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Theresa May to Seek Clean Brexit From EU

mbig

mbig

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I think many people expected/wanted a long delay, perhaps even no eventual execution on Brexit.
Theresa May, though, is boldly moving forward.
The effects on the UK could be negative in many respects, especially in the first few years.
But I believe in the long term UK/London remains an attractive place for many reasons.


Theresa May to Seek Clean Brexit From EU
Prime minister to give speech on plans in London on Tuesday
By JENNY GROSS - Updated Jan. 16, 2017 - 10:08 p.m. ET
Theresa May to Seek Clean Brexit From EU - WSJ
LONDON—Prime Minister Theresa May is set to declare Tuesday that the U.K. wants a clean break from the European Union, in a closely watched speech in which she is expected to lay out her plans for the divorce. Mrs. May is expected to say that Britain doesn’t want “partial membership” in the EU “or anything that leaves us half-in, half-out,” according to excerpts of a speech released by her office on Monday.

Previous such comments, interpreted to mean that Britain is heading toward a looser relationship with the EU and could lose access to the bloc’s common market, sent the pound tumbling. The currency dropped to three-month lows against the dollar in European markets Monday. “We do not seek to hold on to bits of membership as we leave..".”
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I dont know if this turns out ok but I do like the bold leadership, the "let's get on with it". We have seen way too little of this sort of thing from the global elite in a long while.
 
mbig said:
I think many people expected/wanted a long delay, perhaps even no eventual execution on Brexit.
Theresa May, though, is boldly moving forward.
The effects on the UK could be negative in many respects, especially in the first few years.
But I believe in the long term UK/London remains an attractive place for many reasons.


Theresa May to Seek Clean Brexit From EU
Prime minister to give speech on plans in London on Tuesday
By JENNY GROSS - Updated Jan. 16, 2017 - 10:08 p.m. ET
Theresa May to Seek Clean Brexit From EU - WSJ
Click to expand...

I don't usually comment on the foreign affairs of other nations, but in this case I think I'll make an exception.

First, if she does do this then good for her in respecting the people's choice expressed via the referendum. I think that the "tumble" of the pound will be as short-lived as the original "tumble" of British market reports after the results of the vote had been announced originally.

I have faith in the resilience of the British people, they get knocked down and always get up again to paraphrase Chumbawamba, the British alternative band. ;)

Second, I think that all those people here in the USA who bemoan this as a set-back for "globalization" (and who are often the same people who rant against Trump's election) need to remember their own ideology...Respect the "Popular Vote." :coffeepap:
 
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Captain Adverse said:
I don't usually comment on the foreign affairs of other nations, but in this case I think I'll make an exception.

First, if she does do this then good for her in respecting the peoples choice expressed via the referendum. I think that the "tumble" of the pound will be as short-lived as the original "tumble" of British market reports after the results of the vote had been announced originally.

I have faith in the resilience of the British people, they get knocked down and always get up again to paraphrase Chumbawamba, the British alternative band. ;)

Second, I think that all those people here in the USA who bemoan this as a set-back for "globalization" (and who are often the same people who rant against Trump's election) need to remember their own ideology...Respect the "Popular Vote." :coffeepap:
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Smart Ass

:thumbs:
 
mbig said:
I think many people expected/wanted a long delay, perhaps even no eventual execution on Brexit.
Theresa May, though, is boldly moving forward.
The effects on the UK could be negative in many respects, especially in the first few years.
But I believe in the long term UK/London remains an attractive place for many reasons.


Theresa May to Seek Clean Brexit From EU
Prime minister to give speech on plans in London on Tuesday
By JENNY GROSS - Updated Jan. 16, 2017 - 10:08 p.m. ET
Theresa May to Seek Clean Brexit From EU - WSJ
Click to expand...

We have yet to see, when she actually triggers Brexit and in what condition the EU is in at that time. It would be quite irrational for the country to exit now; possible not doubt but not in the best interest of the UK. The EU must change massively. To give up the right to influence that change would be lunacy. So, let's sit and watch things develop.
 
mbig said:
I think many people expected/wanted a long delay, perhaps even no eventual execution on Brexit.
Theresa May, though, is boldly moving forward.
The effects on the UK could be negative in many respects, especially in the first few years.
But I believe in the long term UK/London remains an attractive place for many reasons.


