Scottish Indy Ref part two.

Sturgeon calls for second independence vote - BBC News

Sturgeon calls for a second referendum between Autumn 2018 /2019 spring.
Should be interesting to see how this one goes. I expect them to vote yes this time however if the post Brexit economy does ok then it could go either way. Middle class Scotland may still be reluctant to take the plunge into the unknown.

Higgins86 said:

Sturgeon calls for second independence vote - BBC News

Sturgeon calls for a second referendum between Autumn 2018 /2019 spring.
Should be interesting to see how this one goes. I expect them to vote yes this time however if the post Brexit economy does ok then it could go either way. Middle class Scotland may still be reluctant to take the plunge into the unknown.

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Didn't stop the Brexit vote. I think the Brexit vote just increased sentiment the rest of the UK does not care about Scotland.

Higgins86 said:

Sturgeon calls for second independence vote - BBC News

Sturgeon calls for a second referendum between Autumn 2018 /2019 spring.
Should be interesting to see how this one goes. I expect them to vote yes this time however if the post Brexit economy does ok then it could go either way. Middle class Scotland may still be reluctant to take the plunge into the unknown.

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She is a little like the liberals in being a bad looser.

Carjosse said:

Didn't stop the Brexit vote. I think the Brexit vote just increased sentiment the rest of the UK does not care about Scotland.

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But the brexit vote was never going to affect what currency we used, a lot of middle class Scots want nothing to do with the Euro.

Higgins86 said:

But the brexit vote was never going to affect what currency we used, a lot of middle class Scots want nothing to do with the Euro.

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I think Scotland could very easily create a Scottish pound and just peg it to the British pound or Euro. Switzerland did that till very recently.

Higgins86 said:

Sturgeon calls for second independence vote - BBC News

Sturgeon calls for a second referendum between Autumn 2018 /2019 spring.
Should be interesting to see how this one goes. I expect them to vote yes this time however if the post Brexit economy does ok then it could go either way. Middle class Scotland may still be reluctant to take the plunge into the unknown.

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What a ****in joke. I think she, the little cranky, will invoke a call to referendum on any passing whim.

Higgins86 said:

Sturgeon calls for a second referendum between Autumn 2018 /2019 spring.
Should be interesting to see how this one goes. I expect them to vote yes this time however if the post Brexit economy does ok then it could go either way. Middle class Scotland may still be reluctant to take the plunge into the unknown.

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I think you've missed a key point; Sturgeon is trying to get the independence referendum in before the Brexit negotiations are complete, let alone before we know what the fall out will be of us actually leaving. The whole point is to play on the fears of exaggerated worse case scenarios rather than having to reply on what is likely to be a much more boring reality. It's blatant dishonesty so I hope that, assuming it gets through the Scottish parliament, the UK government has the confidence to say "Yes, but wait until after Brexit".

Carjosse said:

I think Scotland could very easily create a Scottish pound and just peg it to the British pound or Euro. Switzerland did that till very recently.

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We wont be in the EU anymore though so there is no way they will be allowed to join the EU while still being financially tied to London.

Higgins86 said:

Sturgeon calls for second independence vote - BBC News

Sturgeon calls for a second referendum between Autumn 2018 /2019 spring.
Should be interesting to see how this one goes. I expect them to vote yes this time however if the post Brexit economy does ok then it could go either way. Middle class Scotland may still be reluctant to take the plunge into the unknown.

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Passing Section 30 first, methinks. Then we can all speculate.

joG said:

She is a little like the liberals in being a bad looser.

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You're a little like the conservatives in being a bad speller.

Good luck to them. I do hope Scotland decides to remain in the EU and leave the UK, but that's just an emotional response. I think it's entirely up to the Scots to decide their own future. Don't be bullied by the English, don't assume Europe will rally to your support. Go for it, have the balls and the ovaries to ditch a union in which you've never really been a major player.

Once upon a time, during most of the 19th and 20th centuries, the Scots and the English shared a worldview, a political culture and an economic commonality. That's no longer the case.

The English and Welsh have decided where their hearts lie, and that's in a very different place to where the Northern Irish and the Scots have seen theirs. Let's hear from the English and Welsh just exactly why the Scots ought to stick with them. What is the argument for the Union exactly? I don't see it.

Carjosse said:

I think Scotland could very easily create a Scottish pound and just peg it to the British pound or Euro. Switzerland did that till very recently.

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There is separate Scottish currency, printed by Scottish banks. I think it's just another representation of British sterling, though, not a Scottish pound.

joG said:

She is a little like the liberals in being a bad looser.

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That's your take? Did you know that every district in Scotland voted to stay in Europe? That was one reason the independence vote failed- the assurance that Britain would stay in Europe.

Grand Mal said:

There is separate Scottish currency, printed by Scottish banks. I think it's just another representation of British sterling, though, not a Scottish pound.

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The ability to print banknotes is not the same thing as having a separate currency. Just FYI. Scotland can have their own currency and peg it to the Vietnamese dong if they wish, and there's nothing the vietnamese could do to stop them. I suspect in the long term that Scotland will do better with a currency pegged to the Euro rather than the Pound, but time will tell.

Andalublue said:

The ability to print banknotes is not the same thing as having a separate currency. Just FYI. Scotland can have their own currency and peg it to the Vietnamese dong if they wish, and there's nothing the vietnamese could do to stop them. I suspect in the long term that Scotland will do better with a currency pegged to the Euro rather than the Pound, but time will tell.

