Germany-Migrants are Vacationing to the Same Countries they Fled [W: 76]

Despite claiming their lives would be at risk if they were forced to return home, a shocking investigation shows many asylum seekers are nonetheless returning to their homeland for a “short time”.

A German Federal Employment Office spokesman said: “There are such cases.”

The issue is also a problem in the Netherlands, where the government is scrambling to impose some control.

While Switzerland has also flagged up the same issues, confirming dozens of asylum seekers who had apparently turned up penniless after fleeing what they said was a war zone were found to have flown home on holiday.

German officials have now launched an investigation to crack down on migrants travelling back to the homelands they have previously fled.

It appears as though many refugees were just using Germany's kindness for free money and programs. Now, many of them are vacationing to their home countries, apparently affording airfare and travel expenses to do so.

Migrants claiming asylum in Germany take HOLIDAYS in the countries they are 'fleeing' | World | News | Daily Express

truthatallcost said:

Despite claiming their lives would be at risk if they were forced to return home, a shocking investigation shows many asylum seekers are nonetheless returning to their homeland for a “short time”.

A German Federal Employment Office spokesman said: “There are such cases.”

The issue is also a problem in the Netherlands, where the government is scrambling to impose some control.

While Switzerland has also flagged up the same issues, confirming dozens of asylum seekers who had apparently turned up penniless after fleeing what they said was a war zone were found to have flown home on holiday.

German officials have now launched an investigation to crack down on migrants travelling back to the homelands they have previously fled.

It appears as though many refugees were just using Germany's kindness for free money and programs. Now, many of them are vacationing to their home countries, apparently affording airfare and travel expenses to do so.

Migrants claiming asylum in Germany take HOLIDAYS in the countries they are 'fleeing' | World | News | Daily Express

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The key phrase in the article is "if true". If it's in the Express then it generally is not true.

zyzygy said:

The key phrase in the article is "if true". If it's in the Express then it generally is not true.

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The shocking revelation, uncovered by leading German newspaper Die Welt am Sonntag, reinforces the growing problem..."

Migrants claiming asylum in Germany take HOLIDAYS in the countries they are 'fleeing' | World | News | Daily Express

The Daily Express is just doing an English version of the original German story.

truthatallcost said:

The shocking revelation, uncovered by leading German newspaper Die Welt am Sonntag, reinforces the growing problem..."

Migrants claiming asylum in Germany take HOLIDAYS in the countries they are 'fleeing' | World | News | Daily Express

The Daily Express is just doing an English version of the original German story.

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That doesn't make the story true. If a German MP does not know if it is true or not then it should be viewed with some suspicion.

truthatallcost said:

Despite claiming their lives would be at risk if they were forced to return home, a shocking investigation shows many asylum seekers are nonetheless returning to their homeland for a “short time”.

A German Federal Employment Office spokesman said: “There are such cases.”

The issue is also a problem in the Netherlands, where the government is scrambling to impose some control.

While Switzerland has also flagged up the same issues, confirming dozens of asylum seekers who had apparently turned up penniless after fleeing what they said was a war zone were found to have flown home on holiday.

German officials have now launched an investigation to crack down on migrants travelling back to the homelands they have previously fled.

It appears as though many refugees were just using Germany's kindness for free money and programs. Now, many of them are vacationing to their home countries, apparently affording airfare and travel expenses to do so.

Migrants claiming asylum in Germany take HOLIDAYS in the countries they are 'fleeing' | World | News | Daily Express

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One of the more funny stories concerning refugees this week that the police and other agencies around Germany have found at least hundreds and probably thousands of immigrants that entered on forged passports that had not been identified as forgeries by the federal agents during processing.

truthatallcost said:

Now, many of them are vacationing to their home countries, apparently affording airfare and travel expenses to do so.

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Syria and other countries ARE dangerous.

But what it means is that there are places where you have a 5% risk to be killed every day, while in others it is 5% every year, while others are overcrowded refugees camp that are safe from bombs (for now) but suffer from criminality. And this changes often enough: maybe you had to flee your home one year ago, but maybe it is livable now. And there are places that are mostly safe for healthy adults but dangerous for children, elders and pregnant women because of a lack of heating, water, water sanitation or medicine.

