French prosecutor: Women who planned attack were directed by ISIS

Celebrity · Sep 9, 2016

The reign of terror in France has not subsided. Earlier this week in a raid, three radicalized women were arrested by authorities.

Describing the women as radicalized, the three were likely planning an "imminent and violent" attack, French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said Thursday after their arrests near Paris.
A police officer was injured in the shoulder when one woman attacked him with a knife in Boussy-Saint-Antoine, southeast of Paris, Cazeneuve told reporters. The injury was not life-threatening.

So, my take on this is that, besides the actions being utterly contemptible and dangerous to society at large, we wouldn't have seen it coming five or ten years ago. I also saw something about a Burkini ban, which I assume is related to this new type of attack coming from Islamic women on Western society.

France has been under a state of emergency since the Paris terror attacks in November, and authorities have struggled to monitor thousands of domestic radicals on their radar.

I am troubled by the fact that the police found gas canisters, but no detonators or firing devices. If it was a raid, not an interrupted attack, then it's possible that these women are small fish. The article links the women to other radical Islamic terrorists by wedding engagement.

If this is to continue in and around civic centers and religious shrines, such as the Notre Dame cathedral, can we expect martial law to have an affect worship and civic duty in France? Does anyone know if France truly is in a state of martial law? There is already a curfew in place for some electronically tagged, paroled immigrant criminals.
The story from CNN.

The story from The Washington Post

A timeline of the recent string of terrorist attacks on French citizens: Timeline of Jihadi Attacks in France Since Charlie Hebdo

Gaztopian · Sep 9, 2016

Good riddance; look that trash away for good.

That aside, I think hysteria is clouding the judgement of the many in France and elsewhere. How many attacks did France have over the course of the past year? 3? Of course that's terrible and the number should be null, but it by no means justifies the hysteria engulfing France and spreading around. Let us not forget that wing nuts, being the scumbag enemies of the state that they are, fan the flame of that hysteria either to for political expediency or just to get a step closer to burning Muslims in furnaces.

Celebrity · Sep 9, 2016

Gaztopian said:
Good riddance; look that trash away for good.

That aside, I think hysteria is clouding the judgement of the many in France and elsewhere. How many attacks did France have over the course of the past year? 3? Of course that's terrible and the number should be null, but it by no means justifies the hysteria engulfing France and spreading around. Let us not forget that wing nuts, being the scumbag enemies of the state that they are, fan the flame of that hysteria either to for political expediency or just to get a step closer to burning Muslims in furnaces.

Ok, I'm not trying to get carried away with burning women and Muslims in furnaces. Still, it seems like a lot, and these jihadists are excessively violent.

Auvergnat · Sep 10, 2016

Celebrity said:
The reign of terror in France has not subsided. Earlier this week in a raid, three radicalized women were arrested by authorities.

We endured Islamic terrorism from 1973 to 1987, from 1994 to 1996, from 2001 to 2009, from 2012 to now. This will continue like this for at least a few decades and I would not be surprised if it was still a thing in the 22th century. Full list

And terrorism is only the cherry at the top of the cake, the real problem is Islamic radicalism and Arabs' cultural intolerance. Today millions of people in France live in neighborhoods dominated by Muslims, where it is dangerous to be Jew, to be gay, to be a woman, to criticize Islam. All around the world the Muslim world has been for a few decades embracing a far-right and totalitarian movement that reconstructs their identity around Islam and continues to rise and radicalize.

I also saw something about a Burkini ban, which I assume is related to this new type of attack coming from Islamic women on Western society.

No, it was related to an assault from Muslim men on a tourist who took a photo where, they thought, appeared a Muslim woman in a burkini. This then escalated into an ethnic dispute, with a group of Corsican protesters standing up in front of the City Hall to "warn Muslims".

The burkini was previously almost non-existent in France, but suddenly became a trend among Muslim women in 2016, especially in the city of Nice right after the mass killings. Which looks a lot like a deliberate provocation from radical groups.

I know that many are against us on this prohibition, in the name of individual freedom. But individual decisions have collective impacts. For example we did let the Islamic clothes spread and now hundreds of thousands of Muslim women in France are forced to wear such clothes under social pressures or intimidation. Those clothes became the new societal norm, a retrograde and oppressive norm. Laws against intimidation are not a suitable answer for individuals who suffer a whole community's pressure.

Gaztopian said:
That aside, I think hysteria is clouding the judgement of the many in France and elsewhere.

What you call "hysteria" is actually us finally starting to come back to our senses.