Theresa May to Seek Clean Brexit From EU
Prime minister to give speech on plans in London on Tuesday
By JENNY GROSS - Updated Jan. 16, 2017 - 10:08 p.m. ET
Theresa May to Seek Clean Brexit From EU - WSJ
Click to expand...

It's an opening position, she was hardly going to say what we would settle for before even having the ovaries to trigger article 50.

The hacks are on the media talking up our position, there will be some very disappointed Ukippers in two years time.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I don't usually comment on the foreign affairs of other nations, but in this case I think I'll make an exception.

First, if she does do this then good for her in respecting the people's choice expressed via the referendum. I think that the "tumble" of the pound will be as short-lived as the original "tumble" of British market reports after the results of the vote had been announced originally.

I have faith in the resilience of the British people, they get knocked down and always get up again to paraphrase Chumbawamba, the British alternative band. ;)

Second, I think that all those people here in the USA who bemoan this as a set-back for "globalization" (and who are often the same people who rant against Trump's election) need to remember their own ideology...Respect the "Popular Vote." :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

As a Brit as well as a Swede I had a vote in the referendum. As one who has waited for thirty years to escape the clutches of the Foul Euromonster I was overjoyed that we won.

I watched May's rather good speech live. As is always the case with her it was very well delivered While she spoke the pound went up against the dollar by 2% and against the Euro by 1.5%. Since the referendum employment is sharply up and the UK economy is growing faster than any other.

You make a good point Captain: the Brexit vote and Trump's election are both victories by the common people over entrenched elites.
 
William Rea said:
It's an opening position, she was hardly going to say what we would settle for before even having the ovaries to trigger article 50.

The hacks are on the media talking up our position, there will be some very disappointed Ukippers in two years time.
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Not half as disappointed as Corbyn's wrecked Labour party when they are wiped out in the 2019 General Election
 
I like that she's gone for a hard clean cut, it's stops a lot of the uncertainty, though I am worried that she didn't mention our fisheries at all.
 
joG said:
We have yet to see, when she actually triggers Brexit and in what condition the EU is in at that time. It would be quite irrational for the country to exit now; possible not doubt but not in the best interest of the UK. The EU must change massively. To give up the right to influence that change would be lunacy. So, let's sit and watch things develop.
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What are you talking about? We trigger article 50 in March. In addition, we'll have very little influence on the EU going forward, in as much as reform.
 
William Rea said:
It's an opening position, she was hardly going to say what we would settle for before even having the ovaries to trigger article 50.

The hacks are on the media talking up our position, there will be some very disappointed Ukippers in two years time.
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I'm not convinced Will. For me, a lot of UKIP are from a dark isolated place, so disappointment may look considerably different for them.
 
gunner said:
I'm not convinced Will. For me, a lot of UKIP are from a dark isolated place, so disappointment may look considerably different for them.
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Like I said, May is talking tough before going into the fire and everyone is acting like all she has to do is turn up and it's in the bag. This is a declaration of a negotiating position, the discussions haven't even started. Aside from my rhetoric, that should be so obvious to any intelligent person that I shouldn't need to say it but, no intelligent response from the usual suspects apart from, 'yeah, well Corbyn smells so there!'.
 
gunner said:
What are you talking about? We trigger article 50 in March. In addition, we'll have very little influence on the EU going forward, in as much as reform.
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Triggering this year would be totally irrational.

As to influence, the U.K. holds the weight of its vote as long as it doesn't trigger and that with the shifting powers within the Eu the weight of that vote could be decisive. Also, the relative weights of the votes of the other members change with the U.K. leaving that will have an impact on majorities.

But the most important thing is to tough it out. A number of Eu leaders have threatend the U.K. with repercussions. The word is out that it is necessary to demonstrate that it is detrimental to those that leave the Eu. At this point it would be not only irrational to trigger. It would be gross negligence.

