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UK Business pleads against hard brexit

Especially when they're totally clueless as to what it's gonna be.

Actually, some do. I've read comments thinking that if things become bad enough it would drive people to leave. They are willing to burn the house down to get what they want.
 
Your usual non answer..



No it is not a silly myth, it is a fact. You can move to any country and work if you want. Now are there some legal barriers? Yes, and the EU has been pounding away at them for decades.. there use to be FAR more than there are now. Also most Europeans know a minimum of 2 languages... those that dont well, they lose out..., not the problem of the EU, as there is plenty of possibilities of learning new languages. I have never claimed it was perfect, but again if the Eurozone/EU is a problem, then so is the UK (a minimum of 2 different languages, and multiple different cultures) and the US (2 languages minimum and expanding and tons of different cultures).

1. Just pointed out the quality of your statement,but unwilling to go into the lengthy fundamentals you seem unacquainted with.
2. Sure. And Father Christmas brings you toys.

You are demonstrating albeit unwittingly why the EU and Euroland are such a mess and so destructive for large parts of their populations.
 
I answered that: because they are not optimum currency area. Tried to explain it to you.

LOL they are not? Your criteria is one common culture and language.. Welsh and Welsh culture.. cant be more common than that..
 
1. Just pointed out the quality of your statement,but unwilling to go into the lengthy fundamentals you seem unacquainted with.
2. Sure. And Father Christmas brings you toys.

You are demonstrating albeit unwittingly why the EU and Euroland are such a mess and so destructive for large parts of their populations.

And your non answer yet again.. forget it, I have had it with your non answering debate style. You are nothing but a propagandist that cant back up your views with actual facts.
 
LOL they are not? Your criteria is one common culture and language.. Welsh and Welsh culture.. cant be more common than that..
I explained why those criteria matter in detail, I am not going to restate them.

Once again you are free to investigate the concept of optimum currency area. There are tons of research papers available to you if you want, and also easier materials. Decide whether you want to build an opinion or keep your faith.

PS: I do not understand what you meant with your last sentence about Welsh culture.
 
I explained why those criteria matter in detail, I am not going to restate them.

Once again you are free to investigate the concept of optimum currency area.

Ahh the "concept" of optimum currency area...

There are tons of research papers available to you if you want, and also easier materials. Decide whether you want to build an opinion or keep your faith.

I know there is. There is also tons of research on the benefits of the benefits of racial purity, but that does not mean it is correct.. My point is, a currency is only as strong as the faith in it... it has nothing to do with culture, common language or anything like that.. fundamentally it has to do with faith in the currency based on the faith in the country or/and institutions that run said country where the currency is situated in.

Also the one side fits all argument that is used against the EURO, .. it is bull****, since once size does all of a sudden fit for currencies like the Dollar and Pound, despite there being massive differences in wealth and economic activity within those countries.

PS: I do not understand what you meant with your last sentence about Welsh culture.

Your argument is that the US dollar or British pound work because of among other things... a common culture.
 
The establishment desperately wants to protect the status quo.
 
Yes.. and? So did the whole Unilever I was quoting..

The problem you are having is your arguing economic and markets topics here without really knowing much about economics and markets. You seem much more knowledgeable to me of soccer and some other sports. There I would not argue with you knowing little about that topic myself.

PS: You do the same with political systems, where you to substitute formal learning and experience with ideological populism.
 
The establishment desperately wants to protect the status quo.

They just saw the extent of harm the EU ideologues were willing to do their populations, when they destroyed millions of lives for their pet project EURO.
 
The problem you are having is your arguing economic and markets topics here without really knowing much about economics and markets. You seem much more knowledgeable to me of soccer and some other sports. There I would not argue with you knowing little about that topic myself.

PS: You do the same with political systems, where you to substitute formal learning and experience with ideological populism.

LOL so that is your excuse for not answering questions and coming out with facts... attacking me for "not really knowing much about economics and markets"? What a load of bs. You have yet to address anything I say.. all you come with is more text book bull**** that does not really apply in the real world.. and you would know that if you had just followed the last decade or so of economic progress in the western world. I know very well the text book theories you constantly clammer too.. many of which have been debunked by reality.
 
So, read it!!

What that has to do with the situation of the British food and drinks industry and Britain's trade deficit on those items is anybody guess though. That's not even mentioning that so far Britain appears to not have covered its own demand from domestic sources.

You lost focus again?

Or do you have some sort of economic model at hand (that not even 101 covers) by which Britain is going to become a net exporter of food stuffs all of a sudden on account of its currency weakening, when

1) It cannot even supply itself from domestic production so far

2) It so far had to rely substantially on importing food stuffs to cover domestic consumption, the imports outrunning by far what it exported

I take it you don't want to touch on the matter of the UK car industry.

Wise decision.

If we are committed to the global market then our lack of domestic production in key areas is always going to leave us vulnerable to currency fluctuations. Regardless of what was happening with the EU we made the choice to join the global market and give up control of our domestic means of production to the lowest bidder in the early 80s. Taking off the EU shackles isn't going to free us from the current international laissez-faire economic orthodoxy.
 
