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France- 1/3 of Muslims Reject French Law in Favor of Sharia Law

How many Mohammed Bouhlel's does it take to bring the French people into submission? We may find out in our lifetime.
France better hope their economy doesn't falter, they need those welfare payments to keep pacifying potential jihadists.
Is any of the above supposed to be meaningful? Never mind about factual, we know how that usually works out with you.
 
The point here is that not even the link you supplied stated what you said it did. Try to deflect from that a much as you want, it ain't working.

PEW doesn't even show the figure you're pulling out of yer hat (and I hope only from there) in its forecast for 2030.

:roll:

I was responding to a poster who seemed to think there are 3 million Muslims in France. There are actually closer to 10 million.
Does France's Muslim population equal exactly 7,500,000? No. Governments commonly don't know the true exact number of who is in their country.
Here in the US, we've been using the phrase "11 million illegal immigrants" since 2004. Of course the number isn't 11 million after a dozen years have transpired.

Also, please recognize that "closer to 10 million" doesn't mean exactly 10 million. I think you can do that.
 
I was responding to a poster who seemed to think there are 3 million Muslims in France. There are actually closer to 10 million.
Does France's Muslim population equal exactly 7,500,000? No. Governments commonly don't know the true exact number of who is in their country.
Here in the US, we've been using the phrase "11 million illegal immigrants" since 2004. Of course the number isn't 11 million after a dozen years have transpired.

Also, please recognize that "closer to 10 million" doesn't mean exactly 10 million. I think you can do that.
I'll tell you what I can also do. I can ignore your "contributions" for the day. For the next one too.

Heck, forever if need be.

I can see how I wouldn't be missing much.
 
So what the hell?

I happen to think that a certain bunch of posters merit having not only their posting rights revoked (on DP or anywhere else), but any internet privileges altogether.

Does it look to anyone as though I might be making any of those things happening?

Point being that I can hold whatever beliefs I want and even voice them within whatever rules govern where I am.

I can, Muslims can, any other idiot can.

Apparently you don't realize you just called yourself, and Muslims, an idiot.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1066412152 said:
Apparently you don't realize you just called yourself, and Muslims, an idiot.
Gee, there is intelligent life on earth after all. I was beginning to think that nobody was going to notice.
 
I'll tell you what I can also do. I can ignore your "contributions" for the day. For the next one too.

Heck, forever if need be.

I can see how I wouldn't be missing much.

You prefer easier prey. :mrgreen:
 
Of course it is terrifying. There is a mass global migration going around the world.

These mass migrants all bring with them a greater respect for their culture laws than the social laws of the area.

They cannot all be allowed to stay
Could you expand upon ALL.
What do you suggest?
 
The French have quite a problem in their midst. And the real problem is that the population is reacting in ways that are less than rational and pressing even moderate parties into rather populist policies to stop the FN from grabbing power.

The French have done a wonderful job over the decades of ghettoizing and marginalizing Muslims. When a group is ostracized by the majority, problems will arise.
 
My only thoughts are a) I'm surprised it's only 30% considering most Muslim migrants to Europe are male and male Muslims are more prone to extremism than Muslim women, and b) they seem to be no more strident in their beliefs and demands than many other special interest groups who demand attention and that society bend to their particular needs/wants. The very violent minor few are, however, a problem.
 
I think you're all forgetting that france has a constitution which protects religious freedom and that shariah law is just plain impossible in that country. It is projected that Islam will consist of 15% of europe's population in 2100; that's not enough to change most countries' constitutions to enable shariah law. Of course, that statistic assumes that muslims will continue to migrate into Europe at the current rate (chances are that it will decrease after things begin to settle down in war torn countries).
First of all no one knows what the demographic landscape will be by 2100. Heck, we do not even know what it really is today because of the ban on ethnic statistics, and a mere few decades would already introduce a great randomness. Besides we know about nothing about conversions, free or forced (strong social pressures or intimidation for those who live among Muslims, those who want to marry a Muslim man or woman, those who want to find job or a better position in Muslim-dominated enterprises, etc). When Muslims dominate a city, how long does it take before everyone converts? We have no data. And even when you are not Muslim, a Muslim-dominated city is a Muslim environment and you adopt its culture and values.

