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Terrorism Hits Historic Peak in Europe

truthatallcost

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Attacks in 2014 and 2015 have seen the highest number of fatalities, which includes terrorists targeting civilians, government officials, businesses and the media, across Europe since 2004.

The frequency and deadliness of attacks have shifted between Eastern and Western Europe since 2000.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/a-history-of-terrorism-in-europe/

Western Europe is now the terrorism capital of the continent.

Thoughts?
Comments?
 
Western Europe is now the terrorism capital of the continent.

Thoughts?
Comments?

Reading the article doesn't it actually contradict this?

The two graphs further down the page show terrorist activity declining in Western Europe and increasing in Eastern Europe.
 
Reading the article doesn't it actually contradict this?

The two graphs further down the page show terrorist activity declining in Western Europe and increasing in Eastern Europe.

It does. The OP is wrong as usual. Even the graph disproves him. Take away the big spikes, and there are far more attacks in the 1970s-1990s than now. It gets even more obvious if you filter out "eastern European" attacks which is a big majority of the attacks from the 1990s to now.

I have been looking at the map they made, and it is interesting. Cant find the numbers behind the map. Would love to see what they include in the numbers.
 
It does. The OP is wrong as usual. Even the graph disproves him. Take away the big spikes, and there are far more attacks in the 1970s-1990s than now. It gets even more obvious if you filter out "eastern European" attacks which is a big majority of the attacks from the 1990s to now.

I have been looking at the map they made, and it is interesting. Cant find the numbers behind the map. Would love to see what they include in the numbers.

So terrorism in Europe wouldn't be so bad now if you filtered out parts of Europe? Brilliant! Change the framing of the post and everything is wonderful.

Oh, your numbers are contained in the Global Terrorism Database linked in the article, including details of each incident and sources, but I'm sure you will be able to find some flaw.
 
So terrorism in Europe wouldn't be so bad now if you filtered out parts of Europe? Brilliant! Change the framing of the post and everything is wonderful.

Never said that. I questioned the dataset. That is why I questioned the Eastern European attacks.. more below.. oh and I was right.

Oh, your numbers are contained in the Global Terrorism Database linked in the article, including details of each incident and sources, but I'm sure you will be able to find some flaw.

Yea just found the numbers (I blame New Years) and they only proved my point even better. Up to 1997 or so, the average incidents of terror in Western Europe was 400+. After 1997 it is under 200, with a small spike in 2015.

Now in Eastern Europe there was no "attacks" until 1998, and then after that it followed the Western European average. But then there was a massive spike in 2013 and on wards.. why? Because of the Ukrainian conflict. The database includes attacks against military targets, which is a vast majority after 2013. Now I find that troubling in such a dataset, as it skews actual attacks against civilians, which for most is actual terrorism. There is a civil war going on, but attacks against military targets are registered as terror attacks? Fine, but are attacks against both sides military by the other, then registered as terror attacks? When the Ukranians shell rebellious cities, is that registered as a terror attack (kinda doubt it). Best to leave military target attacks out of the equation, as it suddenly becomes political (unless all are included).
 
Never said that. I questioned the dataset. That is why I questioned the Eastern European attacks.. more below.. oh and I was right.



Yea just found the numbers (I blame New Years) and they only proved my point even better. Up to 1997 or so, the average incidents of terror in Western Europe was 400+. After 1997 it is under 200, with a small spike in 2015.

Now in Eastern Europe there was no "attacks" until 1998, and then after that it followed the Western European average. But then there was a massive spike in 2013 and on wards.. why? Because of the Ukrainian conflict. The database includes attacks against military targets, which is a vast majority after 2013. Now I find that troubling in such a dataset, as it skews actual attacks against civilians, which for most is actual terrorism. There is a civil war going on, but attacks against military targets are registered as terror attacks? Fine, but are attacks against both sides military by the other, then registered as terror attacks? When the Ukranians shell rebellious cities, is that registered as a terror attack (kinda doubt it). Best to leave military target attacks out of the equation, as it suddenly becomes political (unless all are included).

Could you direct me to an example of what you believe should be excluded because it is an attack on military?
 
Could you direct me to an example of what you believe should be excluded because it is an attack on military?

Well you forced me to dig into the website even more and it only gives more problems for its legitimacy.

It comes down to what criteria the website uses and what you/I believe is terror. From the website.

