The reasons for Islamophobia in Europe are due to stupidity and over exposure

Peter King · Mar 13, 2017

Yes, the true reasons for Islamophobia has not a lot to do with an Islamic tsunami as Geert Wilders and others have stated, it mostly has to do with Europeans (and yes, that also includes the Dutch) being effing morons when it comes to Muslim statistics.

Evil Islamophobia architects have pulled the wool over the already gullible and stupid European heads by their over exposure of Muslim issue in most European countries. But if we have a top 10 of stupid Europeans, the French are top of the bill.

The idiotic French were asked in an opinion poll (in 2016) to tell the polling people 2 estimates (among others).

First question was:

Out of every 100 people, about how many do you think are Muslim

the second question was:

Now thinking about 2020, out of every 100 people, about how many do you think will be Muslim

Now comes the way how Muslim exposure/Marine Le Pen and her hatemongering crowd/stupidity among the French when it comes to their own population, to the ugly surface.

The French answered the question, out of every 100 people, about how many do you think are Muslim with the following estimate/answer:

31%

Which proves how the French have been fooled by their media and their politicians because the actual percentage of Muslims is:

7.5%

Which is a staggering difference of 24%. That means that most French think they are being overrun by Muslims (as Le Pen and Wilders love to claim/proclaim) while in all reality there are 24% less Muslims in France than how many Muslims French people imagine are living in France.

And the second question about how the situation would be in 2020 is equally warped/totally nonsense when it comes to the views of the French, the true estimated number of Muslims in France in 2020 is about 8.3% of their population but the French actually think in 2020 the percentage of their population that has the Islamic faith is 40%.

That means that in stead of 1 in every 12.5 being Muslim, French people think that in 2020 2 out of 5 French people will be Muslim. The difference between reality and imagination/fear has grown from 24% to 31%.

But where the French are worst of all European countries, other Western democracies have been lead to believe equally large percentage of their population are Muslims, even though the reality is much much much different.

In Italy there are 3.7% Muslims but the Italians actually believe that number is 20%. So rather than the actual 1 in 25 Italians being Muslim, Italians think 1 in 5 is Muslim.

Germany isn't much better, Germans believe (undoubtedly through Pegida and groups like it) that 21% of the German population is Muslim, but the reality is that only 5% are Muslim.

Belgians (blame Vlaams Blok and other populists IMHO) think that 23% of their population is Muslim, where the real number is only 7%.

Swedish people (who think 17% is Muslim rather than the actual 4.6%), the Dutch people (who estimate that 19% of our population is Muslim rather than the actual 6%), Spanish people (who estimate 14% of their population as Muslim rather than the actual 2.1%), the Great British people (who estimate the Muslim population to be 15% rather than the actual 4.8%) and Denmark (estimate Muslim population is 15% rather than the actual 4.1%) are all countries who over estimate their Muslims population by more than 10%.

So maybe that is the reason there are so many people with unreasonable fears of a Muslim takeover in Europe, they are being lied to by their populist politicians and they are totally uninformed when it comes to the actual Muslim population in their countries.

And that ignorance of the facts remains when it comes to predicting the Muslim population in 2020, because the people of France, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, Spain, Serbia, Great Britain, Denmark, Hungary, Poland and Norway are overestimating their Muslim population with 10 percentage points.

Koke · Mar 14, 2017

Peter King said:
Yes, the true reasons for Islamophobia has not a lot to do with an Islamic tsunami as Geert Wilders and others have stated, it mostly has to do with Europeans (and yes, that also includes the Dutch) being effing morons when it comes to Muslim statistics.

Evil Islamophobia architects have pulled the wool over the already gullible and stupid European heads by their over exposure of Muslim issue in most European countries. But if we have a top 10 of stupid Europeans, the French are top of the bill.

The idiotic French were asked in an opinion poll (in 2016) to tell the polling people 2 estimates (among others).

First question was:

Out of every 100 people, about how many do you think are Muslim

the second question was:

Now thinking about 2020, out of every 100 people, about how many do you think will be Muslim

Now comes the way how Muslim exposure/Marine Le Pen and her hatemongering crowd/stupidity among the French when it comes to their own population, to the ugly surface.

