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Brexit: a very British coup.

Bravo ....... a tour de force in petulance and intolerance, with not a single attempt to address any of the perfectly reasonable points made.

Whatever reputation or record someone may have, if they behave in a petulant and intolerant way then they deserve to be called out for it.
 
.........with all of which I (at least) feel that derailment away from the thread topic has gone far enough for me to...............
 
Pete - it's not Russia. Surely you can see the systemic crisis of western sponsored globalism, of the western post war world order, of the credibility of mainstream political elites all across the EU?

Yes and no. I see the far right exploiting the fears of the people by blaming everything from globalism, Muslims, Jews and the guy next door if they can.. all to gain power. That the mainstream politicians have been unable or unwilling to do anything about it is the main problem. Historically this has happened every so often and is more than often triggered by the "elitists" losing power.

Take Germany.. up to WW1 the country was run by the same type of elitists that ran most countries in Europe including Russia. Since the late 1800s a new idea and movement had come around called... socialism and workers rights. The elitists hated it, so at first the sent in the troops killing thousands in all countries. At the same time they were playing the same old games they had been doing for centuries.. power grabs and war in Europe. Out of this came WW1 and then the **** hit the fan. The socialists, aka communists threw out the elitists in Russia and the revolution threatened to spread. Germany lost the war and the government was weak.. it had to stop the flow of socialism. So they invited the socialists into government after a decade of beating the crap out of them. It was to control them, as they never had any real power. It back fired. The great depression hit and the crapper really hit the fan. In a desperate attempt to maintain power, they turned to a guy named Adolf and his falsely named "National Socialist Party". They managed to maintain power, and to their delight, Adolf also started to round up the socialists and kill them. We all know how that ended.

Point is, we have been through this before.. the only difference is, that this time around we have mass media and the internet so it is much easier to manipulate the population. It is also easier to find out the lies... sadly often too late.

Surely you can see that to ascribe all this to Russia is ridiculous?

No because Russia is at the moment, the main instigator behind the "anti-globalist" movement... not because they believe in it, but because it causes instability in the main rival states/organisations. Before Russia it was the US who did the same against the British Empire.. although through different methods. It is the classic divide and conquer strategy.

Do people not have very genuine personal reasons why they vote and think the way they do?

To be fair.. no. The most rabid Brexit people are pensioners...what personal reasons do they have to vote that way? Mostly ignorance and stupidity as it turns out, because they have been living of a diet of anti-EU bs through the British tabloids for 4 decades.

The Swiss immigration vote..who voted for less immigration? Those that were directly effected by immigrants? no.. the rural peoples who rarely see immigrants and are least effected by them.

Mass inequality and a visibly failed system which produced it is not Russia's fault. Western elites have presided over and created this over decades. Why support a system which has alienated significant numbers of mainly working class people?

But there is NO mass inequality!...While inequality has gotten worse the last decade, we are still far far far better of than 40+ years ago. What has alienated significant numbers is basically fear mongering and the massive flow of information or rather miss-information.

For example.. there are 10 murders in a country... 2 are done by Muslim immigrants. These 2 murders are all over the media and net, where as the 8 others are barely covered.... that over time will cause the problem we have it today. The steady stream of miss-information and lies by the British print media over decades about the EU and Europe, did in part lead to Brexit.

I have some elderly friends of my late parents, who are Facebook addicts. The amount of "the Immigrant gang did this" crap they spread is astounding. One would think that all crime in Denmark is done by Muslims and immigrants and they all live right around where these friends live. Now I know that most Muslims and immigrants dont live anywhere near them, and that statistically most crimes by far in Denmark are done by white christian danes..But listening to them, and you would think we live in freaking Syria sometimes.
 
Pete - I accept some of your points. Of course there is mis-information spread by all parties, including Russia. In addition, I'm pleased that you acknowledge that whatever the elites are doing to counter the movement against them, they're doing it badly.

But I don't think it's realistic to dismiss Brexit as the result of 40 years of press mis-information, or concerns about immigration likewise.

If you look at support for anti EU parties in Germany or Italy, much of that is coming from younger age groups.

