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Scottish Indy Ref part two.

No one is stopping you emigrating away, if England gets so bad.

I'll have my pick of the dirt cheap unsellable French or Spanish expat ghetto housing when the hundreds of thousands of British pensioners who are no longer entitled to free healthcare or pension increases swarm back to Britain.
 
It would also close Wales and Irelands too. Stormont and whatever Wales calls theirs.

Saving an enormous amount of money for everyone in what is in essence a fifth wheel operation. A bureaucratic replication of existing and operating governmental structures.

Outside of that, not much.
Continued mewling and wailing from assorted separatist movements, who lets face it are never going to stop mewling and wailing whatever anyone does.


In short I expect it to carry on just as it did before they were built. Have they added anything? other than a few billion extra in debt for our children to repay? No. Just more dissent. An extra bunch of idiots arguing over the same decisions.

close our parliament and no british soldier or british establishment will be safe that is not a threat that is a reality you would need to put troops on the street and they would go home in body bags
 
close our parliament and no british soldier or british establishment will be safe that is not a threat that is a reality you would need to put troops on the street and they would go home in body bags

Can we all calm down? Talk of civil war and murdering MPs on the other thread and now shooting British soldiers here.

Ridiculous... it isn't going to happen.
 
Can we all calm down? Talk of civil war and murdering MPs on the other thread and now shooting British soldiers here.

Ridiculous... it isn't going to happen.

if they close down our parliament ... don't bet against it
 
if they close down our parliament ... don't bet against it

Who's going to close down the Scottish parliament? Why introduce a straw man into this?

I'll have my pick of the dirt cheap unsellable French or Spanish expat ghetto housing when the hundreds of thousands of British pensioners who are no longer entitled to free healthcare or pension increases swarm back to Britain.


Those who didn't vote Brexit will probably stay and become naturalised.
 
We should close down the devolved parliaments. They are stupid, expensive and pointless and foment dis-unity and dissent.


A UK referendum is no more straw man than a Scottish referendum. This a time of constitutional change. The people want it. Referendums are delivering it.
The Scots voted for the primacy of Westminster over Holyrood. They want it, they voted for it. Let us give it to them.

It's wrong for only Scottish people to get a vote in who we nation with. Their say is no more important than mine. Injustice must be reciftied.
So let there be more referendums. Let not a minority of power hungry cry babies call the tune to which the whole country dances. Lets name our own.

So yes to second referendum, no to it being "Scottish" and no to the SNP deciding the question.
Lets give as good as we get. Hardball.
 
Spain has already said they wouldn't veto our membership ... leading figures around EU stated Scotland would be fast tracked
I never said anything about a veto, I just said Spain wouldn't make it easy. Take this article which was linked as a reply to the tweet you linked; Scotland would be be at back of queue to join EU if it becomes independent, says Spanish foreign minister | The Independent

If Scotland became an independent country they would certainly be able to (re)join the EU. I'm only challenging the ideas that it would be automatic, fast-tracked or without difficulties and compromises. In fact, it'd be a lot like Brexit in that aspect.
 
Can we all calm down? Talk of civil war and murdering MPs on the other thread and now shooting British soldiers here.

Ridiculous... it isn't going to happen.

Civil war is the normal way these things are resolved. It happened in Ukraine over EU membership.
Happened in Ireland over UK membership.

If democratic process is not to be respected and if it hasn't delivered independence, violent means is the only other alternative at this point.
That or a life times worth of political frustration. Which will boil over from time to time. Anders Brevik in a Saltire.
 
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I never said anything about a veto, I just said Spain wouldn't make it easy. Take this article which was linked as a reply to the tweet you linked; Scotland would be be at back of queue to join EU if it becomes independent, says Spanish foreign minister | The Independent

If Scotland became an independent country they would certainly be able to (re)join the EU. I'm only challenging the ideas that it would be automatic, fast-tracked or without difficulties and compromises. In fact, it'd be a lot like Brexit in that aspect.


I see no reason why they wouldn't be fast tracked. They are in compliance with most EU regs already.
The EU wants to grow, but also it does not want to be seen acting seditiously in the UK, that could get it nuked. Such things are considered an act of war after all.
 
Good for the Tories. Well done.

There are those that if you give an inch would take a mile. To them I offer nothing at all. No mercy, no deals. I will not be reasonable, because they will use that against me and not be reasonable in return.
Not everyone is honest or honourable. Respect them for what they are.

Over half the Scots are my countrymen. I will support them. The other Scots? A secondary concern.
 
Good for the Tories. Well done.

There are those that if you give an inch would take a mile. To them I offer nothing at all. No mercy, no deals. I will not be reasonable, because they will use that against me and not be reasonable in return.
Not everyone is honest or honourable. Respect them for what they are.