That being said I do not think France could be completely Muslim by 2100 (but maybe in its majority). However the Île-de-France (Paris' region), our main and wealthiest region, will inevitably be dominantly Muslim (unless we take a radically different path) and may be tempted by secession. Because today a third of high-schoolers in this region are Muslims, because non-Muslims are aging while those ones are young and are more fertile, and because we continue to import more Muslims every year, most of them who set up in this region. And since this region is the seat of power and medias, they will use it to spread Islam.


Finally cultural domination is not the result of mere demographic considerations. Ibn-al-Khaldun, based on his observations of assimilation of conquered countries by Muslim minorities in the 14th century, speculated that the group with the highest assabiyah (cohesion/pride) ends up assimilating the other ones. And Muslims are extremely militant while our people have been taught to be ashamed of their values, of their nation, of their history, of their domination. Muslims are going back to a radical vision of their civilization and form communities around Islam, while we destroy our nations and identities by trying to become a multiethnic liberal province of the European empire, without any cohesive mortar left to unite individuals. It is no surprise that so far Islam has been winning the civilizational war in Europe, and changing us and converting us.


A few examples: two decades ago France still had a vivid tradition of religious satire. Now it is seen as strongly offensive and politically incorrect, and it will not take long before the left supports its prohibition, probably assimilating it to hate speech. Forty percent of French people now supports this, mostly among the pro-Muslim left. This could happen in a mere few years, especially before elections as several representatives cannot be elected without Muslim votes. We have also been banning religious signs on public agents since a century, this law is now being repeatedly violated and it could be removed in just a few years. We have also started funding Mosques with public funds, which is strictly illegal, and many support organizing a regular scheme for this.

And Jews are leaving the country, running for their lives as the Muslim presence grows and radicalizes. But the political class does not give a damn, as long as Muslims are happy. The Jews are more and more voting for the far-right, can you imagine?!
 
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First of all no one knows what the demographic landscape will be by 2100. Heck, we do not even know what it really is today because of the ban on ethnic statistics, and a mere few decades would already introduce a great randomness. Besides we know about nothing about conversions, free or forced (strong social pressures or intimidation for those who live among Muslims, those who want to marry a Muslim man or woman, those who want to find job or a better position in Muslim-dominated enterprises, etc). When Muslims dominate a city, how long does it take before everyone converts? We have no data.

That being said I do not think France could be completely Muslim by 2100 (but maybe in its majority). However the Île-de-France (Paris' region), our main and wealthiest region, will inevitably be dominantly Muslim (unless we take a radically different path) and may be tempted by secession. Because today a third of high-schoolers in this region are Muslims, because non-Muslims are aging while those ones are young and are more fertile, and because we continue to import more Muslims every year, most of them who set up in this region. And since this region is the seat of power and medias, they will use it to spread Islam.


Finally cultural domination is not the result of mere demographic considerations. Ibn-al-Khaldun, based on his observations of assimilation of conquered countries by Muslim minorities in the 14th century, speculated that the group with the highest assabiyah (cohesion/pride) ends up assimilating the other ones. And Muslims are extremely militant while our people have been taught to be ashamed of their values, of their nation, of their history, of their domination. Muslims are going back to a radical vision of their culture while we destroy our nations and identities by trying to become a multiethnic liberal province of the European empire, without any cohesive mortar left to unite individuals. It is no surprise that so far Islam has been winning the civilizational war in Europe, and changing us and converting us.

I'm no expert in ammending the french constitution but I think you need a supermajority to do it, at least a majority. Only a third of muslims want shariah law like the data said so in short, france is not in danger of losing its freedoms.
 
1/3 of Muslims in France admit to believing that Sharia Law should trump secular law. Is this troubling? What might it suggest about France's future, given the fact that 84% of French Muslims are under 50 years of age?

I believe this proves that full assimilation of Muslims into French culture is not possible.

Thoughts?
Comments?
Almost' '30' 'percent' 'of' 'French' 'Muslims' 'reject' 'secular' 'laws,' 'new' 'poll' 'finds' '-' 'France' '24

Coming soon to your home town.
 
I'm no expert in ammending the french constitution but I think you need a supermajority to do it, at least a majority. Only a third of muslims want shariah law like the data said so in short, france is not in danger of losing its freedoms.
See my edit: in just a few years blasphemy will probably be prohibited by using the hate speech laws, mostly thanks to the pro-Muslim leftists. Yet there are only 7% of Muslims so far.

