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Jeremy Corbyn: 'We'll win election as socialist party'

TheDemSocialist

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Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has claimed he can win a General Election with a platform based on socialism and the party should not hide away from the word.Speaking to Sky News, Mr Corbyn said socialism should not be treated "as a sort of bad word you should only talk about late at night".
"It's is an ideology that is based on the principle that everyone should contribute and those in need should benefit the most from our common endeavours," he said.
"The NHS is the product of the socialist thinking of many people actually and brought into operation by Aneurin Bevan - a coal miner."
He denied a personality cult had developed around him among his loyal supporters writing poetry books and defending him robustly online.
"I'm not in favour of cults of personality and I don't encourage them," he said.


"We have a system of leadership election in the party which is that individual members and unions and registered supporters have a vote, and an incredible number of people joined in our campaign.
"We had 40,000 volunteers in my leadership campaign and we put forward a series of policies which are there for discussion.


Read more @: Jeremy Corbyn: 'We'll win election as socialist party'

After Jeremy won the recent Labour leadership election he is ready to take it on to the general election in 2020. Good luck Jeremy and stick and keep to that socialist platform
 
Read more @: Jeremy Corbyn: 'We'll win election as socialist party'

After Jeremy won the recent Labour leadership election he is ready to take it on to the general election in 2020. Good luck Jeremy and stick and keep to that socialist platform
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For capitalism to provide maximum benefit to society, it must be practiced with social restraint. If it goes awry, which it will if unregulated and unrestrained, talk of Socialism often rises as a foil. I think that's reasonable, and in my ideal modern society I'd probably most like to see a social-democracy similar to The Netherlands or Denmark - two places with a very high quality of life in the parameters I most value.

So good to see this on the other-side of the pond, after the conservative foray into the Brexit! It seems to be a counterpart to our reasonable success with Bernie's movement. A little liberal yin, to the sweeping conservative yang. I think it's a good thing.
 
For capitalism to provide maximum benefit to society, it must be practiced with social restraint. If it goes awry, which it will if unregulated and unrestrained, talk of Socialism often rises as a foil. I think that's reasonable, and in my ideal modern society I'd probably most like to see a social-democracy similar to The Netherlands or Denmark - two places with a very high quality of life in the parameters I most value.

So good to see this on the other-side of the pond, after the conservative foray into the Brexit! It seems to be a counterpart to our reasonable success with Bernie's movement. A little liberal yin, to the sweeping conservative yang. I think it's a good thing.
It seems like you consider the EU and free market as good things for blue collars. This makes me laugh hard.

Do you realize the EU takes power from the people and put it farther from them, in the hands of international elites who share neither your language nor your culture nor your interests, and vowed to serve the free market because this is their only common denominator and they feel no solidarity between each other (something that could only be achieved by destroying European cultures to forge an unique identity)? Do you realize that a forever freer market, even if it was undeniably making countries wealthier (which is actually a messy question at best), would by nature be a tradeoff for more wealth at the expense of political, social and democratic considerations and sovereignty?

The left has traditionally been pro-EU in the name of internationalism. But it is more than due time the left becomes aware of its paradoxes and realizes that its multicultural and internationalist fantasies have created monsters that oppose everything the left should have ever defended: Islam is the graveyard of feminism and secularism, the European project is the greatest cultural destruction and colonial project of all times, and the European free market is a funeral procession for social-democracy and ecology, a vow to serve the market über alles at a time it caused a fall of median income, at a time we should trade wealth for social and political considerations rather than the opposite.

Let's not mention that the incompetent iron grip of the EU over our economies and its fierce resolve to destroy our nations at times people feel distress and more than ever need a community to solder is like throwing oil on fire. We have been promised decades of economic recessions and ethnic disputes, and in such a context their vow to stab the nations, cultures, identities and democracies again and again and again and again, is like a firm resolve to bring back war in Europe. If I had wanted to destroy European prosperity and seed wars on its lands, I would have done exactly what the EU is doing.
 
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Do you realize the EU takes power from the people and put it farther from them,

False. Read the EU treaty, it clearly states the opposite.

In fact, in its history, the EU has been used to take power away from central government in countries and give it to the regional and local governments. It is especially evident in the UK, where Wales and Scotland have benefited massively from this. For decades.. hell centuries, these two regions in the UK were ignored by the elites in Westminster, and thanks to the EU, local and regional government have been able to bypass Westminster for funding for various infrastructure projects.
 