Not that the Eu is what Europeans need. It has gone too far in wrong directions and has lost most of its legitimacy, while it is running deeper and deeper into the rough. So don't get me wrong. The U.K. should not be in that organization. But it should never have allowed it to happen. It warned against some of the major stupidities and should have prevented. To its credit the British did refuse entering some of the most dangerous and illegitimate treaties like the Euro or Schengen. It would, however, be much better to consolidate the Eu than to leave.
 
Sweden said:
As a Brit as well as a Swede I had a vote in the referendum. As one who has waited for thirty years to escape the clutches of the Foul Euromonster I was overjoyed that we won.

I watched May's rather good speech live. As is always the case with her it was very well delivered While she spoke the pound went up against the dollar by 2% and against the Euro by 1.5%. Since the referendum employment is sharply up and the UK economy is growing faster than any other.

You make a good point Captain: the Brexit vote and Trump's election are both victories by the common people over entrenched elites.
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Except, of course, the 'common people' in the US preferred Clinton by about 3 million votes. But don't let facts get in the way of a good line. Elites - that's cute. Check the voting percentages by minorities in the last election. Unless, of course, like most Far Right Wing extremists, you consider blacks and Hispanics to be elite.:lamo
 
joG said:
Triggering this year would be totally irrational.

As to influence, the U.K. holds the weight of its vote as long as it doesn't trigger and that with the shifting powers within the Eu the weight of that vote could be decisive. Also, the relative weights of the votes of the other members change with the U.K. leaving that will have an impact on majorities.

But the most important thing is to tough it out. A number of Eu leaders have threatend the U.K. with repercussions. The word is out that it is necessary to demonstrate that it is detrimental to those that leave the Eu. At this point it would be not only irrational to trigger. It would be gross negligence.

Not that the Eu is what Europeans need. It has gone too far in wrong directions and has lost most of its legitimacy, while it is running deeper and deeper into the rough. So don't get me wrong. The U.K. should not be in that organization. But it should never have allowed it to happen. It warned against some of the major stupidities and should have prevented. To its credit the British did refuse entering some of the most dangerous and illegitimate treaties like the Euro or Schengen. It would, however, be much better to consolidate the Eu than to leave.
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Regarding the bolded areas

Why is the Euro and Schengen bad ideas?

The Euro can provide economic efficiencies to cross border trade, ensure that central banks can not use currency depreciation to change bad economic decisions. Would the US be better served by multiple currencies as the economic conditions of California are dramatically different then that of say Miss.

The Schengen also allows for efficient travel of Europeans for business and pleasure reasons. As an example would the US be better off with passports required to go from Washington to Idaho? Certainly not. Countries like the PIGS are not in trouble because of the Euro, or Schengen but because of very poor economic decisions made by the various governments over long periods of time not because of the EU.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Second, I think that all those people here in the USA who bemoan this as a set-back for "globalization" (and who are often the same people who rant against Trump's election) need to remember their own ideology...Respect the "Popular Vote." :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

We didnt vote to leave the single market, we voted to leave the EU (and pretty marginally at that) on the contrary, many of those in the Leave campaign (notably Borris Johnson) were vocally in favor of staying in. So we spent the whole campaign being told ´´no no, don´t worry we can stay in the common market" voted accordingly and were then told the opposite.

On the economic front the main difference has been that the pound has gone down the ****ter. Which has worked wonders for exports but raised prices dramatically, and bear in mind that this is before we have to think about dealing with import tarrifs etc. ( as a heavily import dependent economy). So as well as the FTSE 100 might be doing, life for the average citizen is going to get a hell of a lot more difficult.
 
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William Rea said:
Like I said, May is talking tough before going into the fire and everyone is acting like all she has to do is turn up and it's in the bag. This is a declaration of a negotiating position, the discussions haven't even started.
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I have a terrible feeling it could be the opposite. I would like to think she was just starting with tough possition that could be wittled down to something more acceptable later on, but negotations have been going on for a while, and if this was the case surely she would have started out this way?