If you look at the huge success of Orban in Hungary, he must be generating mass popular support.

There's a pan European phenomenon going on here, much of it coming in EU states where virtually the entire media and elite are pro EU.

Whatever is happening must reflect, at least partly, systemic problems with globalism, and a rigid selfish elite unable to respond to changing times.

There is mass inequality, although the bottom may be much wealthier than decades ago. But inequality is relative. In addition, there's a feeling of hopelessness caused by an endless supply of cheap labour from abroad. Why invest in training and capital when you can pick up cheap manual labour? Consequently for many they are unable to train, unable to see improvement, forever stuck on minimum wage.

In the UK I see the same rear-guard action to thwart Brexit. Not once has anyone said on the Remain side - hang on, clearly something about EU membership is not working for significant numbers of people, we need to be realistic and deliver reform.

It's all polarised - them and us, ignorant plebs versus educated 'progressives'.

It is, as you say, at least partly reminiscent of early 20th century Europe.
 
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Pete - I accept some of your points. Of course there is mis-information spread by all parties, including Russia. In addition, I'm pleased that you acknowledge that whatever the elites are doing to counter the movement against them, they're doing it badly.

But I don't think it's realistic to dismiss Brexit as the result of 40 years of press mis-information, or concerns about immigration likewise.

Actually it is. The conservative run newspapers have since the Thatcher years been going on about how the EU is bad and the British Empire is good (to put it crude). Then came the refugee crisis of 2015 and of course they jump on it instantly because it is easy to "blame the foreigner", especially if they look different. The inherited racism in any white society, plus the disadvantaged from ironically enough the Thatcher years, and you have a ripe "blame X" for all the ills of society. It is no different than what Hitler did to the socialists and Jews.. when in fact it was his own backers that had caused almost all the economic problems of Germany and benefited hugely by his rise to power. You dont turn a society overnight, especially when there is no real crisis. Hitler had a crisis, where as the conservative "British Empire" types did not and could not for the life of them create one.. so it too time and as we know now, massive manipulation and lies.

If you look at support for anti EU parties in Germany or Italy, much of that is coming from younger age groups.

Yes and no. Germany is a special case due to the fact that far right parties have all but been banned or shunned away since 1945.. due to the whole Nazi thing. The AfD is the new nazi party and yes it is young people.. but I betcha quite a few of them have parents or grandparents who were involved in some shaddy **** for a long time. As for Italy.. the Italian far right has been around since the 1980s and formed in Northern Italy and was due to hatred of South Italy (and all the money we send there). That later morphed into hatred of blacks, jews, muslims and the EU. The far left populist party is nothing new, other than for once in Italian history the far left have gather together under one banner instead of the 1251235 different ones they use to have. Ironically, they were the ones who traditionally fought against the far right

If you look at the huge success of Orban in Hungary, he must be generating mass popular support.

LOL no. His base is the older generation and he cooks the books so to say. His popularity is under 50% and yet he has a super majority.. yea great democracy there. He is Trump 1.0.. utterly corrupt (actually convicted of it) and his family and friends are bleeding the country dry on their populist bull**** agenda. Since he controls the media, the population does not get the truth at all.

There's a pan European phenomenon going on here, much of it coming in EU states where virtually the entire media and elite are pro EU.

This phenomenon has been there since the 1970s and is nothing new. It has existed in most countries and only recently come up in Germany and Spain due to local issues. These protest parties started in France in the 1970s with Front National and in Denmark with the Peoples Party.. ironically an anti-Tax party until the founder got busted for massive tax fraud and then he started blaming Muslims.. in the late 1970s.. BNP and similar have been around for ages.. same in Holland and Belgium and in Italy and so on. It is nothing new... what is new, is that they now have massive funding coming from the elites... Have you ever checked out who is funding them?

There is mass inequality, although the bottom may be much wealthier than decades ago. But inequality is relative. In addition, there's a feeling of hopelessness caused by an endless supply of cheap labour from abroad. Why invest in training and capital when you can pick up cheap manual labour? Consequently for many they are unable to train, unable to see improvement, forever stuck on minimum wage.