So why do they go back to Syria? Certainly not for sunbathing and beaches. More probably to visit relatives, or their graves, or find them back (you may bring your wife and children to another continent but your parents are likely to stay at home). Or to see what is left of their house and neighborhood, how dangerous their city now is, and whether they could go back there, whether they can bet on the future. Most of those "tourists" are probably pondering a come back.


I am all for taking control back of our immigration and doing what we have to do to protect our countries from Islam and from the toxic Arab cultures. But many refugees' hardships are very real, if I were them I would also go to Europe for my family's sake, and I am pretty sick of the medias and parties which try to dirty them by making them look like tourists, and deny the reality of Syria.

Auvergnat said:

Syria and other countries ARE dangerous.

But what it means is that there are places where you have a 5% risk to be killed every day, while in others it is 5% every year, while others are overcrowded refugees camp that are safe from bombs (for now) but suffer from criminality. And this changes often enough: maybe you had to flee your home one year ago, but maybe it is livable now. And there are places that are mostly safe for healthy adults but dangerous for children, elders and pregnant women because of a lack of heating, water, water sanitation or medicine.

So why do they go back to Syria? Certainly not for sunbathing and beaches. More probably to visit relatives, or their graves, or find them back (you may bring your wife and children to another continent but your parents are likely to stay at home). Or to see what is left of their house and neighborhood, how dangerous their city now is, and whether they could go back there, whether they can bet on the future. Most of those "tourists" are probably pondering a come back.


I am all for taking control back of our immigration and doing what we have to do to protect our countries from Islam and from the toxic Arab cultures. But many refugees' hardships are very real, if I were them I would also go to Europe for my family's sake, and I am pretty sick of the medias and parties which try to dirty them by making them look like tourists, and deny the reality of Syria.

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For once I can voice total agreement with a post of yours.

I've highlighted the most thought-out part by bolding.

zyzygy said:

That doesn't make the story true. If a German MP does not know if it is true or not then it should be viewed with some suspicion.

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The rules in Germany are this:

Anyone that is on the dole (Germans and refugees alike, the latter needing to have been granted asylum in order to be on the dole at all) is entitled to a total of 21 days of absence per year, commonly called "holiday". In one batch or split up.

This absence has to be applied for and permitted. Background being that the job centres (by whom benefits are also paid) need to know if there are likely to be work offers during this period.

Usually benefit recipients are allowed to go.

What is not required of them is to state where they're going. Seeing that Germans are not obliged to do so, it would be a double standard to demand this of non-Germans.

That such cases are now known (of refugees visiting the countries they fled) can only be due to them having volunteered the information.

There are European regulations by which trips to the country one fled from may lead to refugee status being revoked. BUT only after case by case investigation, since pressing reasons may necessitate the visit (see Auvergnat's pertinent appraisal in his post #6).

The German paper that the Express cites makes clear mention of that latter aspect, but the Fail's cousin finds it convenient of course to leave that out.

Auvergnat said:

Syria and other countries ARE dangerous.

But what it means is that there are places where you have a 5% risk to be killed every day, while in others it is 5% every year, while others are overcrowded refugees camp that are safe from bombs (for now) but suffer from criminality. And this changes often enough: maybe you had to flee your home one year ago, but maybe it is livable now. And there are places that are mostly safe for healthy adults but dangerous for children, elders and pregnant women because of a lack of heating, water, water sanitation or medicine.

So why do they go back to Syria? Certainly not for sunbathing and beaches. More probably to visit relatives, or their graves, or find them back (you may bring your wife and children to another continent but your parents are likely to stay at home). Or to see what is left of their house and neighborhood, how dangerous their city now is, and whether they could go back there, whether they can bet on the future. Most of those "tourists" are probably pondering a come back.


I am all for taking control back of our immigration and doing what we have to do to protect our countries from Islam and from the toxic Arab cultures. But many refugees' hardships are very real, if I were them I would also go to Europe for my family's sake, and I am pretty sick of the medias and parties which try to dirty them by making them look like tourists, and deny the reality of Syria.