There is also tons of research on the benefits of the benefits of racial purity, but that does not mean it is correct..
Are you seriously comparing the standards of modern economic research with racial theories?

Obviously you have no economic credential or education, so do you have read anything credible that would argue against those theories? Or are you just poisoning an economic discussion with guts-driven vociferations based on you faith in eurolalaland?
 
Instaed of just making blanket statements, perhaps you can name some of the "most". How about three?What sort of pertinence is a wishy washy equation like this one supposed to show?
The UK GDP (value added = revenue minus imports) is four times its imports, and a big part of those are aimed at consumers.

Still want examples of sectors? The ones that take local materials (food & drink for the start, oil production and transformation, I do not know your other resources), the ones that are labor-intensive (most of services, educated or uneducated labor), and the ones with high value added (luxury, design, movies, music, games, airspace, defense, other high-tech industries, ...)
 
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Are you seriously comparing the standards of modern economic research with racial theories?

No I am saying that research and reality more than often does not mix well. In fact many of the so called "modern economic research" that the right promotes actually comes from decades ago and are nothing more than already failed theories and are purely ideology based.

Obviously you have no economic credential or education, so do you have read anything credible that would argue against those theories? Or are you just poisoning an economic discussion with guts-driven vociferations based on you faith in eurolalaland?

Who said I had faith in the Eurozone? The Eurozone aint perfect, and is still a work in process. Would I prefer going back to individual currencies? Hell no.. I would prefer one global currency, so that currency could not be used to hide failed economic policies of corrupt governments.

But I cant stand the "theory touting" bull**** where one currency union is just fine, but the Eurozone aint... and that difference is based on idiotic ideas of culture, common language and similar bull****. The pound is a currency union brought together via violence. The Welsh were subjugated along with the Scots. Their unique cultures and languages were suppressed for centuries and being part of the pound has not helped their economic standing in the world... now this is if you use your theory of currency as a method to improve the economic health of a nation.

So if it is bad for Spain or Italy or Greece to be in the Euro, then it has to be bad for the Welsh and Scots.. hell you can argue that when Spain or Italy had their own currencies, it was bad that places like Naples or Andalusia were part of that currency.. because their economic health was held back by the stronger northern parts of said countries.

Therefore, my point is.. the argument that culture, language and so on are a negative in a currency union, then it must be so for ALL currency unions and not just the oh so hated Euro.
 
No I am saying that research and reality more than often does not mix well.
But you dismiss all of this research without even investigating it and based on gut instincts alone. If you want to dismiss economic research, at least educate yourself a bit about economy!

I would prefer one global currency, so that currency could not be used to hide failed economic policies of corrupt governments.
It is not about hiding failures, it is about:
* quickly amortizing national errors because it take decades to see errors and decades to fix them.
* quickly amortizing national crises and prevent the creation of vicious circles that could result from them.
* giving national govts a powerful tool to make some political choices, for example between wealth and equality. Otherwise, in many cases, competitiveness can only be achieved at great social costs.
* advantaging national production against foreign ones when the differences are slim.

But I cant stand the "theory touting" bull**** where one currency union is just fine, but the Eurozone aint... and that difference is based on idiotic ideas of culture, common language and similar bull****.
But culture, language and identity DO have profound economic impacts! They are extremely important forces that drive the market fluidity, the desirability of goods and services, including public services, and the legitimacy of public policies, of public force and of taxes.

The pound is a currency union brought together via violence. The Welsh were subjugated along with the Scots. Their unique cultures and languages were suppressed for centuries and being part of the pound has not helped their economic standing in the world... now this is if you use your theory of currency as a method to improve the economic health of a nation.
Nothing in economic research commands to do such a thing.

But if you think an European common market can exist without a common language, you are blind. Sooner or later the EU will do to our national cultures the same thing that happened to regional cultures. Regardless of what has been declared in the treaties, the EU will be an English-speaking empire with an unique culture. It has already started: less and less of the EU documents are translated every year, more and more of the superior courses in the EU are in English, so are more and more enterprises who seek to draw European talents.

Therefore, my point is.. the argument that culture, language and so on are a negative in a currency union, then it must be so for ALL currency unions and not just the oh so hated Euro.
Of course.

But for Welsh and Scots, nowadays, do they not share the same culture and language as English people, for the most part? I am unfamiliar with them, but I bet there are not really Welsh and Scott markets, just an UK market, and great fluidity of movement between England and those regions. In this case this would make the UK area an optimum currency area because the pros would vastly exceed the cons.
 
The UK GDP (value added = revenue minus imports) is four times its imports, and a big part of those are aimed at consumers.
.......and this is pertinent how? Or, to ask more precisely, top WHAT?
Still want examples of sectors? The ones that take local materials (food & drink for the start, oil production and transformation, I do not know your other resources), the ones that are labor-intensive (most of services, educated or uneducated labor), and the ones with high value added (luxury, design, movies, music, games, airspace, defense, other high-tech industries, ...)
.......and what does this have to do, to remind you of what started this discussion, halving the costs of the food industry and thus effectively making food cheaper?