Bull****. The country in western Europe that has the biggest inequality is the UK.. the one with the least is Denmark/Sweden. This can be measured you know. Now the felling of hopelessness is often CREATED by these populist parties on behalf of their very wealthy backers.. who often own new media. PEW did a poll a while ago, and asked how many Muslims were in each country.. the numbers were WAY off.. The French though over 30% of the country was Muslim.. The Brits was like 20%.. so far off it is not even funny. How did people suddenly "feel" that there was so many Muslims? Bull**** right wing propaganda.. and ignorance.
 
The Brexit campaign virtually thrived on an immigration issue it had fostered by itself (albeit not exclusively). Directing public wrath that was already directed at EU citizens from Eastern Europe towards Syrian immigrants that would never come anyway. Most notably UKIP feeding the public with blatant lies of Olgino slant and, interestingly enough, having led to investigations over Russian funding.

Germany does not have the same laws on keeping funding of political parties intransparent so it is public knowledge there that Russia paid for a private jet to transport AfD leaders to Moscow so that they might better go a-brown-nosing.

Le Pen having received a Russian loan to finance FN activities is on public record and she doesn't even bother denying it but, on the contrary, boasts about it quite proudly.

All three being on record in having excessively praised the KGB thug while at the same time having campaigned for sanctions against Russia to be lifted.

The recently established German spin-off of RT demonstrates a propensity for employing far-right journalists, one of them enthusiastically engaging in anti-semitic rants on the screen.

When any thinking person needs information on how Europe has developed over the past decades (and why), turning to anyone spouting from the same fold as described above is about the daftest thing that can be done.
 
This phenomenon has been there since the 1970s and is nothing new. It has existed in most countries and only recently come up in Germany and Spain due to local issues. These protest parties started in France in the 1970s with Front National and in Denmark with the Peoples Party.. ironically an anti-Tax party until the founder got busted for massive tax fraud and then he started blaming Muslims.. in the late 1970s.. BNP and similar have been around for ages.. same in Holland and Belgium and in Italy and so on. It is nothing new... what is new, is that they now have massive funding coming from the elites... Have you ever checked out who is funding them?

I know it's nothing new, but the inconvenient truth you gloss over is that the far right EU hating parties are becoming ever more popular.

In France, Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands in 2017 they all polled their highest ever level of support.

In Austria, Poland and Hungary they're part of government.

You seem to be far too sanguine, and other than blaming the media in the UK, you've neither explained nor acknowledged the scale of the 'problem'. This complacency is standard stuff which plays directly into the hands of far right groups. But then again, the EU and many of its supporters are seemingly incapable of accepting that core elements of its principles such as free movement are increasingly reviled. The EU is more a religion than a practical construct, and this fanaticism to the beliefs is likely to be its un-doing.

Back to Brexit, if the EU had offered Cameron more in his attempted re-negotiation in 2015 , the referendum would surely have had a different outcome. That rigidity of thought, that fanatical devotion to free movement, prevented them from being pragmatic and sensible. Cameron came back from Brussels with virtually nothing. He was sent to fight a referendum almost completely naked.
 
Just to address this particular aspect
~......................Germany is a special case due to the fact that far right parties have all but been banned or shunned away since 1945.. due to the whole Nazi thing. The AfD is the new nazi party and yes it is young people....................~
That's actually not correct. Statistics on votes in the 2017 election and dividing them between the under 25s and the over 60s shows an equal 10 pct for both camps for the AfD. Of all votes given to all parties. As an example to compare with, it was 24 to 40 for votes (under 25 vs. over 60) given to the CDU/CSU and 19 to 24 respectively for the Social Democrats. Parties that garnered an abundance of "young" votes being the Greens, the Free Democrats and the Left.

As to actual age distribution of AfD voters, this may give a more conclusive picture

Wahl 2017.jpg

and where the NPD (Nazi party) has not been banned, it's sunk to virtual insignificance ever since the AfD managed to shed its griping over Europe (which brought practically nothing for it) and found itself blessed with the migrants (Gauland's own words), thus providing a new gathering ground for the fascist thugs.

