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United Ireland

HonestJoe said:
~.............................All of this is jumping too far ahead anyway....................~
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most salient point so far, everybody sit down and "un-excite" themselves.
 
PoS said:
Swedes are great at improvising. They decided to drink probably because it was some sort of boring Danish ceremony or parade.
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No we dont ban alcohol from stadiums.. Sweden does...
 
PeteEU said:
No we dont ban alcohol from stadiums.. Sweden does...
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Well Denmark only has like one stadium, so you have to make the most out of it...
 
Tigerace117 said:
Of course, one has to remember that the PIRA of the latter half of the Troubles was largely founded in reaction to rampant infiltration of the RUC by Protestant, Loyalist paramilitaries who committed plenty atrocities of their own.
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Yes but we're not singing songs about the loyalists atrocities in fact quite the opposite we are apologizing for past events like bloody Sunday etc.
 
Higgins86 said:
Yes but we're not singing songs about the loyalists atrocities in fact quite the opposite we are apologizing for past events like bloody Sunday etc.
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Better late than never, I suppose.
 
Higgins86 said:
Yes but we're not singing songs about the loyalists atrocities in fact quite the opposite we are apologizing for past events like bloody Sunday etc.
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The "we" however not being the rabid Ulster bunch of thugs that are voicing remorse about as little as the other side of that conflict of outdoing each other in atrocities, but rather the entity that stepped in with the best intentions of relieving a situation and unfortunately embarked upon an operation that went dreadfully wrong in its outcome.

Let's face it, the Army didn't go into Derry with the intention of slaughter but a large variety of screw-ups, whether one wants to see them as having gone from the ranks all the way to command or command all the way to the ranks or both, led to the blood bath.

"We" held two enquiries into the whole affair, the second overturning the first to the point of "us" then being man enough to take responsibility.

They (and I mean the murderous thugs of both sides that should all have been shot long before any of it) are keeping stumm about their respective responsibilities to this very day, preferring to cover it all in silence for the sake of political expediency and for the sake of maintaining their individual narrative of having been beyond any reproach.

If one had ever wanted to uncover everything, there'd have been neither enough lampposts nor enough rope in the whole of Ulster for Paisley (may he rot in hell) via a multitude of others all the way to Gerry Adams and everyone in between.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Looks like after leaving the EU, the UK may be getting ready to kick England out and rejoin. Teh lulz!
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That has always been a possibility.

Time, and the results of Brexit negotiations will tell.

Grand Mal said:
Ooh! Aah! Up the RA!
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Erm, some of us were British military, I served in NI and I find it always amusing (now) how people very far away were fooled into a romantic picture of resistance. The reality of US and NORAID funds that were collected to fund guns and bombs includes the bombing and killing of civilians.

I certainly wasn't amused at the time.
 
I remain unconvinced. Support for reunification has consistently dropped in NI since the GFA. I havent seen any reliable polling indicating a shift back since the Brexit vote.

Now, while the DUP losses were substantial one has to consider recent events would sink a governing political party in any other country - choosing the unpopular side in a major referendum, retaining unpopular social views and the farcical cash for ash scandal. They still got the most seats though! Such is NI.

Even if there became a majority of nominally nationalist MPs doesnt guarantee a united Ireland vote - look at Scotland and the SNP.

I could only see a chance with a devastating Bexit that pessimists predict. Even then, i dont see how the Republic doesnt get damaged in tandem if GB went down the ****ter. So wheres the appeal in that event?

Better the devil you know.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Ben K. said:
I remain unconvinced. Support for reunification has consistently dropped in NI since the GFA. I havent seen any reliable polling indicating a shift back since the Brexit vote.

Now, while the DUP losses were substantial one has to consider recent events would sink a governing political party in any other country - choosing the unpopular side in a major referendum, retaining unpopular social views and the farcical cash for ash scandal. They still got the most seats though! Such is NI.

Even if there became a majority of nominally nationalist MPs doesnt guarantee a united Ireland vote - look at Scotland and the SNP.

I could only see a chance with a devastating Bexit that pessimists predict. Even then, i dont see how the Republic doesnt get damaged in tandem if GB went down the ****ter. So wheres the appeal in that event?

Better the devil you know.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
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Yeah, I share your scepticism and pretty much on the same grounds.
 
Chagos said:
The "we" however not being the rabid Ulster bunch of thugs that are voicing remorse about as little as the other side of that conflict of outdoing each other in atrocities, but rather the entity that stepped in with the best intentions of relieving a situation and unfortunately embarked upon an operation that went dreadfully wrong in its outcome.

Let's face it, the Army didn't go into Derry with the intention of slaughter but a large variety of screw-ups, whether one wants to see them as having gone from the ranks all the way to command or command all the way to the ranks or both, led to the blood bath.

"We" held two enquiries into the whole affair, the second overturning the first to the point of "us" then being man enough to take responsibility.