The French answered the question, out of every 100 people, about how many do you think are Muslim with the following estimate/answer:

31%

Which proves how the French have been fooled by their media and their politicians because the actual percentage of Muslims is:

7.5%

Which is a staggering difference of 24%. That means that most French think they are being overrun by Muslims (as Le Pen and Wilders love to claim/proclaim) while in all reality there are 24% less Muslims in France than how many Muslims French people imagine are living in France.

And the second question about how the situation would be in 2020 is equally warped/totally nonsense when it comes to the views of the French, the true estimated number of Muslims in France in 2020 is about 8.3% of their population but the French actually think in 2020 the percentage of their population that has the Islamic faith is 40%.

That means that in stead of 1 in every 12.5 being Muslim, French people think that in 2020 2 out of 5 French people will be Muslim. The difference between reality and imagination/fear has grown from 24% to 31%.

But where the French are worst of all European countries, other Western democracies have been lead to believe equally large percentage of their population are Muslims, even though the reality is much much much different.

In Italy there are 3.7% Muslims but the Italians actually believe that number is 20%. So rather than the actual 1 in 25 Italians being Muslim, Italians think 1 in 5 is Muslim.

Germany isn't much better, Germans believe (undoubtedly through Pegida and groups like it) that 21% of the German population is Muslim, but the reality is that only 5% are Muslim.

Belgians (blame Vlaams Blok and other populists IMHO) think that 23% of their population is Muslim, where the real number is only 7%.

Swedish people (who think 17% is Muslim rather than the actual 4.6%), the Dutch people (who estimate that 19% of our population is Muslim rather than the actual 6%), Spanish people (who estimate 14% of their population as Muslim rather than the actual 2.1%), the Great British people (who estimate the Muslim population to be 15% rather than the actual 4.8%) and Denmark (estimate Muslim population is 15% rather than the actual 4.1%) are all countries who over estimate their Muslims population by more than 10%.

So maybe that is the reason there are so many people with unreasonable fears of a Muslim takeover in Europe, they are being lied to by their populist politicians and they are totally uninformed when it comes to the actual Muslim population in their countries.

And that ignorance of the facts remains when it comes to predicting the Muslim population in 2020, because the people of France, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, Spain, Serbia, Great Britain, Denmark, Hungary, Poland and Norway are overestimating their Muslim population with 10 percentage points.

Maybe the reason Europeans are incorrect about Muslim population in their countries is not due to ignorance, but due to the fact that their governments actively suppress statistics relating to refugees and middle eastern immigrants.

Also their misconception of how many Muslims there are actually are in their country could be due to the fact that government aid and welfare, for example, are consumed at MUCH HIGHER rates by immigrants from N. Africa and the Middle East than by native Europeans.

Also how it is you came to the conclusion that, because Europeans are wrong about the population of immigrants in their country, they must be retarded xenophobes is a pretty ridiculous conclusion in itself.

Peter King · Mar 14, 2017

Koke said:
Maybe the reason Europeans are incorrect about Muslim population in their countries is not due to ignorance, but due to the fact that their governments actively suppress statistics relating to refugees and middle eastern immigrants.

Also their misconception of how many Muslims there are actually are in their country could be due to the fact that government aid and welfare, for example, are consumed at MUCH HIGHER rates by immigrants from N. Africa and the Middle East than by native Europeans.

Also how it is you came to the conclusion that, because Europeans are wrong about the population of immigrants in their country, they must be retarded xenophobes is a pretty ridiculous conclusion in itself.

I called them stupid, I called them ignorant, I called the populist leaders all kinds of names (in this and other threads) but retarded xenophobes is not something I said/or wrote IMHO.

And I do not think that the government purposely suppresses that statistical data.

Koke · Mar 14, 2017

Peter King said:
I called them stupid, I called them ignorant, I called the populist leaders all kinds of names (in this and other threads) but retarded xenophobes is not something I said/or wrote IMHO.

And I do not think that the government purposely suppresses that statistical data.

I took the quotes off because I realized you would interpret it literally as an "argument" point. I'm exaggerating what you said.

You don't think they purposefully suppress statistical data? What do you think they do?

JohnPaul · Mar 14, 2017

Peter King said:
Yes, the true reasons for Islamophobia has not a lot to do with an Islamic tsunami as Geert Wilders and others have stated, it mostly has to do with Europeans (and yes, that also includes the Dutch) being effing morons when it comes to Muslim statistics.