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Most governments frown upon refugees returning to their native country for purposes of leisure, and visiting family is a leisurely activity. These people were granted asylum based on absolute necessity, otherwise they would have to wait their turn for a chance at emigrating.

The fact that some are now returning to Syria for a quick holiday should alarm people, given the fact that these people could also be Isis recruits who are returning hone for terroristic planning.

Is it not possible that the German people have been a little too generous, and their generosity is now being taken advantage of by some of these refugees?

There were just reports of more sexual assaults in Germany, this time at the Essen Original festival, perpetrators were described as Iraqi. I bet they weren't targeting migrant girls to be groped and molested, but rather, German girls.

I see too many instances of refugees feeling as though they have the right to sexually assault German women, while being fed and housed at the expense of German taxpayers.

truthatallcost said:

Most governments frown upon refugees returning to their native country for purposes of leisure, and visiting family is a leisurely activity. These people were granted asylum based on absolute necessity, otherwise they would have to wait their turn for a chance at emigrating.

The fact that some are now returning to Syria for a quick holiday should alarm people, given the fact that these people could also be Isis recruits who are returning hone for terroristic planning.

Is it not possible that the German people have been a little too generous, and their generosity is now being taken advantage of by some of these refugees?

There were just reports of more sexual assaults in Germany, this time at the Essen Original festival, perpetrators were described as Iraqi. I bet they weren't targeting migrant girls to be groped and molested, but rather, German girls.

I see too many instances of refugees feeling as though they have the right to sexually assault German women, while being fed and housed at the expense of German taxpayers.

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Links to the reports please.

Chagos said:

The rules in Germany are this:

Anyone that is on the dole (Germans and refugees alike, the latter needing to have been granted asylum in order to be on the dole at all) is entitled to a total of 21 days of absence per year, commonly called "holiday". In one batch or split up.

This absence has to be applied for and permitted. Background being that the job centres (by whom benefits are also paid) need to know if there are likely to be work offers during this period.

Usually benefit recipients are allowed to go.

What is not required of them is to state where they're going. Seeing that Germans are not obliged to do so, it would be a double standard to demand this of non-Germans.

That such cases are now known (of refugees visiting the countries they fled) can only be due to them having volunteered the information.

There are European regulations by which trips to the country one fled from may lead to refugee status being revoked. BUT only after case by case investigation, since pressing reasons may necessitate the visit (see Auvergnat's pertinent appraisal in his post #6).

The German paper that the Express cites makes clear mention of that latter aspect, but the Fail's cousin finds it convenient of course to leave that out.

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Thank you. Of course that right wing comic the Daily Express would leave that bit out.

"Vacationing"
Code word for: Terrorist Training.


They got into Europe, were allowed to stay, and will be able to easily return after they then go back home to learn how to kill.

Roadvirus said:

"Vacationing"
Code word for: Terrorist Training.


They got into Europe, were allowed to stay, and will be able to easily return after they then go back home to learn how to kill.

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Thank you for you brilliant appraisal and the wealth of knowledge you have added here.

One can always rely on you for that.

truthatallcost said:

visiting family is a leisurely activity.

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Not when your family is endangered in a country at war, or sick or amputated in a country without sanitized water and medical resources. In those cases it is humanitarian, or medical because the constant fears for his family, and guilt from leaving, can literally drive a man crazy.

It is abusive in such a case to talk about "leisure". This severely distorts reality for propaganda purposes.

These people were granted asylum based on absolute necessity, otherwise they would have to wait their turn for a chance at emigrating.

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Once again Syria is really dangerous, therefore asylum is a humanitarian necessity.

Just because they take risks for one week, possibly during a cease-fire or a calmer period (ISIS has withdrawn), does not mean they were not really severely endangered at the time they left, or that it would not really be dangerous to stay from now on (no one knows actually). Staying one week is fifty times less dangerous than staying fifty weeks.

Is it not possible that the German people have been a little too generous, and their generosity is now being taken advantage of by some of these refugees?

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For sure many are abusing asylum. But a trip to Syria does not in any way indicates that a refugee has done so.

zyzygy said:

The key phrase in the article is "if true". If it's in the Express then it generally is not true.

