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terror list suspect shot dead at Orly airport

Infinite Chaos said:
How has he gotten so far before being shot and how could he approach a GROUP of soldiers to then escape with one of their weapons?


  • The man was involved in an earlier shooting after being stopped at a checkpoint from which he escaped.
  • He approached a group of soldiers and sized one of their weapons.
  • He then escaped as far away as a nearby shop before being shot dead.

Some very worrying details of basic security competence here.
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It is amusing. OMG an euro incident (ONE). Data - in the last 10 years they average 30 per year. Here in the USA a smaller population there are 20000 murders per year. One every 15 mins, EVERY 15 mins. Dismemberments every day on our cop show tv. And we go pantywaist about the dreaded Muslims!!! Don't we see how silly it all is???
 
truthatallcost said:
Thank God that the last few terrorists in France have been bumbling idiots, instead of the well armed and prepared ones present in the Charlie Hebdo attack.
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Even having bumbling terrorists is too much however I'd like to find out more about how he got away from a road stop where he shot his pellet gun.

YorkshirePete said:
It is amusing. OMG an euro incident (ONE). Data - in the last 10 years they average 30 per year. Here in the USA a smaller population there are 20000 murders per year. One every 15 mins, EVERY 15 mins. Dismemberments every day on our cop show tv. And we go pantywaist about the dreaded Muslims!!! Don't we see how silly it all is???
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It's a discussion site and I wanted to discuss...

As a European, we've seen plenty of these and I expect our various security forces to do a little better than I believe I am reading about today.
 
truthatallcost said:
Thank God that the last few terrorists in France have been bumbling idiots, instead of the well armed and prepared ones present in the Charlie Hebdo attack.
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Another hand to hero not worried about our 20000 murders and 100000 rapes per year here? Amazing how no mention of the sandy hook and Charlestown white boys? A hoot
 
YorkshirePete said:
Another hand to hero not worried about our 20000 murders and 100000 rapes per year here? Amazing how no mention of the sandy hook and Charlestown white boys? A hoot
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There's always someone who must mention the US' problems with violence on any thread in the Europe sub forum. As if the violence here somehow makes Europeans safer. :doh

I guess I can point out the violence and rape numbers from South Africa now, in order to make the US look good by comparison? But then again, I wouldn't want to stoop to your level :D
 
truthatallcost said:
Thank God that the last few terrorists in France have been bumbling idiots, instead of the well armed and prepared ones present in the Charlie Hebdo attack.
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............or Bataclan and surroundings, actually master-minded by IS.

But yeah, even if any single one is one too many, here's hoping that the prevalence of bumbling idiots shows to be a trend.
 
truthatallcost said:
There's always someone who must mention the US' problems with violence on any thread in the Europe sub forum. As if the violence here somehow makes Europeans safer. :doh

I guess I can point out the violence and rape numbers from South Africa now, in order to make the US look good by comparison? But then again, I wouldn't want to stoop to your level :D
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Where you are making a pertinent point in the first paragraph of your post, such comparisons will however keep arising as long as you and your ilk exploit European occurrences of this and other nature to serve what is basically a US agenda. Namely that of you and those of similar persuasion to pursue the stance of "we want no Muslim refugees in the US" and doing it on the back of Europeans, by having a carrion feast on any tragedy happening over here.

So, with your behavior being well documented here by now, a bit less of the hypocrisy if you please.

Apart from all of which the argument stands that you have enough to do in addressing the comparative lack of safety back home. Which, whether you like it or not, remains far less pronounced in Europe overall than in the US.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
When you are in a squad, you watch each other's back. When you are patrolling alone, you keep very alert and try not to put yourself into a position where you can be blindsided.

I accept they stopped the guy, that bit was good however we're not talking ordinary members of the public with guns here. Soldiers have training and should be prepared for their roles and situations.
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I pass through Antwerp central Station frequently. There are soldiers on patrol there. The station is often crowded and I often pass within a couple of feet of a squad. I could easily make a grab for a gun. I doubt if American soldiers would have done any better than the French soldiers.
 
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Sounds like another sad instance of the Islamophobia being whipped up by fascists who follow the likes of Wilders and Le Pen. When will this hating ever stop? We in the West provoke these people to the breaking point with our persecution of Muslims, and then when they finally lash out in self-defense, we condemn them as "jihadists."

Violence never solves anything. Nuclear arms are not for hugging. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. And Islam is the religion of peace.
 
matchlight said:
Sounds like another sad instance of the Islamophobia being whipped up by fascists who follow the likes of Wilders and Le Pen. When will this hating ever stop? We in the West provoke these people to the breaking point with our persecution of Muslims, and then when they finally lash out in self-defense, we condemn them as "jihadists."

