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France- 1/3 of Muslims Reject French Law in Favor of Sharia Law

It is amazing what the furor regarding the Muslims has brought about recently.

For the past two decades that I have lived here, nobody, but nobody, talked about the Muslims. Mostly, they picked up the garbage, drove buses, etc.

But nowadays, all that has changed. Because their children have grown up and are entering the mainstream. They want to be and they act just like any other French person.
Another big difference is that in the 90's France was hit by the global re-islamization wave. With few exceptions, Muslims two decades ago were not wearing the veil, they did not care about halal food, and they were not looking for answers in the life of a 7th century pedophile and mass murderer.

Yes French Muslims are militant because they claim the same rights for them as any other French citizen and you may see it as a proof of integration. But they use those rights to advance Islam, and Islam is the polar opposite of the French culture and model.

They are thoroughly assimilated into French society, and because a handful decide to decimate some innocent people is no reason to believe that France is to become a caliphate in the next five years!
Many are very well assimilated, you are right to point it.

But you are wrong to say that the problem is only with a minority. More than half of Muslims are not assimilated, and the community as a whole is de-assimilating itself, as you will see if you ever live in the suburbs.

If a woman wears the hijab, she is not like any other French. She may be legally French but she is not one of us.
 
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~ We have a problem only because we welcomed more of them ~

Did they have the same opportunities for employment and schooling that other had? Did they have equal opportunity with others in job interviews etc?

I too think we have a problem with our muslim populations but only because the countries that imported muslims did not allow integration as well as they may. The questions of numbers of immigrants and employability are also important - in the UK, we have not had selective immigration policy and I also think there should have been greater emphasis on immigrants accepting the culture and laws of the home nation.

However, as Chagos and HonestJoe have said - the survey was badly worded and actually does not support the case that muslims wish to or will overthrow the laws of the land.
 
1/3 of Muslims in France admit to believing that Sharia Law should trump secular law. Is this troubling? What might it suggest about France's future, given the fact that 84% of French Muslims are under 50 years of age?

I believe this proves that full assimilation of Muslims into French culture is not possible.

Thoughts?
Comments?
Almost' '30' 'percent' 'of' 'French' 'Muslims' 'reject' 'secular' 'laws,' 'new' 'poll' 'finds' '-' 'France' '24

If asked most Christians believe that Gods law override Secular law. The thing is are they still obeying the law? If so this is nothing more than a lame attempt to spread more fear and hate.
 
If asked most Christians believe that Gods law override Secular law. The thing is are they still obeying the law? If so this is nothing more than a lame attempt to spread more fear and hate.

Some might, I imagine most will render unto Caesar
 
Some might, I imagine most will render unto Caesar

As will most Muslims. That does not change the fact that no matter the religion those that believe will say Gods Law is greater than Mans Law. Thing is most of the time the two do not differ.
 
Did they have the same opportunities for employment and schooling that other had? Did they have equal opportunity with others in job interviews etc?
This would have been impossible, you have to keep in reality's bounds. Besides discrimination, prejudices and hatred exist in both directions. And they started with linguistic barriers, no connections, no capital, etc, social mobility takes many generations in all countries.

Yet this did not prevent other groups to assimilate themselves.


There will always be ethnic favoritism.. People of a group trust people from this group more than others, and prefer to live and work with people from this group (even when they claim the opposite). This is true for whatever skin color, religion, political ideas, social class, etc you consider. This will always create insider groups and outsider groups.

There will always be ethnic prejudices.. Prejudices are an integral part of intelligence, we are unable to think without them. Since there will always be favoritism, there will also always be prejudices. And since there will always exist insider and outsider groups, then there will always be groups more prone to criminality, rebellion, violence, etc.


You can deconstruct the colonial image, and I believe this is now nearly complete as western countries advanced very quickly on this point during the past decades. But past this you have to realize that as long as there will differences, there will be favoritism, inequalities and prejudices. We did collect the low-hanging fruits of anti-racism, the only improvement margin remaining is for minorities to amass capital too, so that each group will have its own dominions where it will dominate and oppress outliers.

Post-racism is when you realize that racism will always exist everywhere. From that point on, you suck it up and understand that multicultural societies are unstable and prone to conflicts, distrust, individualism, segregation and secession. Eventually it leads to explosion or assimilation. Look at History.

And maybe one day you will understand that the problem with Muslims in Europe is not a social one. The problem is Islamism, a totalitarian far-right movement that is rising all around the world, especially in countries where Muslims dominate.
 
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Yes French Muslims are militant because they claim the same rights for them as any other French citizen and you may see it as a proof of integration. But they use those rights to advance Islam, and Islam is the polar opposite of the French culture and model.