That's not to say that every AfD voter is a Nazi but the party itself is majority held by the same. With that bunch, all the way up to Gauland (whom I generally refer to as Gauleiter) using the same obfuscations we see here to prevent voters from realizing that fact.
 
Just to address this particular aspectThat's actually not correct. Statistics on votes in the 2017 election and dividing them between the under 25s and the over 60s shows an equal 10 pct for both camps for the AfD. Of all votes given to all parties. As an example to compare with, it was 24 to 40 for votes (under 25 vs. over 60) given to the CDU/CSU and 19 to 24 respectively for the Social Democrats. Parties that garnered an abundance of "young" votes being the Greens, the Free Democrats and the Left.

As to actual age distribution of AfD voters, this may give a more conclusive picture

View attachment 67236671

Thanks for proving my point.. kinda. Look at the age distribution... but what it lacks is where these voters are living. Betcha most are in the former East Germany and how long ago was that unification? Do the math.

and where the NPD (Nazi party) has not been banned, it's sunk to virtual insignificance ever since the AfD managed to shed its griping over Europe (which brought practically nothing for it) and found itself blessed with the migrants (Gauland's own words), thus providing a new gathering ground for the fascist thugs.

Western Germany went through a de-nazi-fication for decades, which was some what succesful. On top of that, the remaining Nazies either fled, or went underground.. but they never went away. It was only after reunification that the far right neo nazi types began to become more and more mainstream by hiding in plain sight. The AfD has clear Nazi like attitudes, but because there are no clear links to previous Nazi parties and peoples.. then well it has to be accepted.

That's not to say that every AfD voter is a Nazi but the party itself is majority held by the same. With that bunch, all the way up to Gauland (whom I generally refer to as Gauleiter) using the same obfuscations we see here to prevent voters from realizing that fact.

There have been quite a few top AfD members who are in family with former Nazi party members.. grandfathers and even parents (depends on age of course). And this is my point... sure there are many new people coming to the cause, but the core is rotten.. When a leader of a party calls for the mass shooting of people at the border, then you know what type of person she and her party is.
 
I know it's nothing new, but the inconvenient truth you gloss over is that the far right EU hating parties are becoming ever more popular.

In France, Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands in 2017 they all polled their highest ever level of support.

Not glossing over anything. And the polls have since gone down considerably, as links to Russia, neo nazi organisations and of course far far far less migrants have happened.

In Austria, Poland and Hungary they're part of government.

Yes.. and those countries are going down the ****ter. Hungary is all but a failed state. Poland is hanging on some what, but the pressure to fully go failed state is there.. thanks to the far right Putin supported brown shirts. And in Austria, well.. those crazies have been around for a while and one cycle they get popular only to lose in the next. Of course if they manage to change the election laws like in Poland and Hungary to their advantage, then all bets are off.. funny how these authoritarian brown shirts always have to change election laws and the judicial systems eh?

You seem to be far too sanguine, and other than blaming the media in the UK, you've neither explained nor acknowledged the scale of the 'problem'. This complacency is standard stuff which plays directly into the hands of far right groups. But then again, the EU and many of its supporters are seemingly incapable of accepting that core elements of its principles such as free movement are increasingly reviled. The EU is more a religion than a practical construct, and this fanaticism to the beliefs is likely to be its un-doing.

Scale of what problem? Migration? Okay lets put it into perspective.. EU migrants put far more into the UK economy than they take out. They preform jobs that the British are either too uneducated or too lazy to do. The UK had and still has measures to get rid of EU migrants.. the 3 month rule, but has chosen NOT to use it.. why is that? As for refugees.. totally overblown since the UK barely takes in any refugees and has done so for the last decade (relative to other countries). No the real UK migration problem is from their former colonies.. but we cant talk about that, because they be black and brown.

Back to Brexit, if the EU had offered Cameron more in his attempted re-negotiation in 2015 , the referendum would surely have had a different outcome. That rigidity of thought, that fanatical devotion to free movement, prevented them from being pragmatic and sensible. Cameron came back from Brussels with virtually nothing. He was sent to fight a referendum almost completely naked.