Evil Islamophobia architects have pulled the wool over the already gullible and stupid European heads by their over exposure of Muslim issue in most European countries. But if we have a top 10 of stupid Europeans, the French are top of the bill.

The idiotic French were asked in an opinion poll (in 2016) to tell the polling people 2 estimates (among others).

First question was:

Out of every 100 people, about how many do you think are Muslim

the second question was:

Now thinking about 2020, out of every 100 people, about how many do you think will be Muslim

Now comes the way how Muslim exposure/Marine Le Pen and her hatemongering crowd/stupidity among the French when it comes to their own population, to the ugly surface.

The French answered the question, out of every 100 people, about how many do you think are Muslim with the following estimate/answer:

31%

Which proves how the French have been fooled by their media and their politicians because the actual percentage of Muslims is:

7.5%

Which is a staggering difference of 24%. That means that most French think they are being overrun by Muslims (as Le Pen and Wilders love to claim/proclaim) while in all reality there are 24% less Muslims in France than how many Muslims French people imagine are living in France.

And the second question about how the situation would be in 2020 is equally warped/totally nonsense when it comes to the views of the French, the true estimated number of Muslims in France in 2020 is about 8.3% of their population but the French actually think in 2020 the percentage of their population that has the Islamic faith is 40%.

That means that in stead of 1 in every 12.5 being Muslim, French people think that in 2020 2 out of 5 French people will be Muslim. The difference between reality and imagination/fear has grown from 24% to 31%.

But where the French are worst of all European countries, other Western democracies have been lead to believe equally large percentage of their population are Muslims, even though the reality is much much much different.

In Italy there are 3.7% Muslims but the Italians actually believe that number is 20%. So rather than the actual 1 in 25 Italians being Muslim, Italians think 1 in 5 is Muslim.

Germany isn't much better, Germans believe (undoubtedly through Pegida and groups like it) that 21% of the German population is Muslim, but the reality is that only 5% are Muslim.

Belgians (blame Vlaams Blok and other populists IMHO) think that 23% of their population is Muslim, where the real number is only 7%.

Swedish people (who think 17% is Muslim rather than the actual 4.6%), the Dutch people (who estimate that 19% of our population is Muslim rather than the actual 6%), Spanish people (who estimate 14% of their population as Muslim rather than the actual 2.1%), the Great British people (who estimate the Muslim population to be 15% rather than the actual 4.8%) and Denmark (estimate Muslim population is 15% rather than the actual 4.1%) are all countries who over estimate their Muslims population by more than 10%.

So maybe that is the reason there are so many people with unreasonable fears of a Muslim takeover in Europe, they are being lied to by their populist politicians and they are totally uninformed when it comes to the actual Muslim population in their countries.

And that ignorance of the facts remains when it comes to predicting the Muslim population in 2020, because the people of France, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, Spain, Serbia, Great Britain, Denmark, Hungary, Poland and Norway are overestimating their Muslim population with 10 percentage points.

It is said that figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Your low percentages are for entire countries, but the percentage of Muslims gathered in big cities is much higher than the average for the entire country. So what kind of lie are you pushing here?

Peter King · Mar 14, 2017

Koke said:
I took the quotes off because I realized you would interpret it literally as an "argument" point. I'm exaggerating what you said.

You don't think they purposefully suppress statistical data? What do you think they do?

Our government for example is not in the business of promoting or suppressing statistical data. We have a bureau for that which is a self standing organization and it is there for everybody to see, the public, the government and businesses.

They make all statistical data public, if political parties or anybody else does not give rumor to that statistical data, the media will not report on it and just the people who are interested in that stuff find out.

But that did not happen here, the data was made public and used in a news segment on the television news of RTL. But as there is so much news (a news tsunami if you want to call it that), if it is not very significant or hugely news worthy, such statistical boring information fizzles out and disappears in the murky waters of statistics.

Peter King · Mar 14, 2017

JohnPaul said:
It is said that figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Your low percentages are for entire countries, but the percentage of Muslims gathered in big cities is much higher than the average for the entire country. So what kind of lie are you pushing here?