So what? The Muslim religion wasn't the first to do so. Have you forgot what the Christians did in Spain during the Inquisition?!?!?

Such the underside of ALL RELIGIONS. (And in the inquisitions, if you repented, they killed you first before burning at the stake, otherwise they burned you alive!)

More than half of Muslims are not assimilated, and the community as a whole is de-assimilating itself, as you will see if you ever live in the suburbs.

If a woman wears the hijab, she is not like any other French. She may be legally French but she is not one of us.

Bollocks! Putrid! Who cares what the hell she wears? It's "her" business, not yours!

What makes you think YOU KNOW whether a Muslim or The Muslims are integrated or not? You haven't the faintest idea. You're just spouting propaganda, as did the Nazis!

Just about everything you say above was said about any immigrant community. I am the son of immigrants to the US and though born in the US I grew up surrounded by immigrants.

Any Muslim in their right mind does not want to install a Caliphate. Why go back in history to a the dark times of the middle-ages, when the world is opening up to an frenzied age of international trade and mutual dependence upon a World Economy?

I just don't see it happening, and the younger ones are not fools. Not at all ...
___________________
 
I like your development of the subject. Just one story from American experience. The Japanese Americans were interned in the war. Now Asian Americans are over achievers in educatiin, more successful than Whites and live longer that any other group in the country.
And Asians in France are asking for more policemen, and integrate themselves as soon as the second generation.

Once again, all western countries with enough Muslims have problems with Islam. The Nordic countries, role model of integration, also see the failures of their attempts to assimilate Muslims. So do Italy, the UK, etc. You cannot blame this on colonial wars.
 
So what? The Muslim religion wasn't the first to do so. Have you forgot what the Christians did in Spain during the Inquisition?!?!?
What matters is NOW, not the situation in five centuries from now on. Maybe one day Islam will finally change, but it exhausted the number of chances I offered it.

That being said the inquisition resulted from the black plague, this is an unique context. I have little sympathy for Catholicism and Christianism but Islam is essentially worse in many aspects, and those differences will certainly always persist, although they may decrease. Christ and Muhammad are like the day and the night, sacrificial pacifist on one side, pedophile slaver mass murderer on the other hand.

Such the underside of ALL RELIGIONS. (And in the inquisitions, if you repented, they killed you first before burning at the stake, otherwise they burned you alive!)
I would even say all identities (ideologies, religions, nations, ...) can lead to fanaticism! But...

a) Some identities are more prone to this than others, and Islam is and has always been very prone to fanaticism and violence.

b) Identities turn to fanaticism only in weakened communities in crisis, like Italy and Germany were between the two world wars, like Muslim nations are today. This is why we should avoid destroying our national communities and identities in the name of empire building and multiculturalism, otherwise you will put Europe on fire.

c) Having only one identity in a country makes it more peaceful and enjoyable.

Bollocks! Putrid! Who cares what the hell she wears? It's "her" business, not yours!
I do care and so do most of French people. Because a hijab embodies the idea that females must hide their face to prove their submission and not provoke males. This is antagonist to French values and you cannot consider it as an innocent cloth without any political weight.

And this will remain true however many "rabid", "Nazi" and other words deprived of their meanings you automatically spout.

Any Muslim in their right mind does not want to install a Caliphate.
The vast majority of Muslims around the world want the sharia. Their culture and aspirations are different from ours and they do not want the same civilizational model as we do.

The results are clear. However they still want a democracy. But they want an Islamic democracy submitted to the Sharia, and they trust priests more than politicians. Muslims in France are different, but the majority of them nevertheless put Islamic values above French values (on prohibition of blasphemy and homosexuality for example), and they further radicalize every year.
 
~ And maybe one day you will understand that the problem with Muslims in Europe is not a social one. The problem is Islamism, a totalitarian far-right movement that is rising all around the world, especially in countries where Muslims dominate.

That's the one thing I agree with you on in all our disagreements.
 
If asked most Christians believe that Gods law override Secular law. The thing is are they still obeying the law? If so this is nothing more than a lame attempt to spread more fear and hate.

Every thread about Islam invariably includes some comment akin to "but what about the Christians?"
Well, what about them?

The 2007 CIA World Factbook listed the religion of France as Roman Catholic 83–88%, Protestant 2%....

Despite 90% of French citizens identifying as Christian, France has still managed to be a world leader for human rights, women's rights, and personal freedom.
Compare this to nations that are 90% Muslim. The contrast is stark!

Christians are not a threat to freedom and democracy in Europe. If you can't see that, then your personal bias has blinded you.
 