Criteria 1

The act must be aimed at attaining a political, economic, religious, or social goal. In terms of economic goals, the exclusive pursuit of profit does not satisfy this criterion. It must involve the pursuit of more profound, systemic economic change.

Criteria 2

There must be evidence of an intention to coerce, intimidate, or convey some other message to a larger audience (or audiences) than the immediate victims. It is the act taken as a totality that is considered, irrespective if every individual involved in carrying out the act was aware of this intention. As long as any of the planners or decision-makers behind the attack intended to coerce, intimidate or publicize, the intentionality criterion is met.

Criteria 3

The action must be outside the context of legitimate warfare activities. That is, the act must be outside the parameters permitted by international humanitarian law (particularly the prohibition against deliberately targeting civilians or non-combatants.

Those are the main criteria they set down. Now the problem comes up.. to be labelled as terror, you only need 2 of the 3 .. or so it seems. They have a "disclaimer" about doubt, and that it is up to the "eyes of the GTD analysts" to define if a incident is a terror act or not. As far as I can see, despite doubt, such acts are still listed as terror incidents.. err okay!

So lets look at just one incident. Ukraine, 2015-09-12. Donetsk region, Zaytseve in the Horlivak district. It was the Armed Forces of Ukraine that made an assault on the city. The GTD criteria met are 1 and 2, but not 3, and yet it is categorised as a terror attack.

Criteria 1, says the act must be in attaining a political, economic, religious or social goal.. err okay, that pretty much describes every armed conflict in history and makes the possible terror.
Criteria 2, says the act must have evidence of an intention to coerce, intimidate or convey some other message to a larger audience... again every armed conflict in history.
Criteria 3, says that the action must be outside the context of legit warfare activities... here the attack fails to meet the criteria.

But the people at the GTD, despite failing criteria 3.. lists this as one of the terror attacks in 2015. What?

If you continue looking at others, you find a similar pattern over and over again. Now is that right? Is shelling a military position now suddenly terror in a civil war / or war ?
 
Reading the article doesn't it actually contradict this?

The two graphs further down the page show terrorist activity declining in Western Europe and increasing in Eastern Europe.

I'd argue that terrorism is more widespread now, due to the fact that some 80% of deaths from terrorism in the 70s & 80s were relegated to one specific area, that being the UK.

Today we see attacks and planned attacks ranging from Turkey to the U.K.
 
It does. The OP is wrong as usual. Even the graph disproves him. Take away the big spikes, and there are far more attacks in the 1970s-1990s than now. It gets even more obvious if you filter out "eastern European" attacks which is a big majority of the attacks from the 1990s to now.

I have been looking at the map they made, and it is interesting. Cant find the numbers behind the map. Would love to see what they include in the numbers.

"Wrong as usual" hilarious Pete.

Tell me; what would you do if you couldn't use the IRA as an excuse? Probably just abandon thread.
 
I'd argue that terrorism is more widespread now, due to the fact that some 80% of deaths from terrorism in the 70s & 80s were relegated to one specific area, that being the UK.

Today we see attacks and planned attacks ranging from Turkey to the U.K.

There were also attacks in Spain, Italy, Germany, France, and other places in Europe during the 1970s and 80s. Again you are wrong.
 
There were also attacks in Spain, Italy, Germany, France, and other places in Europe during the 1970s and 80s. Again you are wrong.

We've been though this before, and I've laid all the data out for you Pete. Why does your mind never change?
 
We've been though this before, and I've laid all the data out for you Pete. Why does your mind never change?

And you dont read the freaking data it seems. There were more attacks in the 1970s and 80s and even 90s than now.
 
And you dont read the freaking data it seems. There were more attacks in the 1970s and 80s and even 90s than now.

More attacks, by the IRA mostly! Where did these attacks occur? One place, the UK.

Is Islamic terror showing signs of going away like the IRA did? No.

Once again you are living in the past and unable to accurately size up the present & future.
 
Western Europe is now the terrorism capital of the continent.
You can play around with artificial borders, date categories and definitions to come up with pretty much any conclusion you want with this kind of this. I don’t see any real benefit in spinning and reducing a complex statistical picture in to simplistic generic statements like this, except for the headline writer making money or the politico seeking to selectively support a predefined partisan position.

That terrorism is a threat in Western Europe isn’t news, especially to those of us actually living here. All this effort to measure, categorise and grade the risk strikes me as a waste of effort. Maybe the people doing it have no real interest in actually understanding the root causes (specifically a plural) and seeking to improve the situation.
 
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