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It is true, but it is not something new. It happened in the late 1990s and 2000s with Bosnian and Lebanese refugees and was some what shut down pretty fast with legislation as I am sure this will be too. And those that did do it, have to suffer the consequences and get kicked out because clearly they are no refugees but economic migrants.

WORTHLESS POLEMIC

truthatallcost said:

It appears as though many refugees were just using Germany's kindness for free money and programs. Now, many of them are vacationing to their home countries, apparently affording airfare and travel expenses to do so.

Migrants claiming asylum in Germany take HOLIDAYS in the countries they are 'fleeing' | World | News | Daily Express

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Many? How many? The Daily Mail, as usual, is making a mountain out of a mole-hill, being one the more prevalent "rags" of the British press with hysterical reporting.

In fact, the challenge in Germany, and in Europe generally, can be resumed in this Economist info-graphic titled "Who will fill the jobs?":

From the Buttonwood article at the Economist: Vanishing workers - excerpt:

Can the debt-fuelled model of growth cope with ageing populations?

THE world is about to experience something not seen since the Black Death in the 14th century—lots of countries with shrinking populations. Already, there are around 25 countries with falling headcounts; by the last quarter of this century, projections by the United Nations suggests there may be more than 100.

Such a shift seems certain to have a big economic impact, but there is plenty of debate about what that impact might be. After the Black Death a shortage of labour eventually led to a sustained rise in real wages. If that trend were repeated, it would come as a big shift after a prolonged period of sluggish wage growth, something that has fuelled political discontent across the rich world.

A new report on the demographic outlook by Berenberg, a German bank, focuses on one important measure: the dependency ratio. This compares the number of children and the elderly with people of working age (those aged 15-64). The higher the dependency ratio, the greater the burden on the workforce. In the world’s biggest economies, America apart, the workforce is set to shrink significantly (see chart).

The big question is whether economic growth and rising debt levels go hand-in-hand, or whether the former can continue without the latter. If it can’t, the future could be very challenging indeed. To generate growth in our ageing world may require a big improvement in productivity, or a sharp jump in labour-force participation among older workers. To date, the signs on productivity are not encouraging and elderly employment ratios have a lot further to go.

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The migrants are a God-send to Europe. It is by means of their massive assimilation (and entry into the work-force) that Europe will be able to "see the light at the end of the economic tunnel"!

So, to hell with the "scare-rumours" being peddled by the bigoted Rabid Right. The True Course is to assimilate these workers and obtain the economic benefit that they promise. And particularly in Germany, where high levels of retirement are drying up its workforce.

Let's all remember the Golden Rule. Pensions are not a gift of heaven - they are a government "gift" to the elderly paid out of Tax Revenues, and without economic-turnover, tax-revenues levels ultimately are lesser.

And when you are country like Germany, where women prefer to "put off" having kids in order to pursue the earned-income of a career, then the "fit hits the shan!" The phenomenon of "European Demography" is further explained in this WikiPedia article: Demographics of the European Union - excerpt:

The most populous member state is Germany, with an estimated 82.1 million people, and the least populous member state is Malta with 0.4 million. Birth rates in the EU are low with the average woman having 1.6 children. The highest birth-rates are found in Ireland with 16.876 births per thousand people per year and France with 13.013 births per thousand people per year. Germany has the lowest birth rate in Europe with 8.221 births per thousand people per year.

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When lesser tax-revenues per capita happens, so will your EU-pensions be lowered! Count on it ... !!!

PS: And England, that did not want the migrants, so they decided to go Brexit, will feel the pain of reduced tax-revenues and that same phenomenon of reduced total taxable-revenues. Truly, the Brits have made the wrong choice and at the wrong time.
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Lafayette said:

The migrants are a God-send to Europe.

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So you advocate for a Great Replacement? You want to import so many Muslims that they will amount to a large enough fraction of the workforce to offset aging? How many? Let's say you bring 30% of them, what will be the landscape after one generation given the fertility differential between the two groups?