I think its far more likely that she set out trying to achieve what was promised (i.e a Swiss style solution where we get to enjoy the benefits despite not following the rules), was told where to go by other European leaders. Then retrospectively changed her (previously unannounced) possition to one favouring a hard Brexit in order to save face. I do hope I´m wrong though.
 
Red_Dave said:
I have a terrible feeling it could be the opposite. I would like to think she was just starting with tough possition that could be wittled down to something more acceptable later on, but negotations have been going on for a while, and if this was the case surely she would have started out this way?

I think its far more likely that she set out trying to achieve what was promised (i.e a Swiss style solution where we get to enjoy the benefits despite not following the rules), was told where to go by other European leaders. Then retrospectively changed her (previously unannounced) possition to one favouring a hard Brexit in order to save face. I do hope I´m wrong though.
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You are already wrong about one thing - negotiations have not "been going on for some time". They have not started.

May, and her government, will quite rightly continue to say that she will walk away from the table if the EU does not match the UK's common sense proposals.
 
Sweden said:
You are already wrong about one thing - negotiations have not "been going on for some time". They have not started.

May, and her government, will quite rightly continue to say that she will walk away from the table if the EU does not match the UK's common sense proposals.
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OK, Therea may has been flying to various Europea capitals to discuss the issue, what word can we use to describe those talks?
 
Red_Dave said:
OK, Therea may has been flying to various Europea capitals to discuss the issue, what word can we use to describe those talks

Now that is pretty tricky .... (scratches head, frowns in concentration) .... um .... how about "talks"?

A negotiation is something very different from a chat in general terms about the issues that may, in due course, require to be negotiated.
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Lord Tammerlain said:
Regarding the bolded areas

Why is the Euro and Schengen bad ideas?

The Euro can provide economic efficiencies to cross border trade, ensure that central banks can not use currency depreciation to change bad economic decisions. Would the US be better served by multiple currencies as the economic conditions of California are dramatically different then that of say Miss.

The Schengen also allows for efficient travel of Europeans for business and pleasure reasons. As an example would the US be better off with passports required to go from Washington to Idaho? Certainly not. Countries like the PIGS are not in trouble because of the Euro, or Schengen but because of very poor economic decisions made by the various governments over long periods of time not because of the EU.
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Oh. The ideas were appealing enough. But both would have required constitutional change and in the case of Germany a new constitution with a referendum for either or even more so for the Lisbon treaty. Instead of taking the honest way, politicians preferred to do it incrementally on the sly. This meant that certain features that were absolutely necessary for open boarders or a single currency and one fits all interest rate regiment.

Comparing the Eu and US is inappropriate. The one is a republic and the other an alliance.
 
Red_Dave said:
OK, Therea may has been flying to various Europea capitals to discuss the issue, what word can we use to describe those talks?
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Talks have definitely NOT started. Of course you can throw pieces to the media to gauge the reception.
 
William Rea said:
Like I said, May is talking tough before going into the fire and everyone is acting like all she has to do is turn up and it's in the bag. This is a declaration of a negotiating position, the discussions haven't even started. Aside from my rhetoric, that should be so obvious to any intelligent person that I shouldn't need to say it but, no intelligent response from the usual suspects apart from, 'yeah, well Corbyn smells so there!'.
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. What I was suggesting is that many UKIP voters would see a much less vibrant UK as a price worth paying.
 
gunner said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. What I was suggesting is that many UKIP voters would see a much less vibrant UK as a price worth paying.
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They would. But it needn't come to that, if Ms May negotiates trade treaties with other countries before triggering Article 50.
 
gunner said:
Talks have definitely NOT started. Of course you can throw pieces to the media to gauge the reception.
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The Eu has to restructure asap. Everyone knows that and the Eu must either wait till GB triggers risking further exits and strengthening anti Eu forces or they start with the U.K. having a say. On the other hand the U.K. can take its time and talk about trade treaties with other countries to ease pressure on it.
No doubt about it. Ms May has the Continentals by the short and curliest. All she need do is grab and squeeze.
 
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