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The Netherlands & Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusog [W:39]

Peter King

Peter King

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Netherlands revokes landing rights for Mevlut Cavusoglu | Turkey News | Al Jazeera

Erdogan calls Dutch government 'Nazis' after Turkish foreign minister's plane prevented from landing in Netherlands | The Independent

The issue is that the foreign minister Çavusoglu wanted to hold a political rally for a referendum which is intended to further increase the power of Erdogan.

The Dutch government, after several attempts at a public appearance of Çavusoglu had been cancelled due to either there not being a permit for a rally or the location where the rally was planned refusing to rent the location to the organizers of the Çavusoglu rally.

The Dutch government was planning with the Turkish government of organizing/allowing a rally to take place at home of the consul of Turkey in Rotterdam, when word came that instead of a speech for invited guests, Turkey sources had called upon people to attend the speech at the consul's home so to have an impromptu rally after all against the wishes of the Dutch government.

The Dutch government was already not really willing to allow any campaign rally's for purely Turkish political issues (especially a referendum that would decrease the level of democracy in Turkey by increasing the power of Erdogan) for the simple reasons that it is:

1. a purely internal Turkish issue
2. this Wednesday is our our election so to burden our police force with protecting an already unwelcome guest and a political rally that was bound to cause issues in the Netherlands, was unwanted

But that unwillingness increased after a rally of Çavusoglu in Hamburg where he was clearly seen making the hand signal associated with the Grey Wolves movement from Turkey. The Grey wolves are a far right Turkish Nationalist organization and is suspected in several violent attacks and drugs smuggling, extortion and people smuggling. For a leading government official from Turkey to make a hand gesture in support of the grey wolves in a similar political rally in Hamburg Germany solidified the feelings in the Dutch government that they did not want to have a repeat of such a purely internal Turkish rally in the Netherlands.

But the Dutch government did want to facilitate a private (as a private person, not as a Turkish minister on a campaign rally) visit of Çavusoglu to the home of the Turkish consul in Rotterdam but when they got wind of Turkish calls for Turks in the Netherlands to come to the home of the consul in great numbers to hold a rally there (in a home/built up area that is absolutely not suited for such a rally).

So now the Dutch government has refused landing privileges to the airplane of the Turkish foreign minister Çavusoglu to prevent him coming to Rotterdam at all.

The mayor of Rotterdam has had to make an emergency civil order to appoint three places in Rotterdam where people could protest (one for the pro-Erdogan people, one of the anti-Erdogan people and one for other protesters) and closed off the area (a normal city block) where the home of the Turkish consul is (only allowed people who have legitimate business in that area into that area).

Erdogan blew a gasket and is now calling the Netherlands Nazi remnants and fascists :)lamo which is really rich coming from a de facto fascist like Erdogan).
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Peter King said:
Erdogan blew a gasket and is now calling the Netherlands Nazi remnants and fascists :)lamo which is really rich coming from a de facto fascist like Erdogan).
Click to expand...

Didnt you know, every human being on the planet is a Nazi now.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Peter King said:
Netherlands revokes landing rights for Mevlut Cavusoglu | Turkey News | Al Jazeera

Erdogan calls Dutch government 'Nazis' after Turkish foreign minister's plane prevented from landing in Netherlands | The Independent

The issue is that the foreign minister Çavusoglu wanted to hold a political rally for a referendum which is intended to further increase the power of Erdogan.

The Dutch government, after several attempts at a public appearance of Çavusoglu had been cancelled due to either there not being a permit for a rally or the location where the rally was planned refusing to rent the location to the organizers of the Çavusoglu rally.

The Dutch government was planning with the Turkish government of organizing/allowing a rally to take place at home of the consul of Turkey in Rotterdam, when word came that instead of a speech for invited guests, Turkey sources had called upon people to attend the speech at the consul's home so to have an impromptu rally after all against the wishes of the Dutch government.