I am not pushing any lie, that question was not just asked in big cities, and even in big cities the number of Muslims is not that high. Point is people like pushing the myth of a Muslim tsunami because it increases the perceived danger and that (for politicians) leads into extra votes by the gullible voters who blindly believe what hatred people like Wilders are pushing.

And I know, that can go both way, there will be issues where leftist parties do not want to push the truth because that hurts their electoral power but this huge rift between reality and perceived reality is a curious thing and should be exposed and investigated as to why people have such wildly exaggerated ideas about how many Muslims there are in most EU countries.

PeteEU · Mar 14, 2017

Koke said:
Maybe the reason Europeans are incorrect about Muslim population in their countries is not due to ignorance, but due to the fact that their governments actively suppress statistics relating to refugees and middle eastern immigrants.

They dont suppress statistics. Crime statistics are listed with country of origin, at least in Denmark and other places.

Also their misconception of how many Muslims there are actually are in their country could be due to the fact that government aid and welfare, for example, are consumed at MUCH HIGHER rates by immigrants from N. Africa and the Middle East than by native Europeans.

No. Misconceptions are based on media and word of mouth, aka Facebook these days. For example, I have a few friends who are anti-Muslim these days and it is purely based on Facebook. Just today she shared a warning about a guy who beat up a teenager at a school. The article claims he is a Muslim (not confirmed as they dont know who he is...). I find it odd that she does not share the tons of other assaults and crimes committed daily by non-Muslims in Denmark. Another good example, was that in Denmark there has been a rash of incidents where someone has thrown off concrete blocks from bridges onto highways, causing havoc and near deaths. When it started over a year ago, she was pushing on Facebook that it was Muslim immigrants aka Syrians doing it. A month or so later they finally caught one of the people behind the trend.. a Dane.. Silence.. The attacks continue to this day and if they catch one Muslim doing it, I will bet ya that she will be all over it, while ignoring the fact that Danes have done it as well. Now if we look at this case, how did the media handle it? Of course when the incidents were happening it was front page news, but when the first guy was caught... buried inside the newspaper. Coverage was minimal. This is how misconceptions start.

The media posts every time a Muslim or immigrant does something wrong, but does not do the same when it is not a Muslim or immigrant. That will quickly create a massive misconception that for example, most crime is done by immigrants. It is hard to change, even with official crime statistics.

It has become so bad, that quite a lot of people believe that most crimes are done by Muslims or a Muslim / Eastern European hybrid. Its not true of course, but that is thanks to media coverage and of course fake news on Facebook.

Also how it is you came to the conclusion that, because Europeans are wrong about the population of immigrants in their country, they must be retarded xenophobes is a pretty ridiculous conclusion in itself.

Actually it is not a wrong conclusion. It is how the world works. People dont have the time or energy to dig deep into politics.. they have a life to live. That means they rely on headlines, word of mouth and 15 seconds TV viewing basically. Many Americans are even dumber btw, and it gets even worse in the 3rd world where their stupidity makes them believe in witches and crazy stuff.

Peter King · Mar 14, 2017

PeteEU said:
They dont suppress statistics. Crime statistics are listed with country of origin, at least in Denmark and other places.

No. Misconceptions are based on media and word of mouth, aka Facebook these days. For example, I have a few friends who are anti-Muslim these days and it is purely based on Facebook. Just today she shared a warning about a guy who beat up a teenager at a school. The article claims he is a Muslim (not confirmed as they dont know who he is...). I find it odd that she does not share the tons of other assaults and crimes committed daily by non-Muslims in Denmark. Another good example, was that in Denmark there has been a rash of incidents where someone has thrown off concrete blocks from bridges onto highways, causing havoc and near deaths. When it started over a year ago, she was pushing on Facebook that it was Muslim immigrants aka Syrians doing it. A month or so later they finally caught one of the people behind the trend.. a Dane.. Silence.. The attacks continue to this day and if they catch one Muslim doing it, I will bet ya that she will be all over it, while ignoring the fact that Danes have done it as well. Now if we look at this case, how did the media handle it? Of course when the incidents were happening it was front page news, but when the first guy was caught... buried inside the newspaper. Coverage was minimal. This is how misconceptions start.

The media posts every time a Muslim or immigrant does something wrong, but does not do the same when it is not a Muslim or immigrant. That will quickly create a massive misconception that for example, most crime is done by immigrants. It is hard to change, even with official crime statistics.