Violence never solves anything. Nuclear arms are not for hugging. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. And Islam is the religion of peace.
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WTH are you talking about. Who is whipping up Islamophobia?
 
zyzygy said:
Ok, I doubt if soldiers from any country could have done better.
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OK, remember that my concerns go right back to him shooting a policeman at a traffic stop. Why was there no heightened alert (not forgetting there are Royals in Paris) which means all military and police would and should be even more aware than normal.

This is not about crude nationalism - it's about basic competence and alert status. We're not talking about the equivalent of a pizza being delivered by a gunman to relaxed soldiers in Northern Ireland but a patrol of specialist soldiers.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
OK, remember that my concerns go right back to him shooting a policeman at a traffic stop. Why was there no heightened alert (not forgetting there are Royals in Paris) which means all military and police would and should be even more aware than normal.

This is not about crude nationalism - it's about basic competence and alert status. We're not talking about the equivalent of a pizza being delivered by a gunman to relaxed soldiers in Northern Ireland but a patrol of specialist soldiers.
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I don't know whether by those you mean the routine patrol that the guy peppered first of all or the bunch that took him out at the airport.

But the prior lot were "simple" police and at least one of the soldiers at the airport was a reservist.

France has called in a load of those since it hardly has sufficient numbers of 1er RPIMa (sort of the equivalent to SAS) to patrol practically the whole country, like it's attempting to do.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
OK, remember that my concerns go right back to him shooting a policeman at a traffic stop. Why was there no heightened alert (not forgetting there are Royals in Paris) which means all military and police would and should be even more aware than normal.

This is not about crude nationalism - it's about basic competence and alert status. We're not talking about the equivalent of a pizza being delivered by a gunman to relaxed soldiers in Northern Ireland but a patrol of specialist soldiers.
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Reading around it doesn't seem like a planned terror attack. It started when he was pulled over for a traffic offence, and during questioning, shot a cop with an airpistol/bb gun. Never sensible. He then drove off in a hail of bullets, abandoned his car, along with a bloodied tshirt, hijacked another, (BB guns are realistic) drove to the airport and attacked the nearest heavily armed soldier he found among all the unarmed civilians...
 
Infinite Chaos said:
When you are in a squad, you watch each other's back. When you are patrolling alone, you keep very alert and try not to put yourself into a position where you can be blindsided.

I accept they stopped the guy, that bit was good however we're not talking ordinary members of the public with guns here. Soldiers have training and should be prepared for their roles and situations.
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Soldiers do receive weapons training, but many of those pulling incidental guard duty in situations like this are not specifically trained for it. The first time I pulled guard duty early in my military career. I was handed a loaded automatic carbine and given no more instruction than to shoot anyone who approached within 12 feet of me and did not halt instantly at my command. You can bet I was nervous when an unknown Warrant Officer from another unit approached me on the darkened airfield. He halted instantly at my command and very carefully showed his ID while I kept my finger on the trigger and called the Officer of the Guard. I don't know what I would have done if he had moved.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Reading around it doesn't seem like a planned terror attack. It started when he was pulled over for a traffic offence, and during questioning, shot a cop with an airpistol/bb gun. Never sensible. He then drove off in a hail of bullets, abandoned his car, along with a bloodied tshirt, hijacked another, (BB guns are realistic) drove to the airport and attacked the nearest heavily armed soldier he found among all the unarmed civilians...
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Yes, this is becoming clearer. Even the original page I linked has changed further and further as more facts come out.

Chagos said:
I don't know whether by those you mean the routine patrol that the guy peppered first of all or the bunch that took him out at the airport.

But the prior lot were "simple" police and at least one of the soldiers at the airport was a reservist.

France has called in a load of those since it hardly has sufficient numbers of 1er RPIMa (sort of the equivalent to SAS) to patrol practically the whole country, like it's attempting to do.
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I read that the traffic stop was regular police but my initial reading around yesterday suggested they were part of an elite unit - though not quite their SAS equivalent. This is the reason for my surprise.


JohnPaul said:
Soldiers do receive weapons training, but many of those pulling incidental guard duty in situations like this are not specifically trained for it.
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Yeah, many of us have done guard duty, it's an inescapable part of serving.

JohnPaul said:
The first time I pulled guard duty early in my military career. I was handed a loaded automatic carbine and given no more instruction than to shoot anyone who approached within 12 feet of me and did not halt instantly at my command. You can bet I was nervous when an unknown Warrant Officer from another unit approached me on the darkened airfield. He halted instantly at my command and very carefully showed his ID while I kept my finger on the trigger and called the Officer of the Guard. I don't know what I would have done if he had moved.
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We tended to get pretty specific rules and guides to go by in Northern Ireland; admittedly a very different environment from an airport in a peaceful country as opposed to a strife torn province where you wouldn't let anyone come close to you or your team like this guy got to.
 
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