False. Read the EU treaty, it clearly states the opposite.

In fact, in its history, the EU has been used to take power away from central government in countries and give it to the regional and local governments. It is especially evident in the UK, where Wales and Scotland have benefited massively from this. For decades.. hell centuries, these two regions in the UK were ignored by the elites in Westminster, and thanks to the EU, local and regional government have been able to bypass Westminster for funding for various infrastructure projects.

And yet Wales voted overwhelmingly to leave !
 
Nope, they voted to leave.. not overwhelmingly. 52.5% is not overwhelmingly...

Fair enough, I was stretching it a tad :lol: still, a region that has benefited like Wales has, may regret their decision in the long-term.
 
False. Read the EU treaty, it clearly states the opposite. In fact, in its history, the EU has been used to take power away from central government in countries and give it to the regional and local governments.
It took all diplomatic, monetary, border and trade powers from nations, the most of our economic sovereignty, and the EUCJ judges regularly impose us their peculiar and partisan interpretations of the human rights on various issues from immigration to religion and labor, a blatant abuse of their power. This has been a massive confiscation of democratic power!

What did it give in return? The only think I can think of are greater rights for regional languages, and it is only promoted them to weaken the nations and hope that after the ensuing civil wars or unilateral votes, people left with ashes of their national identities will vow allegiance to the imperial one. Pfff.
 
Corbyn is a fool, taking his party back to the old "socialist" ways of Neil Kinnock and his ilk will not make him a popular politician. I think his victory and his mannerism will ensure a few more Tory victories.
 
Corbyn is a fool, taking his party back to the old "socialist" ways of Neil Kinnock and his ilk will not make him a popular politician. I think his victory and his mannerism will ensure a few more Tory victories.

It's worse than that. At least Kinnock expelled the militant left, and wrestled back control. Corbyn is openly encouraging Marxism and is hoping to elevate the doctrine to mainstream Labout doctrine. I think Watson has the measure of reality:

Tom Watson claims far-left Momentum members are circulating a guide to taking over the Labour Party - Mirror Online
 
It's worse than that. At least Kinnock expelled the militant left, and wrestled back control. Corbyn is openly encouraging Marxism and is hoping to elevate the doctrine to mainstream Labout doctrine. I think Watson has the measure of reality:

Tom Watson claims far-left Momentum members are circulating a guide to taking over the Labour Party - Mirror Online

And that is why I, as a social democrat, do not like socialist parties. I even really dislike the socialist party in the Netherlands because it has so many outlandish ideas on the national level that they make themselves impossible to be taken serious as a possible party that can take place in the government.
 
It took all diplomatic, monetary, border and trade powers from nations, the most of our economic sovereignty, and the EUCJ judges regularly impose us their peculiar and partisan interpretations of the human rights on various issues from immigration to religion and labor, a blatant abuse of their power. This has been a massive confiscation of democratic power!

But the ECHR has nothing to do with the EU... it predates the EU..

What did it give in return? The only think I can think of are greater rights for regional languages, and it is only promoted them to weaken the nations and hope that after the ensuing civil wars or unilateral votes, people left with ashes of their national identities will vow allegiance to the imperial one. Pfff.

Well it was put in place to prevent another Hitler..
 
But the ECHR has nothing to do with the EU... it predates the EU..
Not the ECHR, the EUCJ: since the EU's "constitution" mentions values and human rights, the EUCJ uses it to intervene on every matter, even those who are not EU competences.

And those judgments prevail over national laws! Not like EU directives who first need to be transposed. As a result, if you want to ban familial immigration, you need to change your country's constitution to specifically mandate your judges to ignore the EUCJ rulings on those matters.

Well it was put in place to prevent another Hitler..
No, the coal and steel community was. However the somehow more recent idea of forging an European empire at the expense of existing nations, which the EU is becoming, is no different from the conquests of Hitler and Napoleon. Actually the EU goes further since neither Hitler nor Napoleon dreamed of forging a new common identity, which requires to first destroy (marginalize) all European cultures and languages. Such a project can only be achieved by force and tyranny.

Besides blaming nations is an absurd and shallow reasoning. For one because destroying nations to create a new one is only displacing the problem. For two because any identity can derail into outgroup hostility: nations can birth nationalism like religions can birth crusades, removing nations will only lead people to adopt other identities with similar problems or worse: Nazism and fascism were born as a reaction to the weak national identities of Germany and Italy, because people felt the need for a stronger community in times of crisis. For three because jingoism was not caused by the existence of nations, it was caused by circumstances that made people turn to totalitarianism.