Every thread about Islam invariably includes some comment akin to "but what about the Christians?"
Well, what about them?



Despite 90% of French citizens identifying as Christian, France has still managed to be a world leader for human rights, women's rights, and personal freedom.
Compare this to nations that are 90% Muslim. The contrast is stark!

Christians are not a threat to freedom and democracy in Europe. If you can't see that, then your personal bias has blinded you.

I already said what about Christians and told what they do as do the majority if Muslims, if you cannot see that then it is intentional on your part.
 
The 2007 CIA World Factbook listed the religion of France as Roman Catholic 83–88%, Protestant 2%....
Actually the CIA did a bad job on this one.

* A third of us are atheists. Another third is agnostic.
* Only two thirds of us claim to be Catholic, in a cultural sense, not a religious one.

The religion of France? Non-religious. This of course reinforces our problems with Muslims, as they are horrified by atheism and contempt towards non-religious people.

Our troubles with religion started under the revolution, when the Church sided with the monarchy. After that we had strong atheist movements and many frictions (catholic antisemitism, resistance against scientific discoveries, ...). But this is only after the ww2 that we really lost our faith, probably as a result of urbanization.
 
I already said what about Christians and told what they do as do the majority if Muslims, if you cannot see that then it is intentional on your part.

Then let's start with this:
If asked most Christians believe that Gods law override Secular law.

Let's see the evidence that 1/3 of French Christians believe that God's law overrides secular law. It's actually a trick question that can't be proven, because there is no set of laws found in the Christian Bible. The New Testament includes Jesus' words that say that religious law is unnecessary if one becomes a Christian.
 
Then let's start with this:


Let's see the evidence that 1/3 of French Christians believe that God's law overrides secular law. It's actually a trick question that can't be proven, because there is no set of laws found in the Christian Bible. The New Testament includes Jesus' words that say that religious law is unnecessary if one becomes a Christian.

I suppose you have never heard of the Ten Commandments or read the Bible, other wise you would not ...................
 
I suppose you have never heard of the Ten Commandments or read the Bible, other wise you would not ...................

The 10 commandments are from the book of Exodus, in the Old Testament .

No one becomes a Christian by reading and believing in the Old Testament. It's what's written in the New Testament that gave birth to Christianity.
 
The 10 commandments are from the book of Exodus, in the Old Testament .

No one becomes a Christian by reading and believing in the Old Testament. It's what's written in the New Testament that gave birth to Christianity.

Bible. Do you even know what is in the Bible, pssst, the OT is part of the Bible, and Jesus said the laws still apply.

Christianity is born from the coming of Jesus and he followed the OT.

Try learning more about Christianity before trying to discuss it as if you have it figured out.
 
Bible. Do you even know what is in the Bible, pssst, the OT is part of the Bible, and Jesus said the laws still apply.

Christianity is born from the coming of Jesus and he followed the OT.

Try learning more about Christianity before trying to discuss it as if you have it figured out.

Where in the OT does it say "love your enemy"?
 
Bible. Do you even know what is in the Bible, pssst, the OT is part of the Bible, and Jesus said the laws still apply.

Christianity is born from the coming of Jesus and he followed the OT.

Try learning more about Christianity before trying to discuss it as if you have it figured out.

I've read the bible several times. Most biblical scholars don't believe that the Old Testament law applies to Christians, if they've received salvation and thus became a Christian.

You still haven't proven your statement about Christians wanting to replace secular law with religious law.
 
I've read the bible several times. Most biblical scholars don't believe that the Old Testament law applies to Christians, if they've received salvation and thus became a Christian.

You still haven't proven your statement about Christians wanting to replace secular law with religious law.

Then your reading comprehension issue applies to my posts as well as what is In The Bible. Go re-read what I said then get back to me, or don't, both work for me.
 
Then your reading comprehension issue applies to my posts as well as what is In The Bible. Go re-read what I said then get back to me, or don't, both work for me.

If asked most Christians believe that Gods law override Secular law.

Prove it or admit that you pulled that fact out of thin air. Can you back up your own claims?
 
Jesus says it. Read more before jumping in with both feet.

Jesus does not speak in the OT. So do you see the difference?
 
Prove it or admit that you pulled that fact out of thin air. Can you back up your own claims?
That has to be the dumbest thing you have said, among many, you really have no idea what it means to Believe. May you learn what it mans one day.
 
Jesus does not speak in the OT. So do you see the difference?
You asked a question and I answered it, If you are a Christian then you follow what He taught us, FYI, the Old and the New Testament are both in the Bible, you know that right?
 
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