Over half the Scots are my countrymen. I will support them. The other Scots? A secondary concern.


latest poll 48% for Indyref2 vote and 44% against ... you can't keep us in the UK against our will
 
I see no reason why they wouldn't be fast tracked. They are in compliance with most EU regs already.
There's no reason it would be specifically fast tracked. There are certainly elements of the process which will be straight forwards for Scotland to meet but that's not the same as anyone in the EU being willing or able to rush the who process through.
 
Sturgeon calls for second independence vote - BBC News

Sturgeon calls for a second referendum between Autumn 2018 /2019 spring.
Should be interesting to see how this one goes. I expect them to vote yes this time however if the post Brexit economy does ok then it could go either way. Middle class Scotland may still be reluctant to take the plunge into the unknown.

I doubt she will get a referendum sanctioned by Westminster. It will be interesting to see what happens if her calls are ignored.

Personally, as much as I like the Scots and Scotland, I'm pretty fed up with the constant silliness at this at this point. If they want to go, let them.
 
For me the Falklands and NI set the precedent. If a minority or even majority of Scots wish to leave the UK, those of them that wish to remain in it will be allowed to be and indeed we will go to war to protect their rights to be.
So I can't give up on millions of my countrymen like that. It is too great a privilege to live amongst people who want to nation with me.

There's no reason it would be specifically fast tracked. There are certainly elements of the process which will be straight forwards for Scotland to meet but that's not the same as anyone in the EU being willing or able to rush the who process through.
I know it doesn't seem like that, but I don't think they deliberately do things slowly.
Scotland will be in compliance with a lot of EU principles already. Box ticking exercises, not, like Turkey for example, having to change loads of stuff at a fundamental level.
They will fit very neatly into the EU, just as neatly as we do.

Certainly Spain has issues with them. But so much of this is all hot air and posture. Spanish factions talk **** as much as British factions do. In all honesty since I don't expect "Scotland" to survive a break up with the UK intact, the point is moot anyway.
None of this is going to occur that way. The plan will not survive first contact with the enemy
 
latest poll 48% for Indyref2 vote and 44% against ... you can't keep us in the UK against our will
nor are we trying. The borders are open, and had their been a majority of support for Scottish Independence in Scotland, you would have had it by now.

There isn't and you don't. You don't speak for the Scottish. They have spoken for themselves.

So you must either divide your country into smaller countries and then referendum locally, emigrate, or win by "other means". IRA style.
 
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Of course it has. I residence in the UK, which at this point Scotland is a part of. Moreover, it's a bit like saying Europe has no say on the UK wanting to leave. Totally ridiculous.

When was anyone in Europe given a say i.e. consulted, over whether the UK would leave the EU? I can assure you, no one asked the Spanish.

Weird.
 
It is too great a privilege to live amongst people who want to nation with me.

I don't think there would be many Scots of whatever stripe that would want to nation with you.
 
Christ, is planet Earth a soap opera all of a sudden?
 
I don't think there would be many Scots of whatever stripe that would want to nation with you.
And in that you would be wrong.
Over half, last time they were asked.

Fewer than I was expecting or had hoped for, but more than the population of the Falkland islands. Which would be enough to give my life for.
A great many Scots take the oath of allegiance. I trust them all with my life.

I would like those who seek independence to get it. And those who do not, not.
I don't see this as a compatible goal with a united Scotland however. I expect that the country is going to break up and I'm OK with that.
 
Guto Bebb 'despondent' after Scotland visit - BBC News

Guto Bebb 'despondent' after Scotland visit

A Wales Office minister has described Scotland as "another country" after a recent trip to Edinburgh.

Aberconwy MP Guto Bebb said he had left feeling "despondent" because it reminded him of Dublin.

That "should be a warning when visiting a city which is a crucial part of the UK", he said.

Scotland's first minister Nicola Sturgeon has announced that she will seek a second referendum on independence.

Mr Bebb, a Conservative party whip, was in the Scottish capital for a British and Irish council meeting.




The meeting brought together the devolved governments from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, as well as the UK and Irish governments.

Writing in the North Wales Weekly News, Mr Bebb said: "We have a huge amount in common with citizens of the Irish Republic, as we do Scotland," including similar television programmes, popular music and "in many ways a shared literature".

But he said "read their papers, listen to talk shows and watch the news and it's clearly another country".
Mr Bebb said leaving Edinburgh made him feel the same way as he does when leaving Dublin.

"For me Dublin is somewhere which is recognisable but very different."

"That is fine in the context of the capital of an independent country but it should be a warning when visiting a city which is a crucial part of the UK.

He added: "The sense of nationhood in Edinburgh is palpable. For a long time it has been satisfied within the UK.

"Is that changing though? My gut feeling is yes and that should be a cause for regret to all of us."

Secretary of State for Wales, Alun Cairns was challenged about his minister's comments on ITV's Peston on Sunday Programme.

He described them as "speculation in order to develop the debate so that everyone in every part of the UK recognizes that we achieve more together".
 
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