Besides of its own imperialism the EU laid conditions that will greatly help the rise of extreme movements in the upcoming decades. First of all the ww2 was the child of the 1929 crisis. And about every economist today would agree that the EMU made the 2008 crisis worse over the last eight years, and now poses a very significant danger of a further global economic collapse. The EMU was always ill-conceived, amateurish, plagued with systemic and dangerous problems, and those problems have been revealed to all informed people after 2008. Whatever economic advantages the EMU may have had (or not) for some some of us, it has eventually proved to be an extremely hazardous and dangerous gamble for the aim of forging an European identity.

Second of all the EU rendered our political powers weak, unable to solve problems. As a result mainstream parties lost their legitimacy and this made the extremes look like more reasonable alternatives than parties known for not solving anything. One preeminent example is immigration: all regular right-wing parties and electors would like to decrease immigration, yet immigration has constantly increased and we are now supposed to become multicultural and multiethnic countries. In other words we are supposed to become Franco-Islamic, Germano-Islamic and Italiano-Islamic countries and cultures, which should be a disgusting idea for any progressive, a great step backward for the European civilizations, and something that most of electors absolutely do not want.Yet no mainstream party has been able to change this because the EU, EUCJ, ECHR oppose the necessary reforms.


In the upcoming decades European countries may know economic collapses, civil wars, wars, and genocides. And the EU will be the first culprit.
 
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And that is why I, as a social democrat, do not like socialist parties. I even really dislike the socialist party in the Netherlands because it has so many outlandish ideas on the national level that they make themselves impossible to be taken serious as a possible party that can take place in the government.

I've lost count of the people who have said the very same: " I cannot take them seriously ". Funny, I don't know if you've watched any of the Labour conference, but it is cringeworthy when they start singing 'keep the red flag flying '. Moreover, if it would have been a nationalist party singing any format of song, the left would be screaming from the rafters of jingoism etc. Funny how double standards work.
 
Yet somehow the party membership keeps re-electing him, despite the worst efforts of the elite...

Mark Steel | The Independent

You really need not bother inventing stories about ordinary people being influenced by some elite. Most of us (the majority of the country, that is) can see the loon for what he is.
 
sorry removed for space. ;)

This was something which I followed at the time along with the rest of the stuff which was going on. Basically this seems to have been at least if not more initiated by non Jew Blairites in the Labour Party. Another of the Jews suspended was Tony Greenstein who you may remember from a previous BBC program on this. Last I read he had not received a reason but basically this is political - Jews and others being suspended for their political view. I am not saying there was/is no antisemitism in the Labour Party but what I am saying is that in this incident it appears to have been whipped up for political reasons - that would seem to be to get Labour to fail at local elections and hence provide an easy excuse to get rid of Corbyn.

OK to get to what happened I found again an article I read at the time written by Jamie Stern Weiner a Jewish academic who at the time was working in some way with Cambridge.

As you will see she was responding to an argument that it is illegitimate to be involved in BDS when European antisemitism is on the rise. (Many Jews are involved in BDS)

The second disagreed with a claim, made by another Facebook commenter, that it is illegitimate to boycott Israel while European antisemitism is on the rise. Walker pushed back against a ‘Jewish particularism’ that privileges Jewish suffering and treats Jews as perpetual victims. ‘Jews do not have special status in the league of suffering’, she wrote, ‘and have as much potential to be perpetrators as the rest of humanity’. Walker stressed that ‘I will never back anti-Semitism’, but insisted that the ‘Jewish holocaust does not allow Zionists to do what they want’, such as building ‘illegal’ settlements. In response to a comment decrying ‘[any] action against’ Jews—i.e., boycotting Israel—as ‘shameful’ because of ‘[t]he holocaust’, Walker replied:

I cannot copy and past the quote which is the one which ought to be the same as your link. However that is the context in which she is speaking not some discussion about an African Holocaust. What she says is that she hopes the person she is speaking to has the same attitude towards those who suffered in the 'African Holocaust' - that her ancestors were involved in this on both sides, that millions more Africans were killed in this and they still suffer from oppression today. She says many Jews including her ancestors were chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade and yes that is why there are so many synagogues. The quote finishes "So who are the victims and what does it mean? We are victims and perpetrators to some extent through choice. And having been a victim does not give you a right to be a perpetrator."