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True that. In Cuba we used a peso pegged to the US dollar- they called it the 'convertible peso'.

Carjosse said:

Didn't stop the Brexit vote. I think the Brexit vote just increased sentiment the rest of the UK does not care about Scotland.

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Actually it's pretty much just England that doesn't care about the rest of the UK. England, London excluded, is the only part of the UK that voted majority leave.

And it is looking increasingly likely that they're going to wind up alone, as a consequence of that decision.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Actually it's pretty much just England that doesn't care about the rest of the UK. England, London excluded, is the only part of the UK that voted majority leave.

And it is looking increasingly likely that they're going to wind up alone, as a consequence of that decision.

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I understand why Londoners want to dissociate themselves from the rest of England after the Brexit vote, but it's relevant to point out that ALL of England's major cities voted to remain, with the exception of Birmingham. England was split, Scotland was not; they voted remain in every single electoral district.

Theresa May's hectoring the Scots about "politics isn't a game" virtually guarantees a split, just to get away from her, despite the appalling economic outlook.

Manc Skipper said:

Theresa May's hectoring the Scots about "politics isn't a game" virtually guarantees a split, just to get away from her, despite the appalling economic outlook.

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May is caught between a rock and a hard place. Let's be honest here, Cranky is looking for any exit to call a referendum, so it's immaterial how she is treated by the UK government. Brexit or no Brexit the SNP would be stoking the fires of division until the vote goes their way.

I'm curious about Sturgeon's timing, on one hand it's obvious that any British govt does not want the added complication of a Scottish referendum while Brexit negotiations are in full swing. Also I remember some representatives of the EU saying that Scotland would have to apply from outside so this isn't going to work. Finally, stats show a very small margin either way of victory if a referendum were to happen soon.

On the other hand, getting a public smackdown from Theresa May serves to stoke that "ruled from Westminster" feeling (echoes of "ruled from Brussels?") that could push independence support into double digits if the referendum is held once wed are out of the EU.

Whatever happens, I worry that much of the govt position is driven by a vocal "Brexit at any cost" group of MPs and members of the public.

Grand Mal said:

That's your take? Did you know that every district in Scotland voted to stay in Europe? That was one reason the independence vote failed- the assurance that Britain would stay in Europe.

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I did not know it was every district, but I do remember it was a little under 65%.

Who assured the Scots the UK would stay in? Nobody knew at that point and everyone knew it was yet unknown. Of course, people did probably presume.

joG said:

I did not know it was every district, but I do remember it was a little under 65%.

Who assured the Scots the UK would stay in? Nobody knew at that point and everyone knew it was yet unknown. Of course, people did probably presume.

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all 32 regions of Scotland voted to remain in Scotland for the EU referendum ... Scotland is not a region of the UK or England the UK is made up of 4 countries. i am here to give some facts so people can understand why the UK is falling apart, during the last referendum the unionist promised Scotland federalism/Devo max they have not come even close to delivering Pepsi Max in the past 2 1/2 years and the campaigned on saying the only way we can guarantee EU citizenship was by voting no.
but the real rise in Nationalism is in Scotland is due to a democratic shortfall where in my 47 years Scotland has had over 30 years of governments that we have rejected at the ballot box and we are currently governed by a party with only 1 MP out of 59 Scottish MPs this is not democracy.

We are effectively 2nd class citizens in our own country and ridiculed at every turn, we constantly get the nonsense from the UK that we are to small and to poor to be a Independent country has anyone said the Netherlands or Belgium was to small considering Scotland is bigger than both countries combined and the too poor tag Scotland makes up 14% of the UK's total exports with 8.3% of the population ... Scotland is surrounded by vast reserves of oil and gas around our entire maritime boundaries and substantial amount of gold yet to be extracted ... the North sea alone we have 24 billion barrels of oil that we know of the west coast dwarfs that figure and hasn't been tapped yet here is a graph of our natural resources and then you will understand why the rest of the UK is desperate to keep Scotland in the UK ... we also have Europe's richest fishing grounds and the to poor is nonsense as well

https://www.oilandgaspeople.com/new...ntapped-oil-and-gas-reserves-worth-trillions/

Sturgeon may be about to abandon her bid to remain in the EU - looking instead to take Scotland into the EFTA

A major survey released on Wednesday also shows that two thirds of Scots either want Britain to leave the EU or for the bloc to have reduced powers.

The Scottish Conservatives said the SNP’s plans had “unravelled within 24 hours” in “total confusion”.

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If you hold a referendum, and you do not respect the results of that referendum, then no one will have reason to referendum with you again.

A second referendum cannot overturn the result. All it can do is invalidate all referendums. Make them pointless to hold.
What is the point of having a referendum with a group of people who don't respect referendum results? Time wasting.

It's done. Get on with your life. You had your drama.
Now, declare war or be ridiculed. Pathetic people the SNP. Utterly pathetic. Snivelling.

Baff said:

If you hold a referendum, and you do not respect the results of that referendum, then no one will have reason to referendum with you again.

A second referendum cannot overturn the result. All it can do is invalidate all referendums. Make them pointless to hold.
What is the point of having a referendum with a group of people who don't respect referendum results? Time wasting.

It's done. Get on with your life. You had your drama.
Now, declare war or be ridiculed. Pathetic people the SNP. Utterly pathetic. Snivelling.

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Then the 2016 referendum was a pointless waste of time as a referendum was held in 1975 over membership of Europe...

BBC ON THIS DAY | 6 | 1975: UK embraces Europe in referendum