It has become so bad, that quite a lot of people believe that most crimes are done by Muslims or a Muslim / Eastern European hybrid. Its not true of course, but that is thanks to media coverage and of course fake news on Facebook.

Actually it is not a wrong conclusion. It is how the world works. People dont have the time or energy to dig deep into politics.. they have a life to live. That means they rely on headlines, word of mouth and 15 seconds TV viewing basically. Many Americans are even dumber btw, and it gets even worse in the 3rd world where their stupidity makes them believe in witches and crazy stuff.

The US is not that much better, they have stated in that opinion poll that there are 17% Muslims in the US rather than the actual 1%.

PeteEU · Mar 14, 2017

Peter King said:
The US is not that much better, they have stated in that opinion poll that there are 17% Muslims in the US rather than the actual 1%.

Historically it has happened as well. One could argue that the "hatred towards Jews" historically was nothing but a massive miss-information campaign by certain people.. usually for economic reasons. Over time the view took hold and Jews were universally prosecuted because of this.

Case in point. French, British and Spanish kings throughout history loaned money from Jews to fund their wars, and when they did not want to pay it back, they started a campaign against Jews.

But does not have to be Jews.. Knights Templar. Look at what happened to them when the powers at be wanted the Templars wealth..

Chagos · Mar 14, 2017

Koke said:
Maybe the reason Europeans are incorrect about Muslim population in their countries is not due to ignorance, but due to the fact that their governments actively suppress statistics relating to refugees and middle eastern immigrants.

wrong. Or, better said, pics or it isn't happening.:lol:

Also their misconception of how many Muslims there are actually are in their country could be due to the fact that government aid and welfare, for example, are consumed at MUCH HIGHER rates by immigrants from N. Africa and the Middle East than by native Europeans.

wrong again (see above)

Also how it is you came to the conclusion that, because Europeans are wrong about the population of immigrants in their country, they must be retarded xenophobes is a pretty ridiculous conclusion in itself.

wrong in that the premise was not made wrt everything, ony wrt many Europeans being ill-informed on actual immigrant figures and doing little to decrease their own level of ignorance.

Chagos · Mar 14, 2017

JohnPaul said:
It is said that figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Your low percentages are for entire countries, but the percentage of Muslims gathered in big cities is much higher than the average for the entire country. So what kind of lie are you pushing here?

More importantly, what are you trying to push?

1) Your claim of "true" figures being suppressed is nothing more than that, a claim.

2) Whether there's a higher level of Muslims in hick town or metropolita has nothing to do with the general misjudgement of people over actual figures.

3) Quite apart from the fact that on an overall European scale, xenophobia is far more pronounced in sparsely populated areas where people never get to see an immigrant in their whole life, than in metropolitan areas where people actually know what they're talking about (by seeing and knowing immigrants).

Koke · Mar 14, 2017

Chagos said:
wrong. Or, better said, pics or it isn't happening.:lol:
wrong again (see above)
wrong in that the premise was not made wrt everything, ony wrt many Europeans being ill-informed on actual immigrant figures and doing little to decrease their own level of ignorance.

I'm not sure what proof you'd like me to provide. I can provide crime statistics based on country of origin for like the Netherlands, for example, but not france.

France does not allow data to be collected based on ethnicity.

Koke · Mar 14, 2017

PeteEU said:
They dont suppress statistics. Crime statistics are listed with country of origin, at least in Denmark and other places.

No. Misconceptions are based on media and word of mouth, aka Facebook these days. For example, I have a few friends who are anti-Muslim these days and it is purely based on Facebook. Just today she shared a warning about a guy who beat up a teenager at a school. The article claims he is a Muslim (not confirmed as they dont know who he is...). I find it odd that she does not share the tons of other assaults and crimes committed daily by non-Muslims in Denmark. Another good example, was that in Denmark there has been a rash of incidents where someone has thrown off concrete blocks from bridges onto highways, causing havoc and near deaths. When it started over a year ago, she was pushing on Facebook that it was Muslim immigrants aka Syrians doing it. A month or so later they finally caught one of the people behind the trend.. a Dane.. Silence.. The attacks continue to this day and if they catch one Muslim doing it, I will bet ya that she will be all over it, while ignoring the fact that Danes have done it as well. Now if we look at this case, how did the media handle it? Of course when the incidents were happening it was front page news, but when the first guy was caught... buried inside the newspaper. Coverage was minimal. This is how misconceptions start.