Offered what? Cameron was not even using the possibilities in the current agreement so why the hell would he use new methods ? You do know, that as an EU citizen you only have the right to live in another EU country for 3 months, and then you have to pay for your own healthcare and living. An EU country has the right to kick you out if you are a burden to society. Why dont countries use these rules more? Oh because the migrants for the most part actually work and pay taxes!!!
 
Thanks for proving my point.. kinda. Look at the age distribution... but what it lacks is where these voters are living. Betcha most are in the former East Germany and how long ago was that unification? Do the math.
Most definitely. Where you have to travel far and wide in some places to even get to see one migrant.

OTH you get to see far more migrants in West-Germany and the AfD doesn't do nearly as well there. Go figure.
Western Germany went through a de-nazi-fication for decades, which was some what succesful. On top of that, the remaining Nazies either fled, or went underground.. but they never went away. It was only after reunification that the far right neo nazi types began to become more and more mainstream by hiding in plain sight. The AfD has clear Nazi like attitudes, but because there are no clear links to previous Nazi parties and peoples.. then well it has to be accepted.
No argument with any of that, I agree.
There have been quite a few top AfD members who are in family with former Nazi party members.. grandfathers and even parents (depends on age of course). And this is my point... sure there are many new people coming to the cause, but the core is rotten.. When a leader of a party calls for the mass shooting of people at the border, then you know what type of person she and her party is.
They apply the same tactics as you-know-who. Get it out there, let the mindless followers cheer, then do a walkback.

Main thing being that it's been said.
 
As to Cameron, he went to Brussels at the time with a bunch of demands that he knew could never find acceptance but prior to setting out he sold them to the Brit public anyway. So that he could come home and do the old "look how nasty they're being".

Pretty much what Theresa is doing now, selling to her cabinet and the public what she cannot possibly gain in Brussels.
 
BBC iPlayer available 1 week

Some compelling and very revealing interviews, the words from the people inside the decisions and not TV pundits putting words in their mouths.

Shocking stuff - we knew Boris went into the campaign to further his political career and not for the win, we knew Aaron Banks and Farage were pushing hard with an email campaign within the Conservative Party for Leadsom to become the new leader once Cameron resigned but the oily Brexit campaigner who also made £200million on his bet the markets would crash in the case of a Brexit win was the worst example of the worst kind of politics behind the referendum.



What are you trying to say ?

How is an open, fair plebiscite a "coup" ?
 
James Delingpole a spokesperson for the downtrodden???? :lamo
Son of an industrialist, educated at $50,000 per annum private boarding school and Christ Church, Oxford. He refers to Brexit as 'our peasants' revolt'! Had he been around in the 1380s I'm sure he would have been hanging the peasants from London Bridge with the rest of his class. As the estimable Charlie Brooker (Black Mirror creator) says of him: "Delingpole succeeds in improving the image of the upper classes. Whenever he opens his mouth to defend them, they magically become 50 times less irritating. Than him."

It doesn't surprise me that you buy his hard-right BS, Jack.

My fight elsewhere, is with followers of Jacob Rees-Mogg appreciation society, very similar 😂
 
Not glossing over anything. And the polls have since gone down considerably, as links to Russia, neo nazi organisations and of course far far far less migrants have happened.


It's interesting you say that, probably because it's what you want, but the very clear evidence in the key state of Germany is quite the opposite.

The AfD continue to grow - slowly but perceptibly - far less migrants or not.

Indeed, the constant Russophobia may well consolidate their support among the dis-affected or those turned off by the lunacy of poking a near neighbour and important business partner.

https://pollytix.eu/pollytix-german-election-trend/
 
Offered what? Cameron was not even using the possibilities in the current agreement so why the hell would he use new methods ? You do know, that as an EU citizen you only have the right to live in another EU country for 3 months, and then you have to pay for your own healthcare and living. An EU country has the right to kick you out if you are a burden to society. Why dont countries use these rules more? Oh because the migrants for the most part actually work and pay taxes!!!