The Dutch government was already not really willing to allow any campaign rally's for purely Turkish political issues (especially a referendum that would decrease the level of democracy in Turkey by increasing the power of Erdogan) for the simple reasons that it is:

1. a purely internal Turkish issue
2. this Wednesday is our our election so to burden our police force with protecting an already unwelcome guest and a political rally that was bound to cause issues in the Netherlands, was unwanted

But that unwillingness increased after a rally of Çavusoglu in Hamburg where he was clearly seen making the hand signal associated with the Grey Wolves movement from Turkey. The Grey wolves are a far right Turkish Nationalist organization and is suspected in several violent attacks and drugs smuggling, extortion and people smuggling. For a leading government official from Turkey to make a hand gesture in support of the grey wolves in a similar political rally in Hamburg Germany solidified the feelings in the Dutch government that they did not want to have a repeat of such a purely internal Turkish rally in the Netherlands.

But the Dutch government did want to facilitate a private (as a private person, not as a Turkish minister on a campaign rally) visit of Çavusoglu to the home of the Turkish consul in Rotterdam but when they got wind of Turkish calls for Turks in the Netherlands to come to the home of the consul in great numbers to hold a rally there (in a home/built up area that is absolutely not suited for such a rally).

So now the Dutch government has refused landing privileges to the airplane of the Turkish foreign minister Çavusoglu to prevent him coming to Rotterdam at all.

The mayor of Rotterdam has had to make an emergency civil order to appoint three places in Rotterdam where people could protest (one for the pro-Erdogan people, one of the anti-Erdogan people and one for other protesters) and closed off the area (a normal city block) where the home of the Turkish consul is (only allowed people who have legitimate business in that area into that area).

Erdogan blew a gasket and is now calling the Netherlands Nazi remnants and fascists :)lamo which is really rich coming from a de facto fascist like Erdogan).
Click to expand...

What is difficult about free expression is, when you hate what the other gal has to say. How one acts in this situation tests one's democratic mettle. I know German culture believes in silencing undesirable ideas, though, in a much less open way than in olden times. But it surprises me to see the Dutch resort to suppressing opinions they dislike.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

PoS said:
Didnt you know, every human being on the planet is a Nazi now.
Click to expand...

I think you will find it to be always those whose opinions people dislike that turn out to be fascists.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

joG said:
What is difficult about free expression is, when you hate what the other gal has to say. How one acts in this situation tests one's democratic mettle. I know German culture believes in silencing undesirable ideas, though, in a much less open way than in olden times. But it surprises me to see the Dutch resort to suppressing opinions they dislike.
Click to expand...

This isn't really about expressing opinions they do not like, the Dutch political spectrum goes from far right to the far left, to the extremely religious (Christian) to the very Islamic, to the extreme liberal to the extreme conservative and everything in between that. Green party, Dutch liberals, socialists, social democrats, bible bashing parties, animal welfare party, pirate party and everything in between.

As long as they do not discriminate to the level of inciting racial or religious violence, parties have a pretty much wide open field of expressing whatever they want.

But this is not a Dutch opinion, this is a foreign leader coming to preach to Dutch citizens of foreign descent as to how they have to vote in a referendum that has nothing to do with anything that has anything to do with the Dutch. Especially not when that politician has links to a violent anti-democratic terrorist organization like the black wolves. An organization who's members are under supervision in many European states because of their propensity to violent behavior against people of their own population who do not agree with their right wing extremist views and towards (for example) Kurds.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Peter King said:
Netherlands revokes landing rights for Mevlut Cavusoglu | Turkey News | Al Jazeera

Erdogan calls Dutch government 'Nazis' after Turkish foreign minister's plane prevented from landing in Netherlands | The Independent

The issue is that the foreign minister Çavusoglu wanted to hold a political rally for a referendum which is intended to further increase the power of Erdogan........................~
Click to expand...
Yeah virtually a repeat or copy (same time more or less) of what happened in Germany on the issue of Turkish officials campaigning there.

Turkey?s Erdogan accuses Germany of ?Nazi practices? over rally cancellations | News | DW.COM | 05.03.2017

What the rabid nutters in Ankara don't understand is that the German constitution grants no automatic rights for foreign politicians to campaign on its soil over non-German issues, the issue thus being solely placed in the discretion of the German (federal) government to decide allowing it or not. What they are also seemingly unwilling to comprehend (intentionally one expects, seeing how there's nothing like an external scapegoat to bolster home support) is that the German government has made no ruling on the matter whatsoever, the decision in these particular cases being up to the municipalities in which the possible venues are located.

Pretty much the same thing there in that what had initially been applied for by Turkish officials to be a cultural meeting (with a far smaller number of potential participants) was afterwards changed to a political rally with a potential attendance that the venue simply could not hold.