The media posts every time a Muslim or immigrant does something wrong, but does not do the same when it is not a Muslim or immigrant. That will quickly create a massive misconception that for example, most crime is done by immigrants. It is hard to change, even with official crime statistics.

It has become so bad, that quite a lot of people believe that most crimes are done by Muslims or a Muslim / Eastern European hybrid. Its not true of course, but that is thanks to media coverage and of course fake news on Facebook.

Actually it is not a wrong conclusion. It is how the world works. People dont have the time or energy to dig deep into politics.. they have a life to live. That means they rely on headlines, word of mouth and 15 seconds TV viewing basically. Many Americans are even dumber btw, and it gets even worse in the 3rd world where their stupidity makes them believe in witches and crazy stuff.

France is one country that doesn't allow information to be collected based on country of origin or ethnicity. There are other places (Sweden for example) where there have been cases where the government does suppress stories or information from being leaked to the public but France is obviously a much more provable example to start with.

Additionally, the reason people are do disproportionately discontented with these economic migrants coming into places like Germany and Sweden is because these people disproportionately collect a **** ton of government and aid and commit a disproportionate amount of crime when compared to the people in their host country.

Crime Statistics
https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf

Prison Population Statistics
CBS StatLine - Gedetineerden; geslacht, leeftijd en herkomstgroepering

Unemployment Statistics
https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf

Welfare Benefit Statistics
https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf

Chagos · Mar 14, 2017

Koke said:
I'm not sure what proof you'd like me to provide. I can provide crime statistics based on country of origin for like the Netherlands, for example, but not france.

France does not allow data to be collected based on ethnicity.

Either you're not paying much attention to your own posts, or you're trying to intentionally deflect.

You made three claims, substantiated none and crime was not a part of any of the three.

Go back and read your post # 2, the one I responded to.

Koke · Mar 14, 2017

Chagos said:
Either you're not paying much attention to your own posts, or you're trying to intentionally deflect.

You made three claims, substantiated none and crime was not a part of any of the three.

Go back and read your post # 2, the one I responded to.

Well no. I said that there are countries who actively suppress stats and i gave you an example. Also linked about statistics to welfare and unemployment in post above.

The comment saying that Europeans are intimidated or scared or unhappy with mass immigration is not objectively provable without polling the entire country or something, lol. You'll find certain parts of a country are more content with mass immigration than others so again this is just a subjective point. I never said my view was objective I just said drawing the conclusion that Europeans are xenophobic or scared of immigrants irrationally as a blanket statement (citing no evidence other than many Europeans are wrong about the amount of Muslims in their country) is a ridiculous conclusion to come to.

Bring me back stats which contradict welfare consumption by immigrants. Riddle me how France DOES NOT suppress collecting information based on ethnicity or group (they do). Explain to me how you can possible come to conclusion that, because Europeans are wrong about the numbers of Muslims in their country, directly translates to the fact they are somehow xenophobic.

Chagos · Mar 14, 2017

Just to address what I find can be scrutinied

Koke said:
~...............The comment saying that Europeans are intimidated or scared or unhappy with mass immigration is not objectively provable without polling the entire country or something, lol.

Agreed. But on that pretext we can also forget any poll whatsoever.

You'll find certain parts of a country are more content with mass immigration than others so again this is just a subjective point. I never said my view was objective I just said drawing the conclusion that Europeans are xenophobic or scared of immigrants irrationally as a blanket statement (citing no evidence other than many Europeans are wrong about the amount of Muslims in their country) is a ridiculous conclusion to come to.

I don't recall Europeans being broad brushed as overall xenophobic like that at all. If there were a correlation in ANY poll along the lines that the same people that show themselves to be xenophobic are also the ones least informed on the number of actual immigrants, then the case could be made.

For those.

Bring me back stats which contradict welfare consumption by immigrants.

Why should I, I didn't make any claims over it.

You did so YOU bring the stats!

Riddle me how France DOES NOT.........~

No! Same reason.