For decades we lied ourselves about the Islamic immigration, we underrated the problems, we prohibited measures of the problems, and we hoped those problems would eventually recess after one or two generations. But the problerms were never admissible, and they went worse because the number of Muslims became too big and because the Muslim world continued to radicalize everywhere. Now we are admitting that there is something seriously wrong in Islam and the Muslim community as a whole. They do not share our values, they hate us, they hate everyone, and it is worsening day after day because they are entrapped in something comparable to the rise of fascism in Europe before the ww2. The Muslim world is diving into a far-right totalitarian movement and they love it. Even the moderates who have the most to lose end up supporting this movement in the name of their community.

PS: it's not three attacks. I provided the full list above and you would have to add the isolated incidents, those labeled as "assault from a daranged man", but that almost always involve a Muslim attacking non-Muslims. But this spectacular violence is not even our worse problem, our real problem is with the majority of their community, the daily intimidation, assaults, rapes, criminality, social pressures, etc.

gunner · Sep 10, 2016

Celebrity said:
Ok, I'm not trying to get carried away with burning women and Muslims in furnaces. Still, it seems like a lot, and these jihadists are excessively violent.

Do you know of a peaceful Jihadi?

Chagos · Sep 10, 2016

To just address two points in an otherwise unending gish gallop

Auvergnat said:
~............................The burkini was previously almost non-existent in France, but suddenly became a trend among Muslim women in 2016, especially in the city of Nice right after the mass killings. Which looks a lot like a deliberate provocation from radical groups.

The earliest attempt to ban the burkini in France appears to date back as far as 2009. Public pool in Emerainville.

I know that many are against us on this prohibition, in the name of individual freedom..........~

Including the Conseil d’État in the case of Villeneuve-Loubet. Where addressing a single prohibition passed by just one community, the verdict has precedent character.

In the process not addressing individual freedom as much as ruling that the provocation of others and the disturbing of public order that the mayor of that community claimed, is non-existent.

For those not familiar with the French justice system, the Conseil d’État is France's supreme administrative court.
.

truthatallcost · Sep 11, 2016

Chagos said:
To just address two points in an otherwise unending gish gallopThe earliest attempt to ban the burkini in France appears to date back as far as 2009. Public pool in Emerainville.
Including the Conseil d’État in the case of Villeneuve-Loubet. Where addressing a single prohibition passed by just one community, the verdict has precedent character.

In the process not addressing individual freedom as much as ruling that the provocation of others and the disturbing of public order that the mayor of that community claimed, is non-existent.

For those not familiar with the French justice system, the Conseil d’État is France's supreme administrative court.
.

I'm not allowed to walk into a bank wearing a black ski mask. Why should others be allowed to dress in a similar fashion?

Chagos · Sep 11, 2016

truthatallcost said:
I'm not allowed to walk into a bank wearing a black ski mask. Why should others be allowed to dress in a similar fashion?

I think you lost focus here completely. Masked faces where not the issue in this context at all, what was referred to was the burkini. If you don't know what that is exactly, I suggest you research it.

Celebrity · Sep 11, 2016

Ski masks are worn on ski slopes by regular people. According to our culture, the temperature of the bank is a non-issue if banks want to throw out customers outfitted with ski masks. I find it unlikely that it would matter, since banks do not even care any more what you wear to a robbery.

truthatallcost · Sep 11, 2016

Chagos said:
I think you lost focus here completely. Masked faces where not the issue in this context at all, what was referred to was the burkini. If you don't know what that is exactly, I suggest you research it.

I'm aware of the burkini, it gets its name from combining the words burka and bikini.

I think my point is valid, if I went to a shopping mall clad from head to toe in black, with my eyes being my only facial feature that others could see, I would be ask to, and likely police would be called. Yet a double standard seems to exist relating to the burka.

coldjoint · Sep 11, 2016

Gaztopian said:
Good riddance; look that trash away for good.

That aside, I think hysteria is clouding the judgement of the many in France and elsewhere. How many attacks did France have over the course of the past year? 3? Of course that's terrible and the number should be null, but it by no means justifies the hysteria engulfing France and spreading around. Let us not forget that wing nuts, being the scumbag enemies of the state that they are, fan the flame of that hysteria either to for political expediency or just to get a step closer to burning Muslims in furnaces.

You miss the point that the culture born of the religion is intolerant. And an intolerant culture is a cancer where ever it is. Why do you think Muslims live together in ghettos or whatever you call them? Because they do not like people who are not Muslim. You will not stop terror until Muslims feel the consequenses for not stopping the terror. However that happens, if it takes hysteria, oh well.