Yet you talk about assimilation?! Cannot you see that those groups are changing our countries as much (maybe more) than we are changing them? That their cultural influence is growing and radicalizing? That our countries are slowly turning into a Franco-Islamic culture, and a Germano-islamic culture? Cannot you see that our countries are becoming ethnically divided? With a growing resent, hatred and isolation between those groups? Do you think it will end well?

Now you tell us we need those workers. No, we don't, because growth trumps aging, and because of AUTOMATION. Enterprises are buzzing with plans to destroy jobs with AI, including more and more white collar jobs, and the new generations of robots are cheaper, more versatile, easier to deploy, readily available and more and more they require less investments than workers. Initially other jobs will be recreated, to satisfy an additional but less important demand, but this demand is not that important and with enough time more and more jobs will disappear. We will be older and richer, all that while needing less labor.

Why, in such a context, would we want to import Arabs and bastardize our countries with their retrograde, hateful and violent cultures? Why would it be better to have a 80M Arabo-Germany than a 50M Germany? Power? But at whom's command?

BIGOT LOGIC

Auvergnat said:

So you advocate for a Great Replacement? You want to import so many Muslims that they will amount to a large enough fraction of the workforce to offset aging? How many? Let's say you bring 30% of them, what will be the landscape after one generation given the fertility differential between the two groups?

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You're French, I gather.

After the Great Migration of Algerians (who fought for the French in Algeria) and their families in the 1960s, what happened in France. Where was the Great Uprising of the Muslims? (Nul-part!)

They were assimilated into the population, and for the most part they live peaceful lives. The Muslim Religion is not a religion of constant strife, war and bigotry. (You are perhaps assimilating all Muslims with ISIS, which is a manifestation of a very small group that have had an ephemeral success that will soon die away - just as al-Qaeda has done.)

As I said in my last post. YOUR RETIREMENT PENSION depends upon those Muslims that will add to a market-economy workforce that is presently declining in number. If you don't want that, then out of your blindness, you are signing the death-warrant of a significant part of the future economic growth that sustains your pension! Which is sheer foolishness.

Perhaps with your bigot-logic you don't give a damn about YOUR French pension, but I do about MINE ... !
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zyzygy said:

The key phrase in the article is "if true". If it's in the Express then it generally is not true.

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Why assume it isn't true? The very same thing has happened in Canada for decades. As an example, people would arrive from Sri Lanka on "refuge" boats that floated into Vancouver harbor and after being wined and dined by Canadian immigration officials and settled nicely into Canadian society with all its benefits, many would take their new found Canadian wealth and travel back to Sri Lanka to visit relatives and no doubt let all their friends and family know what suckers Canadians are for a good sob story. Same is happening now with "refugees" from African nations and Syria.

Likewise, we have many who come to Canada to "escape" turmoil in their home countries and yet keep dual citizenship so that when they're back home in Syria or Lebanon, as an example, and trouble comes there, they can run to the Canadian consulate in that country and beg for Canada to fly them back to Canada and safety.

Immigrant tourism is a fact of life - we have medical tourism too - people who come to Canada for free medical, dental, and other care, posing as refugees, and then with a nice new smile and some surgery, they're off back home.

Roma in and from Europe are some of the worst.

You're showing ignorance if you simply dismiss such reports as false.

Lafayette said:

BIGOT LOGIC

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"Bigot", "rabid right", "racist", all sorts of meaningless scarecrows that people like you use to promote gratuitous ostracism rather than argumentation.

The situation with Islam in France is undesirable, it negatively affected France and divided it, and it is worsening. They now represent a third of the youth in Île-de-France, the ethnic fault line is widening, and you want to accelerate this.

As I said in my last post. YOUR RETIREMENT PENSION depends upon those Muslims that will add to a market-economy workforce that is presently declining in number.

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As I said in my last post, THIS IS A LIE.

Auvergnat said:

They now represent a third of the youth in Île-de-France, the ethnic fault line is widening, and you want to accelerate this.

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There are hundreds of thousand of Muslims working in different capacities in France, and they do so as willingly as do the French. Ask anyone of them who was born here and is adult if s/he feels that she is French first and Muslim second - and I am sure they would agree. Birth gives one an attachment to country that is solid.