As to the rest of that last paragraph, already covered.

To summarize:

You made three claims in one post and none of them have been substantiated, not even after having been challenged. What you followed with was and is a gish gallop designed to deflect from your original claims and if you want to continue in that pattern, you'll have to do it with someone else.

Koke · Mar 14, 2017

Chagos said:
Just to address what I find can be scrutinied Agreed. But on that pretext we can also forget any poll whatsoever. I don't recall Europeans being broad brushed as overall xenophobic like that at all. If there were a correlation in ANY poll along the lines that the same people that show themselves to be xenophobic are also the ones least informed on the number of actual immigrants, then the case could be made.

For those.
Why should I, I didn't make any claims over it.

You did so YOU bring the stats!

No! Same reason.

As to the rest of that last paragraph, already covered.

To summarize:

You made three claims in one post and none of them have been substantiated, not even after having been challenged. What you followed with was and is a gish gallop designed to deflect from your original claims and if you want to continue in that pattern, you'll have to do it with someone else.

Christ man I linked these statistics in a post above I'm not sure if you didn't see or read it but I CLEARLY stated as much....

Unemployment Statistics
https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf

Welfare Benefit Statistics
https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf

As for the suppression of stats...

https://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitori...mes/Ethnic_statistics_and_data_protection.pdf

If you would actually read my other posts you would see I've linked to these things and it would save you a lot of your own time.

I've got to go for quite a few hours but I'm willing to debate this more later.

Chagos · Mar 14, 2017

Koke said:
Christ man I linked these statistics in a post above I'm not sure if you didn't see or read it but I CLEARLY stated as much....

Unemployment Statistics
https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf

Welfare Benefit Statistics
https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf

As for the suppression of stats...

https://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitori...mes/Ethnic_statistics_and_data_protection.pdf

If you would actually read my other posts you would see I've linked to these things and it would save you a lot of your own time.

I've got to go for quite a few hours but I'm willing to debate this more later.

Okay, I don't have time either to work my way thru reams and reams of pdf files but I'll take your word for it.

I see though that unemployment and welfare are stats for The Netherlands so that may be conclusive for one country.

Anycase, I'm done here, seeing how I'm as little prepared to go thru the statistics of every European country to show that...........

claim 1: figures are NOT suppressed thruout Europe
claim 2: aid and welfare are NOT consumed at a higher level by immigrants (than by locals)
claim 3: was already addressed by me

.........as you are to link to the relevant passages that might make those claims (1 and 2) true.

JohnPaul · Mar 14, 2017

Peter King said:
I am not pushing any lie, that question was not just asked in big cities, and even in big cities the number of Muslims is not that high. Point is people like pushing the myth of a Muslim tsunami because it increases the perceived danger and that (for politicians) leads into extra votes by the gullible voters who blindly believe what hatred people like Wilders are pushing.

And I know, that can go both way, there will be issues where leftist parties do not want to push the truth because that hurts their electoral power but this huge rift between reality and perceived reality is a curious thing and should be exposed and investigated as to why people have such wildly exaggerated ideas about how many Muslims there are in most EU countries.

If I lived in a Paris suburb and saw more than a third Muslims every day and growing rapidly, and you told me it was only 7 percent, I would call you a liar. I never met my French grandmother, but I would give you an extra kick in the butt just for her. I don't want my neighbor to be taught from early childhood that I am an evil tool of Satan and should be killed. I don't want him to be taught that my daughters are whores of Satan and it is OK to rape them. If he doesn't try to do it himself, his sons will.

Peter King · Mar 14, 2017

JohnPaul said:
If I lived in a Paris suburb and saw more than a third Muslims every day and growing rapidly, and you told me it was only 7 percent, I would call you a liar. I never met my French grandmother, but I would give you an extra kick in the butt just for her. I don't want my neighbor to be taught from early childhood that I am an evil tool of Satan and should be killed. I don't want him to be taught that my daughters are whores of Satan and it is OK to rape them. If he doesn't try to do it himself, his sons will.

Yes, because Paris is the only part of France that there is. People sadly often think with other parts of their bodies instead of with their brains.

And IMHO most Muslims do not hold to the views you proclaim (at least not the ones who live in Europe)

The reasons for Islamophobia in Europe are due to stupidity and over exposure

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