Despite all of which, as you have also mentioned, rallies COULD AND DID take place in other facilities that fulfilled the necessary criteria both in space, equipment and available security measures.

Thus unveiling the nonsense of suppressing undesirable opinion that both Ankara and post # 3 of this thread falsely claim, as the total idiocy it constitutes.

There's actually method to the madness rather than it constituting total insanity on the side of the Turkish government. Nothing like clamouring over being victimized to garner more support from one's own.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Peter King said:
This isn't really about expressing opinions they do not like, ..................~
Click to expand...
But it's a favourite pet peeve of the poster you're responding to.

As usual an opinion piece corroborated by nothing beyond personal perception and feeling.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Peter King said:
This isn't really about expressing opinions they do not like, the Dutch political spectrum goes from far right to the far left, to the extremely religious (Christian) to the very Islamic, to the extreme liberal to the extreme conservative and everything in between that. Green party, Dutch liberals, socialists, social democrats, bible bashing parties, animal welfare party, pirate party and everything in between.

As long as they do not discriminate to the level of inciting racial or religious violence, parties have a pretty much wide open field of expressing whatever they want.

But this is not a Dutch opinion, this is a foreign leader coming to preach to Dutch citizens of foreign descent as to how they have to vote in a referendum that has nothing to do with anything that has anything to do with the Dutch. Especially not when that politician has links to a violent anti-democratic terrorist organization like the black wolves. An organization who's members are under supervision in many European states because of their propensity to violent behavior against people of their own population who do not agree with their right wing extremist views and towards (for example) Kurds.
Click to expand...

If they vote in the referendum the citizens are as much Turks as Dutch of foreign descent. They are also citizens that require information that the Turk wanted to give them. If Dutch politicians do not like his opinions the free expression thing to do is argue not forbid. When Obama was in Berlin before he was elected he was allowed to talk to the people.

I do not know off hand if there have been similar occasions in Holland, where a foreign politician held a speech publicly. But I suspect that to have happened. Possibly on how he adored the EU. In any event, it is not unheard of for foreigners to give political speeches in public places in the Eu member countries. So preventing this one as the ones in Germany last week are dubious rule of law as well as restrictions on free expression.

My suspicion is that it is about domestic politics surrounding Wilders and the elections.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Chagos said:
Nothing like clamouring over being victimized to garner more support from one's own.
Click to expand...

So the Turkish government is full of Social Justice Warriors?
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

joG said:
If they vote in the referendum the citizens are as much Turks as Dutch of foreign descent. They are also citizens that require information that the Turk wanted to give them. If Dutch politicians do not like his opinions the free expression thing to do is argue not forbid. When Obama was in Berlin before he was elected he was allowed to talk to the people.

I do not know off hand if there have been similar occasions in Holland, where a foreign politician held a speech publicly. But I suspect that to have happened. Possibly on how he adored the EU. In any event, it is not unheard of for foreigners to give political speeches in public places in the Eu member countries. So preventing this one as the ones in Germany last week are dubious rule of law as well as restrictions on free expression.

My suspicion is that it is about domestic politics surrounding Wilders and the elections.
Click to expand...

You can't hold a large rally here without a permit either, if you do you will be met with the Montreal police and tear gas. I speculate that Wilders very much supports not allowing it, it fits his views.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

reinoe said:
So the Turkish government is full of Social Justice Warriors?
Click to expand...
Anything you'd like me to explain about the post you snipped that from?
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Carjosse said:
You can't hold a large rally here without a permit either, if you do you will be met with the Montreal police and tear gas. I speculate that Wilders very much supports not allowing it, it fits his views.
Click to expand...
He'll certainly be dancing with glee at the Turkish rants.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Chagos said:
He'll certainly be dancing with glee at the Turkish rants.
Click to expand...

Not helping him in the polls though.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Carjosse said:
Not helping him in the polls though.
Click to expand...
Nope.

But the proof will lie, as always, in the pudding. The pudding being next week.

He won't be forming any government though or be part of one, unreliability of polls notwithstanding.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Chagos said:
Nope.

But the proof will lie, as always, in the pudding. The pudding being next week.

He won't be forming any government though or be part of one, unreliability of polls notwithstanding.
Click to expand...