And political change is what terrorists are after. And only a political change in France will stop them. And the furnances are an idiotic exaggeration to demean people worried about Western culture, you know enemies of the state.

Chagos · Sep 12, 2016

truthatallcost said:
I'm aware of the burkini, it gets its name from combining the words burka and bikini.

I think my point is valid,

On account of conflating two entirely different things, it isn't.

if I went to a shopping mall clad from head to toe in black, with my eyes being my only facial feature that others could see, I would be ask to, and likely police would be called. Yet a double standard seems to exist relating to the burka.

once again, the burkini does not entail a face mask.

You seem confused.

truthatallcost · Sep 12, 2016

Chagos said:
On account of conflating two entirely different things, it isn't.
once again, the burkini does not entail a face mask.

You seem confused.

If you want to dodge the double standard I've presented, I understand. If I start a thread about why burkas are permitted yet ski masks are not, I'm sure you'll just avoid that as well.

Chagos · Sep 12, 2016

truthatallcost said:
If you want to dodge the double standard I've presented, I understand. If I start a thread about why burkas are permitted yet ski masks are not, I'm sure you'll just avoid that as well.

Rich.

You screw up by conflating two completely different garments to further your spouting something unrelated and then blather on about double standards.

Be gone with you, you're wasting my time. Considering your propensity for even basing a thread of yours on a lie, you're wasting everybody else's as well.

truthatallcost · Sep 12, 2016

Chagos said:
Rich.

You screw up by conflating two completely different garments to further your spouting something unrelated and then blather on about double standards.

Be gone with you, you're wasting my time. Considering your propensity for even basing a thread of yours on a lie, you're wasting everybody else's as well.

Will mods object if we veer of the well beaten burkini path just a little? Probably not, most threads are allowed some room for broadening the discussion into subjects that can be related to the stated OP.

Chagos · Sep 12, 2016

truthatallcost said:
Will mods object if we veer of the well beaten burkini path just a little? Probably not, most threads are allowed some room for broadening the discussion into subjects that can be related to the stated OP.

Well, I don't mind at all.

And if you want to make anyone believe that the OP referenced burkinis in any way, a confirmation of your apparent confusion and the resulting lack of focus won't do any harm, I guess.

Indeed let's leave the path of discussing anything pertinent to the OP altogether by ruminating about how Germany became prosperous by defeating the Romans. Or perhaps the Muslim gang rape of a German girl with no Muslim at all being involved.

That could broaden the discussion to subjects even totally unrelated to the OP. So why bother going only half-hog when we can have "full"?

truthatallcost · Sep 12, 2016

Chagos said:
Well, I don't mind at all.

And if you want to make anyone believe that the OP referenced burkinis in any way, a confirmation of your apparent confusion and the resulting lack of focus won't do any harm, I guess.

Indeed let's leave the path of discussing anything pertinent to the OP altogether by ruminating about how Germany became prosperous by defeating the Romans. Or perhaps the Muslim gang rape of a German girl with no Muslim at all being involved.

That could broaden the discussion to subjects even totally unrelated to the OP. So why bother going only half-hog when we can have "full"?

Then you won't discuss it, ok. :mrgreen:
You'd rather concentrate on the error related to my previous post, because that's easier deal with than the hypocrisy that you're full of.

Chagos · Sep 12, 2016

truthatallcost said:
~.................. that's easier deal with than the hypocrisy that you're full of.

Do you write these things while looking in a mirror? :lamo

There's a thread on police women's attire, there's one on bathing attire. That alone makes two.

Is that the source of your confusion?:2razz:

coldjoint · Sep 12, 2016

Chagos said:
Do you write these things while looking in a mirror? :lamo

There's a thread on police women's attire, there's one on bathing attire. That alone makes two.

Is that the source of your confusion?:2razz:

Good of you not to deny your hypocrisy.

Lafayette · Sep 13, 2016

Celebrity said:
The reign of terror in France has not subsided. Earlier this week in a raid, three radicalized women were arrested by authorities.

Reign of terror? How quaint. I live in France. We are lacking rain at the moment, but not any "reign".

There is no "reign of terror" in France. Let's let the statistics speak for themselves without the hogwash about ISIS, shall we?

Meaning this: Your chances of getting killed by a firearm in the US are 16 times mine in France (where I live). That sad fact from here: List of countries by firearm-related death rate.