This was an argument about the legitimacy of BDS not the African Holocaust. Clearly she will be well aware that Arabs and Africans were involved. That was not what she was discussing.

Stern Weiner goes on

That is, Walker urged upon her interlocutors a principled and universalist compassion; a sense of perspective on the distribution of oppression today, and recognition that no group is purely perpetrator or victim, and exempt from accountability on that basis. As Walker put it, referring to genocidal campaigns against Africans and Jews, respectively: ‘[my] ancestors were involved in both—on all sides’.

How was this plea for historical perspective and ethical universalism rendered by the Jewish Chronicle? ‘Labour suspends Momentum supporter who claimed Jews caused “an African holocaust”’. In the league table of cynicism and deceit, the JC is giving Guido Fawkes a run for its money.

The attack on Walker is being driven by pro-Israel activists

Walker’s Facebook comments were unearthed by the Israel Advocacy Movement (IAM). The IAM is a crude pro-Israel advocacy group which claims that ‘Zionism and Judaism are inseparable’ (haven’t many Labour members been suspended for implying just this?); denounces Palestine activists as ‘fascists’; and despises Corbyn for his defence of Palestinian rights. The IAM was founded by Joseph Cohen, who also co-founded the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA).[1] The CAA is a pop-up ‘antisemitism’ organisation established to discredit Palestine solidarity protests in the wake of Israel’s summer 2014 offensive against Gaza. In January 2015, the CAA released two polls suggesting that the UK was awash with rampant and virulent antisemitism. The polls were dismissed by all serious analysts as a sham, and a serious study by Pew exposed the CAA’s findings as worthless.[2]

https://jamiesternweiner.wordpress....unt-turns-on-leading-anti-racist-campaigners/

This was thoroughly discussed by Jews critical of Israel at the time who were I think to a person supportive of her.
 
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above post wrong thread. My apologies.
 
Yet somehow the party membership keeps re-electing him, despite the worst efforts of the elite...

Mark Steel | The Independent

I enjoyed that. "All the plotters agreed on the need for unity, and many of them displayed that straight away by not turning up to Corbyn’s speech." Good line, and true!
 
You really need not bother inventing stories about ordinary people being influenced by some elite. Most of us (the majority of the country, that is) can see the loon for what he is.

Some of the diehard Labour RW, and the almost unanimous media, including the BBC have been rubbishing him since he won the leadership. Thousands of "ordinary people" have joined to make the Labour party bigger than it's ever been, and they voted twice now to keep him there. The idea that somehow they and he are deluded trotskyites is mental. The working people are taking the party back from the champagne Tory lite socialists. I was reading a comment earlier this week that this vilified demonised wrecker would be a middle of the road social Democrat in Scandinavia.
 
Some of the diehard Labour RW, and the almost unanimous media, including the BBC have been rubbishing him since he won the leadership. Thousands of "ordinary people" have joined to make the Labour party bigger than it's ever been, and they voted twice now to keep him there. The idea that somehow they and he are deluded trotskyites is mental. The working people are taking the party back from the champagne Tory lite socialists. I was reading a comment earlier this week that this vilified demonised wrecker would be a middle of the road social Democrat in Scandinavia.

As Steel points out, the irony of the Labour RW attacking him for sowing disunity is especially gob-smacking. Frankly, until they get their own way and return a centrist, neo-con, Tory-lite to the leadership they will be attacking the leadership and doing everything to ensure that Labour loses. I'm not in favour of expulsions, but I'm not hopeful that any of Corbyn's internal opponents have any intention of fostering party unity.
 
Will be funny in 2020 when he crashes and burns, and he has no option but to step aside, he was too arrogant to do the right thing after the referendum.
 
As Steel points out, the irony of the Labour RW attacking him for sowing disunity is especially gob-smacking. Frankly, until they get their own way and return a centrist, neo-con, Tory-lite to the leadership they will be attacking the leadership and doing everything to ensure that Labour loses. I'm not in favour of expulsions, but I'm not hopeful that any of Corbyn's internal opponents have any intention of fostering party unity.

It looks like Corbyn's steering group are going to do the sensible thing:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ackie-walker-over-holocaust-remarks?CMP=fb_gu
 
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