Well the pollsters have their chance of forming a government at 0%, not exaggerating. Everyone is betting on a VVD, CDA, D66, and Groen Links coalition. Forming a centre-right coalition with a green spin.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

joG said:
If they vote in the referendum the citizens are as much Turks as Dutch of foreign descent. They are also citizens that require information that the Turk wanted to give them. If Dutch politicians do not like his opinions the free expression thing to do is argue not forbid. When Obama was in Berlin before he was elected he was allowed to talk to the people.

I do not know off hand if there have been similar occasions in Holland, where a foreign politician held a speech publicly. But I suspect that to have happened. Possibly on how he adored the EU. In any event, it is not unheard of for foreigners to give political speeches in public places in the Eu member countries. So preventing this one as the ones in Germany last week are dubious rule of law as well as restrictions on free expression.

My suspicion is that it is about domestic politics surrounding Wilders and the elections.
Click to expand...

That is the view of Wilders that he is the one who made the government ban him from coming, but that is just Wilders talking out of his ass just like always.

And yes, there surely where other politicians from other countries who have made speeches, but political rallies are not really something that happens a lot. When Obama was in Berlin he did not have a speech purely about US politics but it was about Germany and the US.

And there is no legal right for foreign politicians to hold campaign rallies without proper approval of the Dutch government. All public speeches, even of Dutch politicians who are planning to hold a speech in front of huge crowds need prior approval for such a speech because there has to be police presence to protect public safety for all the people who want to attend. Nobody can say "I am going to come to a foreign country and hold a public rally without approval and a permit" at least not in the Netherlands, people have to go through official channels or not come.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Chagos said:
Anything you'd like me to explain about the post you snipped that from?
Click to expand...

I'll pass, your "analysis" would be of no value. The Turkish government thinks that foreigners should have free and unlimited rights just like SJW in the U.S. In Arizona we even had SJW protesting and demanding that illegal immigrants be allowed to engage in identity fraud without repurcussion. Sounds very much like the Turkish government demanding that Germany provide a platform for a foreign minister to preach Turkish politics.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

reinoe said:
I'll pass, your "analysis" would be of no value. The Turkish government thinks that foreigners should have free and unlimited rights just like SJW in the U.S. In Arizona we even had SJW protesting and demanding that illegal immigrants be allowed to engage in identity fraud without repurcussion. Sounds very much like the Turkish government demanding that Germany provide a platform for a foreign minister to preach Turkish politics.
Click to expand...

And Turkey's secret agent man Flynn belongs in Fort Leavenworth .
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

reinoe said:
I'll pass, your "analysis" would be of no value. The Turkish government thinks that foreigners should have free and unlimited rights just like SJW in the U.S. In Arizona we even had SJW protesting and demanding that illegal immigrants be allowed to engage in identity fraud without repurcussion. Sounds very much like the Turkish government demanding that Germany provide a platform for a foreign minister to preach Turkish politics.
Click to expand...

Starting a post with the truth is always nice. And you are correct Turkey is demanding like other Islamic governments, which it is rapidly becoming, with ideas of expansion by any means it can. They are upset that someone stood up to them.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

NIMBY said:
And Turkey's secret agent man Flynn belongs in Fort Leavenworth .
Click to expand...


Maybe he can share a cell with Obama.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

coldjoint said:
Maybe he can share a cell with Obama.
Click to expand...

Flynn will more likely share a cell with one of the dominoes that will be falling from the trump admin.

trump will be pardoned for his obstruction of justice .
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

reinoe said:
I'll pass, your "analysis" would be of no value. ~....................~Sounds very much like the Turkish government demanding that Germany provide a platform for a foreign minister to preach Turkish politics.
Click to expand...
Which is precisely what I was pointing out so an explanation might have been helpful to you in what appears a to be a comprehension problem of yours.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

coldjoint said:
Starting a post with the truth is always nice.
Click to expand...
Reading a thread with even just a modicum of comprehension is even more helpful.:roll:
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

Chagos said:
Reading a thread with even just a modicum of comprehension is even more helpful.:roll:
Click to expand...

Why the continuous insults? What I say distresses you that much? Poor baby.
 
Re: The Netherlands and Turkey on a war path about visit of foreign minister Çavusogl

coldjoint said:
Why the continuous insults? What I say distresses you that much? Poor baby.
Click to expand...
I'm pointing out to you that you have clearly not understood a thing of what was written.

If that insults you, it's of your own making.
 
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