Read 'em and weep - because you should be worrying about how YOU in the US are likely to get shot by some deranged hothead with a firearm far, far more than I in downtown Paris.

Just like bin Laden who brought down the World Trade Center in the US 15-years ago, their inheritors (ISIS) have had a two spectacular massacres (Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan) in Paris. What happened recently was in no way proportional, because this band of incompetents made mistake after mistake after mistake. Like leaving a car full of gas-caniters parked directly in front of open restaurant blocking all passage by a car.

It was as if they wanted the police to know where the car was.

Let's not jump wildly over the sensational evening news, shall we. Most often, there is a LOT LESS to it than meets the eye. But, of course, sensation is how they sell newspapers ...
_____________

Cisero · Sep 13, 2016

truthatallcost said:
I'm aware of the burkini, it gets its name from combining the words burka and bikini.

I think my point is valid, if I went to a shopping mall clad from head to toe in black, with my eyes being my only facial feature that others could see, I would be ask to, and likely police would be called. Yet a double standard seems to exist relating to the burka.

Just so we're clear.
Now we can get back to the OP, if you wish.

Celebrity · Sep 13, 2016

Lafayette said:
Reign of terror? How quaint. I live in France. We are lacking rain at the moment, but not any "reign".

There is no "reign of terror" in France. Let's let the statistics speak for themselves without the hogwash about ISIS, shall we?

Meaning this: Your chances of getting killed by a firearm in the US are 16 times mine in France (where I live). That sad fact from here: List of countries by firearm-related death rate.

Read 'em and weep - because you should be worrying about how YOU in the US are likely to get shot by some deranged hothead with a firearm far, far more than I in downtown Paris.

Just like bin Laden who brought down the World Trade Center in the US 15-years ago, their inheritors (ISIS) have had a two spectacular massacres (Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan) in Paris. What happened recently was in no way proportional, because this band of incompetents made mistake after mistake after mistake. Like leaving a car full of gas-caniters parked directly in front of open restaurant blocking all passage by a car.

It was as if they wanted the police to know where the car was.

Let's not jump wildly over the sensational evening news, shall we. Most often, there is a LOT LESS to it than meets the eye. But, of course, sensation is how they sell newspapers ...
_____________

Forgive my ignorance, I have never been to France. Of course I know that the number of deaths in which a firearm was involved is substantially higher here, and that I have a substantially higher chance of being killed by a gunman in the US than in many other countries. Now, isn't it true that police presence has increased in France? I don't know which is worse, a reign of terror, or a military police state. Wasn't there a curfew in some towns in France in the past year, due to the imminent threat of a terrorist attack?

We have more gun deaths, your people have less control over their lives. C'est la guerre. The guerre on terror.

Chagos · Sep 13, 2016

Celebrity said:
~......................... I don't know which is worse, a reign of terror, or a military police state.............................~

You appear to be somewhat confused on what a police state looks like. That's not even addressing the concept of a military police state (is that where the MPs lock up the soldiers at night?).

Wasn't there a curfew in some towns in France in the past year, due to the imminent threat of a terrorist attack?

A curfew is generally a state of control where people are not allowed out. Maybe you could explain where you got the nonsense from of that existing in France in recent times. Or, better still, work on not randomly throwing terms around when you're not sure of their meaning.

coldjoint · Sep 13, 2016

Why don't we talk about the areas the police and others do not go. Muslim no go zones where non-Muslims are not safe and French laws are ignored. These areas are breeding grounds and safe havens for Islamists. There is no way to stop the terror as long as these areas exist. And there is no denying these zones exist not only in France but all over Europe.

So a police state cannot be where the police have no authority can it? Islam takes, it never gives and never compromises. Any agreement can be broken at anytime if it furthers Islam. That is written more than a few times in the holy literature and again undeniable. There is no great mystery except why people buy these feeble excuses from apologists.

Celebrity · Sep 13, 2016

Chagos said:
You appear to be somewhat confused on what a police state looks like. That's not even addressing the concept of a military police state (is that where the MPs lock up the soldiers at night?). A curfew is generally a state of control where people are not allowed out. Maybe you could explain where you got the nonsense from of that existing in France in recent times. Or, better still, work on not randomly throwing terms around when you're not sure of their meaning.

Is "martial law enforced by members of the military and police" more conveniently worded for your perusal? Let's not nitpick the concept of tyranny. Maybe you could explain these news tidbits:
Paris attacks: Curfews imposed for first time since forgotten 1961 police massacre of Algerians
Tourists in France to be protected by armed police and soldiers amid heightened beach security | The Independent