And Muslims rules are already, to some extent, enforced where Muslims dominate, regardless of what the law says. If you want to change the law, start by ignoring it and force people to then rewrite the law to match the new reality.

So there will certainly be no Sharia by 2050, but our freedom has already started recessing. This is why Jews are leaving France.
 
You prefer easier prey. :mrgreen:

He prefers never talking about the actual problem because he knows he can't win that argument. As long as Islam is taught Mohammads way, which is the only way, none of this will end. It can't end until Islam is destroyed( the religion not the people) or Islam dominates the world.

To dismiss these facts about Islam is what he thinks he does best. He has yet to refute, with proof, anything Mohammad has said and the obligations he commanded for his followers. Years ago Islam was referred to as Mohammadism, I wonder why?
 
The French have done a wonderful job over the decades of ghettoizing and marginalizing Muslims. When a group is ostracized by the majority, problems will arise.

Do some racial and ethnic groups lend themselves to being ghettoized? I posted a thread recently in the Europe section, detailing how Chinese immigrants are largely successful and cause almost no problems in France. They are however angry at being targeted by Muslims for robbery and hate crimes, in Paris.

Chinese immigrants to Canada and the US are similar to ones who migrated to Europe; hard workers, self reliant, non-ghettoized.

Why do Chinese immigrants, who aren't white, succeed while many Muslim immigrants don't?
 
Could you expand upon ALL.
What do you suggest?

They come from areas of the world that overwhelming support Sharia Law being implemented on the local and national level, instead of secular law. The subject of this thread.
 
The French have done a wonderful job over the decades of ghettoizing and marginalizing Muslims. When a group is ostracized by the majority, problems will arise.

Oh. There can be no doubt that the French have spent a lot of time and have been very successful indeed in nurturing this problem.
 
Oh. There can be no doubt that the French have spent a lot of time and have been very successful indeed in nurturing this problem.
In my opinion, our true faults are that we imported too many Muslims and we have been tolerant and let their religion spread. We should have shut our doors, repressed Islam and be extremely strict with previous immigrants.

Besides of that we are not to blame. Our ghettos became ghettos, but they were not in the first place. They were modern, cheap and comfortable housing, with quality public schools and high level welfare to properly take care of children. Of course one can always find mistakes here and there But all in all our policies were pretty good.

Those problems are not specific to France, they are the same everywhere Muslims are many. France simply has more Muslims.
 
In my opinion, our true faults are that we imported too many Muslims and we have been tolerant and let their religion spread. We should have shut our doors, repressed Islam and be extremely strict with previous immigrants.

Besides of that we are not to blame. Our ghettos became ghettos, but they were not in the first place. They were modern, cheap and comfortable housing, with quality public schools and high level welfare to properly take care of children. Of course one can always find mistakes here and there But all in all our policies were pretty good.

Those problems are not specific to France, they are the same everywhere Muslims are many. France simply has more Muslims.

I would suppose more that it is more a problem of not having maintained a culture that allowed the immigrants to participate fairly nor was enough attractive to want the dregs and the scorn of the mob and citizen.

The way I saw the French usually treat the Pieds Noirs and Arabs was degrading. Of course they disliked it.
 
I would suppose more that it is more a problem of not having maintained a culture that allowed the immigrants to participate fairly nor was enough attractive to want the dregs and the scorn of the mob and citizen.

The way I saw the French usually treat the Pieds Noirs and Arabs was degrading. Of course they disliked it.
What the Arabs went through in France is no different from what they would have experienced in any other country under the same conditions. On the opposite I believe it would have been worse in most of other countries.

The first immigrants came during the years before the Algerian civil war. When this civil war started, Paris experienced a civil war climate and frequent terrorism, and the enemies were the Arabs. Then suddenly came 90k harkis (Arabs who sided with France in the war) that we had to shelter, and we did not have 90k houses in the recovering and urbanizing France. Since prefabricated housing was not yet what it is today, we built camps because it was the only possible choice. Besides we both hoped they would go back, but we could never convince Algeria to reopen its arms to them, so after years we both resigned ourselves and started working on integration.