Only a handful of rotten-apples have perpetrated the current attacks on innocent civilians.

Most of the Rabid-Right are exaggerating their bigoted sentiments simply to make a argument that has no real founding in fact. Something along the lines of "Purity of the French Nation". Which is hogwash, given that France itself, if one goes back far enough in its history, was awash with peoples of different origins long before it became "one nation".

Moreover, I have worked with peoples from across the Mahgreb (both there and here in France) and never found them particularly anti-French - at least no more so than are the French themselves against what they see as "the establishment" ... !
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Lafayette said:

There are hundreds of thousand of Muslims working in different capacities in France, and they do so as willingly as do the French.

Only a handful of rotten-apples have perpetrated the current attacks on innocent civilians.

Most of the Rabid-Right are exaggerating their sentiments simply to make a argument which has no real basis in fact.



I have worked with peoples from across the Mahgreb (both there and here in France) and never found them particularly anti-French - at least no more so than are the French themselves against what they see as "the establishment" ... !
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What about the other handfuls that support your original handful? That number is much larger than you wish to believe. And why isn't your original handful being informed on and turned into authorities?

Lafayette said:

There are hundreds of thousand of Muslims working in different capacities in France, and they do so as willingly as do the French. Ask anyone of them who was born here and is adult if s/he feels that she is French first and Muslim second - and I am sure they would agree. Birth gives one an attachment to country that is solid.

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How wrong you are! Actually only 42% of Muslims with the French nationality and living in France feel French first, while 48% feel Muslim first. I am sure the vast majority of them were born in France. Those numbers will surprise you, but not me. Pew Research

A study published today also discovered that 28% of Muslims are "ultras", most of them concentrated within the youth, which corroborates my assertion that the situation is worsening. Note that this study did not use any control factor or methodology: they take Muslims' claims at face value, even though we know that on polemic issues polled individuals tend to lie, sometimes massively. They did not either resorted to Muslim pollsters to make polled people more prone to speak openly. They also took great care to not ask too much sensible questions, such as anti-French racism, and liberally conclude that "a French Islam is possible", whatever that means.

Remarkable points that emphasize a stark contrast with the rest of the population and contradict your claims of assimilation:
* 70% "always" buy halal meat. 22% sometimes. Only 6% of self-claimed Muslims (identity) never buy halal food. This is an exceptionally high religiosity marker.
* 65% look positively at the Islamic veil. 60% think kids should be "allowed" to wear it in high school. 30% of women wear it always, possibly with exceptions for school and workplace.
* 37% think that Islam is victim of a conspiracy. If only!
* 30% think it is important to go and live in a Muslim country.
* 33% do not go to mixed swimming pools.

"Much assimilation, such Frenchness!"

Only a handful of rotten-apples have perpetrated the current attacks on innocent civilians.

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I am not discussing terrorism but their cultural influence. Terrorism is a minor problem soon forgotten, their cultural influence is a major problem that will cause severe problems for centuries.

Most of the Rabid-Right are exaggerating their bigoted sentiments (...) Something along the lines of "Purity of the French Nation"

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"Bigoted"... check.
"Rabid right"... check.
Implicit semantic comparison with Nazi vocabulary... check.

Propaganda rating: 10/10.
Critical thinking: 0/10.

coldjoint said:

What about the other handfuls that support your original handful? That number is much larger than you wish to believe.

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Pure exaggeration.

They aren't a numerous as you think. In fact, the French government puts the total number of French jihadists with ISIS at 960, one third of which are women ...

coldjoint said:

And why isn't your original handful being informed on and turned into authorities?

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What the hell do you think they do? Walk around with "ISIS" written on their backs ... ?
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Lafayette said:

They aren't a numerous as you think. In fact, the French government puts the total number of French jihadists with ISIS at 960, one third of which are women ...

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Lats time I checked the number was ten times higher. I guess you are actually only referring to those ready to perform terrorist actions.

And the number of severely retrograde assholes among Muslims is well above a million, with two or three more millions to help them spread this religion, mostly concentrated in Paris, the echo chamber of France.