They (and I mean the murderous thugs of both sides that should all have been shot long before any of it) are keeping stumm about their respective responsibilities to this very day, preferring to cover it all in silence for the sake of political expediency and for the sake of maintaining their individual narrative of having been beyond any reproach.

If one had ever wanted to uncover everything, there'd have been neither enough lampposts nor enough rope in the whole of Ulster for Paisley (may he rot in hell) via a multitude of others all the way to Gerry Adams and everyone in between.
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The trouble is, the "whole" affair is not being handled in a balanced way. The legal vultures are clamouring over themselves to drag up incidents surrounding British soldiers from 50 years ago, whilst not whimper about IRA murdering scum. Strange that.
 
Once, in a spontaneous act of joy, I started dancing a jig.

An on-looker seeing this asked me, "When did you become Irish?"

To which I replied, "Around 1690 when my grandfather, umpth times removed helped defeat the Jacobites in Ulster..."

That one got a few laughs...

:lol:
 
Infinite Chaos said:
That has always been a possibility.

Time, and the results of Brexit negotiations will tell.



Erm, some of us were British military, I served in NI and I find it always amusing (now) how people very far away were fooled into a romantic picture of resistance. The reality of US and NORAID funds that were collected to fund guns and bombs includes the bombing and killing of civilians.

I certainly wasn't amused at the time.
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Sorry, but the British Army shouldn't have been there, and should have left when the resistance began. It's not personal and you shouldn't try to make it so. People who are occupied by a foreign army are allowed to resist by any means they can contrive.
 
gunner said:
Yea....like all those gutless terrorist blowing up buildings, and killing civilians.

BBC - History - Enniskillen bombing
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People who are occupied by a foreign army, an army that has shown it doesn't draw the line at noncombatants, are allowed to resist by any means at their disposal.
You disagree?
 
Higgins86 said:
So you support the IRA? An organization that spent decades killing innocent men, women and children? Planting nail bombs in busy high streets....
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You support the British Army in Ulster, and the British occupation of a foreign people? Are they not allowed to resist occupation?
 
Grand Mal said:
Sorry, but the British Army shouldn't have been there, and should have left when the resistance began. It's not personal and you shouldn't try to make it so. People who are occupied by a foreign army are allowed to resist by any means they can contrive.
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The British army was originally invited into Northern Ireland in 1969. The view of whether NI (which was and still is part of the UK) was occupied also depends on your religious view.

However the majority view is that any country has a right to try and enforce peace where there are armed crimes and violence against citizens.
 
Grand Mal said:
People who are occupied by a foreign army, an army that has shown it doesn't draw the line at noncombatants, are allowed to resist by any means at their disposal.
You disagree?
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I think you need to read some recent history on the conflict. The British Army were sent in to stop sectarian violence, and mainly protect Catholics. I'm not going to deny some atrocities, I mean, it would be like saying prisoners were not tortured by the US occupying forces in Iraq (see what I done there?). We all know it's happened.
 
gunner said:
I think you need to read some recent history on the conflict. The British Army were sent in to stop sectarian violence, and mainly protect Catholics. I'm not going to deny some atrocities, I mean, it would be like saying prisoners were not tortured by the US occupying forces in Iraq (see what I done there?). We all know it's happened.
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Atrocities happened on both sides but the British Army was never responsible for bombing and murdering civilians.

Anyone wants a good example to amplify the word "terrorism" they only need to look at Enniskillen, Black Friday etc. The possibility of a United Ireland because of Brexit and border problems does not justify the violence or tactics of the IRA or even support for the IRA.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Atrocities happened on both sides but the British Army was never responsible for bombing and murdering civilians.

Anyone wants a good example to amplify the word "terrorism" they only need to look at Enniskillen, Black Friday etc. The possibility of a United Ireland because of Brexit and border problems does not justify the violence or tactics of the IRA or even support for the IRA.
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Exactly. And as we all know, it wasn't until American financial and moral support for said terrorism fell out of favour, post 9/11, that suddenly negotiations became en vogue. The selectivity of some memories is palpable.
 
Grand Mal said:
People who are occupied by a foreign army, an army that has shown it doesn't draw the line at noncombatants, are allowed to resist by any means at their disposal.
You disagree?
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Grand Mal said:
You support the British Army in Ulster, and the British occupation of a foreign people? Are they not allowed to resist occupation?
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You DO realize that Northern Ireland is part of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"?

With Bloody Sunday (to stick with the incident here) not having happened somewhere in Cork?
 
gunner said:
Exactly. And as we all know, it wasn't until American financial and moral support for said terrorism fell out of favour, post 9/11, that suddenly negotiations became en vogue. The selectivity of some memories is palpable.
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Ah, so you don't count the Good Friday Agreement as negotiations? That's a stange position to hold.
 
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