And after that, what do you expect? Of course immigrants do the dirty jobs, like they do everywhere around the world. Of course white people had a feeling of superiority, like all white people of their time, and most groups around the world yesterday, today and tomorrow. Of course the locals do not like seeing their neighborhood change, like they do everywhere around the world. Cultural insecurity is strong in all cultures regardless of policies (assimilation or multiculturalism), and it actually is lower among French people. Mind you, we are a tolerant people and we did provide them with a path to assimilation that succeeded on non-Muslims, with good social mobility and free quality education (social mobility has decreased since then of course, like everywhere else).

Or maybe it was it a disguised critic of assimilationism and secularism? Then sorry but I am ready to defend them teeth and nail against that mistake that multiculturalism is. Are you blaming us for not becoming a Franco-Islamic culture?


(*) You cannot mix the Pieds Noirs with Arabs! They were French white settlers, and while they suffered criticisms from the anti-colonial left they quickly blended among us. Many of them were simply coming back home, although some never had been to France before.
 
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What the Arabs went through in France is no different from what they would have experienced in any other country under the same conditions. On the opposite I believe it would have been worse in most of other countries.

The first immigrants came during the years before the Algerian civil war. When this civil war started, Paris experienced a civil war climate and frequent terrorism, and the enemies were the Arabs. Then suddenly came 90k harkis (Arabs who sided with France in the war) that we had to shelter, and we did not have 90k houses in the recovering and urbanizing France. Since prefabricated housing was not yet what it is today, we built camps because it was the only possible choice. Besides we both hoped they would go back, but we could never convince Algeria to reopen its arms to them, so after years we both resigned ourselves and started working on integration.

And after that, what do you expect? Of course immigrants do the dirty jobs, like they do everywhere around the world. Of course white people had a feeling of superiority, like all white people of their time, and most groups around the world yesterday, today and tomorrow. Of course the locals do not like seeing their neighborhood change, like they do everywhere around the world. Cultural insecurity is strong in all cultures regardless of policies (assimilation or multiculturalism), and it actually is lower among French people. Mind you, we are a tolerant people and we did provide them with a path to assimilation that succeeded on non-Muslims, with good social mobility and free quality education (social mobility has decreased since then of course, like everywhere else).

Or maybe it was it a disguised critic of assimilationism and secularism? Then sorry but I am ready to defend them teeth and nail against that mistake that multiculturalism is. Are you blaming us for not becoming a Franco-Islamic culture?


(*) You cannot mix the Pieds Noirs with Arabs! They were French white settlers, and while they suffered criticisms from the anti-colonial left they quickly blended among us. Many of them were simply coming back home, although some never had been to France before.

I like your development of the subject. Just one story from American experience. The Japanese Americans were interned in the war. Now Asian Americans are over achievers in educatiin, more successful than Whites and live longer that any other group in the country.
 
And so what? 3 million people in France, a population of 66 million..think that Sharia should trump French law?

It should be concerning that Muslims believe in large families, 40 years from now, the majority could be Muslim.

1/5 of Americans think the Sun goes around the Earth.. stupidity happens in all societies.

Really?

Why haven't I ever met one?
 
It should be concerning that Muslims believe in large families, 40 years from now, the majority could be Muslim.

Myth. 2nd and onwards generation families are comparable in size to "native" family sizes.

Really?

Why haven't I ever met one?

I have never met a radical islamist... does that mean they dont exist?
 
It should be concerning that Muslims believe in large families, 40 years from now, the majority could be Muslim.

It is amazing what the furor regarding the Muslims has brought about recently.

For the past two decades that I have lived here, nobody, but nobody, talked about the Muslims. Mostly, they picked up the garbage, drove buses, etc.

But nowadays, all that has changed. Because their children have grown up and are entering the mainstream. They want to be and they act just like any other French person.

I am seeing all across the TV young Muslim men and women doing ordinary things. Like presenting the news, or interviewing sports-people, or even moderating a talk-show. All in perfect French - because, you see, THEY WERE BORN HERE!

Which is the French way of saying, "Hey, look. They are just like us!" Not like their parents who spoke with a thick accent or perhaps mama was draped all in black. Consider rising journalist on French TV, Lea Salame, see here. (Wow! And she's intelligent too!!! That smile of hers may be beguiling but in debate she is as hard as nails.)

They are thoroughly assimilated into French society, and because a handful decide to decimate some innocent people is no reason to believe that France is to become a caliphate in the next five years!

Those idiots did more harm than good to their people - and it was a Muslim who told me as much not but a week ago ...
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