That may be so, but it's missing the point.

Cameron campaigned to Remain, pledging to re-negotiate the UK's position. Brussels, if they possessed any vision, should have realised that he could lose the referendum, particularly if they sent him home with nothing.

So they sent him home to fight the campaign with nothing. He was hardly going to campaign on the basis that he never needed to go to Brussels, that he could have done more himself, and that those kindly un-elected aparatchiks had helped him see the error of his ways.

Brussels lacked foresight and pragmatism. They could and should have helped him sell the EU. They gave him barely a fig leaf to cover his modesty.
 
It's interesting you say that, probably because it's what you want, but the very clear evidence in the key state of Germany is quite the opposite.

The AfD continue to grow - slowly but perceptibly - far less migrants or not.

Indeed, the constant Russophobia may well consolidate their support among the dis-affected or those turned off by the lunacy of poking a near neighbour and important business partner.

https://pollytix.eu/pollytix-german-election-trend/

AfD votes per state..

Saxony (former East Germany, capital Dresden), 27%
Thuringia (former East Germany) 22%
Brandenburg (former East Germany) 20.2%
Saxony-Anhalt (former East Germany) 19.6%
Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (former East Germany) 18.6%

and that was pretty much all of East Germany...

Then the West German states come in.. top one is Bavaria at only 12.4%.. and the rest go downhill from there to 7.8% in Hamburg.

Now explain this huge difference? Why is AfDs main source of votes in the East.. and not spread around the country? I am not saying that the vote in Western Germany is insignificant, because it is.. but it is still around 10% or so, which gives zero power anywhere.
 
Yes.. and those countries are going down the ****ter. Hungary is all but a failed state.


For a neo 'failed state', Hungary is doing awfully well. It's economic growth is extremely robust, among the highest in the whole EU.

Goodness knows what you'd make of Greece et al :roll:


Hungary - Economic forecast summary (May 2018) - OECD

Economic growth is projected to remain strong but to slow somewhat in 2019 as capacity constraints bite. Real wage gains and employment increases will support private consumption, while investment will be stimulated by private firms and the disbursement of EU structural funds. Exports will benefit from robust external demand and new capacity expansion, although gains in market share will slow. Wage increases resulting from tighter labour market conditions will raise inflation, which is projected to exceed the central bank's 3% target in early 2019.

Fiscal and monetary policies are expansionary. In 2018, there have been tax reductions alongside widespread spending increases. Statutory minimum wages have also been raised sharply, with further increases scheduled. Prudent policies are needed to prevent overheating. Furthermore, with strong economic growth, a faster reduction of the budget deficit would allow the government to finance higher future age-related spending.
 
That may be so, but it's missing the point.

Cameron campaigned to Remain, pledging to re-negotiate the UK's position. Brussels, if they possessed any vision, should have realised that he could lose the referendum, particularly if they sent him home with nothing.

They did not send him home with nothing and the UK was already receiving tons of special consideration? They were literally not pulling their own weight, because they were getting a massive rebate.

So they sent him home to fight the campaign with nothing. He was hardly going to campaign on the basis that he never needed to go to Brussels, that he could have done more himself, and that those kindly un-elected aparatchiks had helped him see the error of his ways.

He had plenty of things to campaign on, but he was facing headwinds from the start thanks to decades of miss-information and of course it did not help that Putin was helping the leave campaign...

Brussels lacked foresight and pragmatism. They could and should have helped him sell the EU. They gave him barely a fig leaf to cover his modesty.

Brussels did not want to get involved.. that has always been their policy. And it is hard to sell the EU in a country where the media is run by a bunch of anti-EU billionaires who want to control the government.. Sorry but blaming the EU for the mess Cameron and his Tory party has created is pathetic.

The rules were and are in place to deal with EU migration. The UK refused time and time again to change migration rules unless it involved the ability to bar EU citizens from countries... I mean wtf? The Uk has been the main problem by its constant blocking of reforms to deal with migration, banking and so on and so on.. and it STILL never has used the EU rules we already have.. why is that?
 