When, to repeat once again, Britain imports a substantial amount of its foodstuffs, seeing how it is not capable of meeting domestic demand on its own?

You may prefer to obfuscate the measure by abandoning focus, yet I don't lose that as readily as you appear to do.
 
LOL so that is your excuse for not answering questions and coming out with facts... attacking me for "not really knowing much about economics and markets"? What a load of bs. You have yet to address anything I say.. all you come with is more text book bull**** that does not really apply in the real world.. and you would know that if you had just followed the last decade or so of economic progress in the western world. I know very well the text book theories you constantly clammer too.. many of which have been debunked by reality.
Yeah, that response (the one you reply to here) is really rich. Considering where it originates from.:lol:
 
If we are committed to the global market then our lack of domestic production in key areas is always going to leave us vulnerable to currency fluctuations. Regardless of what was happening with the EU we made the choice to join the global market and give up control of our domestic means of production to the lowest bidder in the early 80s. Taking off the EU shackles isn't going to free us from the current international laissez-faire economic orthodoxy.
bears repeating :applaud

Not that I'm much of a friend of this line of conducting argument, but with some (it appears) it need be conveyed at the end of a baseball bat.
 
LOL so that is your excuse for not answering questions and coming out with facts... attacking me for "not really knowing much about economics and markets"? What a load of bs. You have yet to address anything I say.. all you come with is more text book bull**** that does not really apply in the real world.. and you would know that if you had just followed the last decade or so of economic progress in the western world. I know very well the text book theories you constantly clammer too.. many of which have been debunked by reality.

"more text book bull****" I m not sure, why you so love spewing bulls' manure from your mouth. It is not manly and does not supply any strength to you EU ideology. And your red-neck attitude to knowledge, though explaining many of your opinions, is really rather an embarrassment in most relevant quarters.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Address the topic, not the other posters. Failure to follow this simple advice has consequences.
 
It is not about hiding failures, it is about:
* quickly amortizing national errors because it take decades to see errors and decades to fix them.

BULL****. Greece used this for decades to push the manure ahead of them. We know what the errors are for **** sake.. we have always know what the errors are. In Spain it has been the labour laws with a sprinkling of corruption. In Italy, again labour laws that prevent competition. In France.. guess what.. labour laws. In Greece we all knew that their tax system was a mess. If you have the abilities you so love, then you can decade after decade just "quickly amortize national errors" and not fix them!

* quickly amortizing national crises and prevent the creation of vicious circles that could result from them.

Or make it so that, there is no need to fix anything!

* giving national govts a powerful tool to make some political choices, for example between wealth and equality. Otherwise, in many cases, competitiveness can only be achieved at great social costs.

Or ignore it all together.. which is what governments historically have done! Even the last round of so called quantitative easing done by the US and UK, did absolutely nothing to fix their errors... in fact it did the exact opposite. Banks are now even bigger and even more "too big to fail" and there is nothing to prevent the banks in doing exactly the same crap that lead to the 2007 economic crisis.

* advantaging national production against foreign ones when the differences are slim.

Funny how the disadvantaged Spanish national production has gone up (export wise), but the advantaged UK national production (export wise) has at best been stagnant...

But culture, language and identity DO have profound economic impacts! They are extremely important forces that drive the market fluidity, the desirability of goods and services, including public services, and the legitimacy of public policies, of public force and of taxes.

If so, then there should be a huge negative impact in a place like the UK, where you have 4 distinct cultures in one economic union.. Or the US, where cultural differences and identities vary all over the freaking country. Your theory just does not add up when put to the test.

But if you think an European common market can exist without a common language, you are blind. Sooner or later the EU will do to our national cultures the same thing that happened to regional cultures. Regardless of what has been declared in the treaties, the EU will be an English-speaking empire with an unique culture. It has already started: less and less of the EU documents are translated every year, more and more of the superior courses in the EU are in English, so are more and more enterprises who seek to draw European talents.

Not anymore, since the UK is leaving.. hence English wont be an official language any more.

But for Welsh and Scots, nowadays, do they not share the same culture and language as English people, for the most part? I am unfamiliar with them, but I bet there are not really Welsh and Scott markets, just an UK market, and great fluidity of movement between England and those regions. In this case this would make the UK area an optimum currency area because the pros would vastly exceed the cons.

LOL no they dont. Language wise, they have been forced to speak English, but cultural wise there are vast differences.. hell even in England it self. Hell even in my own country of Denmark, there are cultural differences between east and west coast.. and language differences as well. Different traditions and so on. That is your argument, that differences make a currency area impossible. I disagree. The cultural differences between the UK and France are not that big. Nor UK and Spain or Denmark. Yes some eat Turkey at Christmas, others eat pork, and others eat duck... and some eat Lasanga, because that is their family tradition. So what.
 
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