For a neo 'failed state', Hungary is doing awfully well. It's economic growth is extremely robust, among the highest in the whole EU.

Goodness knows what you'd make of Greece et al :roll:


Hungary - Economic forecast summary (May 2018) - OECD

Economic growth is projected to remain strong but to slow somewhat in 2019 as capacity constraints bite. Real wage gains and employment increases will support private consumption, while investment will be stimulated by private firms and the disbursement of EU structural funds. Exports will benefit from robust external demand and new capacity expansion, although gains in market share will slow. Wage increases resulting from tighter labour market conditions will raise inflation, which is projected to exceed the central bank's 3% target in early 2019.

Fiscal and monetary policies are expansionary. In 2018, there have been tax reductions alongside widespread spending increases. Statutory minimum wages have also been raised sharply, with further increases scheduled. Prudent policies are needed to prevent overheating. Furthermore, with strong economic growth, a faster reduction of the budget deficit would allow the government to finance higher future age-related spending.

Corruption in Hungary is rampant.. and what the OECD does not say, is that investment in the country by outsiders is very bad... why? Because no one gets contracts that the PM and his buddies are bidding on.. go figure eh?
 
AfD votes per state..

Saxony (former East Germany, capital Dresden), 27%
Thuringia (former East Germany) 22%
Brandenburg (former East Germany) 20.2%
Saxony-Anhalt (former East Germany) 19.6%
Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (former East Germany) 18.6%

and that was pretty much all of East Germany...

Then the West German states come in.. top one is Bavaria at only 12.4%.. and the rest go downhill from there to 7.8% in Hamburg.

Now explain this huge difference? Why is AfDs main source of votes in the East.. and not spread around the country? I am not saying that the vote in Western Germany is insignificant, because it is.. but it is still around 10% or so, which gives zero power anywhere.

Because the AfD is not all about migrantion - it's not a single issue party.

Inequality, social deprivation, alienation, de-industrialisation, unemployment and poverty are all more significant issues in the east.
 
the AfD is practically a one-trick pony venue, that trick being all about trashing migration. It offers nothing else on any other societal issue, claiming that stopping migration and throwing those migrants already in the country out again will solve anything else. It's most popular slogan is "Deutschland den Deutschen".

To claim that it even has anything remotely resembling a policy on inequality, social deprivation, alienation, de-industrialisation, unemployment and poverty constitutes the height of ignorance.

Or, as finds repeated confirmation, distortion of facts.
 
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I gave my opinion on the conundrum of why the AfD does better in areas with lower migration.

As I pointed out, using factual evidence, AfD support grows despite the migration crisis fading. FACTS FACTS FACTS - inconvenient aren't they?



Last time I checked I was allowed an opinion, although the intolerant neo-nazis seem uncomfortable with some opinions being expressed. They do need to grow up.
 
I didn't know that the intolerant neo-Nazis are uncomfortable with Olgino-esque propaganda being served. On the contrary they appear to be quite in agreement with it and happy to have its support. But I'd agree that on that one they need to grow up indeed, much as anyone not being able to get his or her projections under control.

As to the actual reason for neo-Nazis being able to sell their migrant hatred better in places where one rarely encounters a migrant, that's easy.

It's simply easier to sell lies on something or someone that the customer has no experience with. Or knowledge upon.

On that note this site presents the average snake oil salesman with greater difficulty. Simply because many here have the experience of having lived in various European countries and speaking their local lingo too. Thus being acquainted with the respective conditions, trying to sell them a load of bumpf must be very frustrating.
 
I gave my opinion on the conundrum of why the AfD does better in areas with lower migration.

As I pointed out, using factual evidence, AfD support grows despite the migration crisis fading. FACTS FACTS FACTS - inconvenient aren't they?



Last time I checked I was allowed an opinion, although the intolerant neo-nazis seem uncomfortable with some opinions being expressed. They do need to grow up.

It's probably true that the demographics of AfD supporters in Sachsen are not dissimilar to that of Leave voters in Sunderland.
 
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