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French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

TheDemSocialist said:
So I will take that as a yes. You are actually comparing a woman who is covered and public nudity in attempts to justify an overreaction that exclusively targets Muslim women... And you are a "libertarian"?
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If this woman doesn't want to be banned from wearing her Burkini then she shouldn't be in France. It's really that simple. We have rules and laws that other countries think are strange. But they don't live here so they can f... off. The French have rules and laws that the people living there abide bye. It's not in America so I don't give a f... about this woman. It's really that simple. Yes, as a libertarian it's none of my business how the French impose their laws. I don't like French laws, so I don't live there. If this woman hates French laws so much then she can petition to have them changed or she can leave.
 
In the future you will see the Burka banned from all Govt Offices, beaches and public buildings.
As it should be.
The real issues in many EU countries is treating Muslims like crap.
You sideline, ghettoize a minority, expect problems.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban[/FONT][/COLOR]
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You have to be ****ing kidding me? :doh
In 2016 police are now making women take off their clothing at a beach because they are wearing too much? French men are now dictating to adult women what they are and aren't permitted to wear, justified in the name of feminism. This is sliding down a slippery slope fast.

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So if someone, like a surfer from CA shows up in a wetsuit, will they demand she remove that too? I'm a bit confused why a burkini is an issue, but presumably a wetsuit worn by an obviously white person probably isn't, though I have no proof to back that up. If I were in France, I'd buy a wetsuit and put this comparison to a test.
 
Summerwind said:
So if someone, like a surfer from CA shows up in a wetsuit, will they demand she remove that too? I'm a bit confused why a burkini is an issue, but presumably a wetsuit worn by an obviously white person probably isn't, though I have no proof to back that up. If I were in France, I'd buy a wetsuit and put this comparison to a test.
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We are talking social norms here. How ahead and go to France and do that.

Hell, wear a full burka and be a crossdresser. It's mostly a free country.
 
chuckiechan said:
We are talking social norms here. How ahead and go to France and do that.

Hell, wear a full burka and be a crossdresser. It's mostly a free country.
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I get that, but my point is that a CA woman vacationing and for some reason wearing a wetsuit probably wouldn't be bothered at all, so I don't get the burkini thing being an issue. If some were to simply be fully clothed in a single layer of fabric to swim for skin cancer reasons or such, would they also be hassled? Seems the French are doing more than a little religious profiling.
 
France is an officially secular state, with a comittment to sex equality.

The Burkini makes a religious statement, and like the burqa and the hijab, has connotations about women's inferiority that are incompatible with French values.

Go on a French beach in a wetsuit - nobody minds. If an Indian woman goes on a beach in a full sari as they do in India (indeed men in full suits can be seen on Indian beaches) - no issue as it's saying nothing about the position of women, nor is it an expression of religion.

You will see women in France flouting the face covering ban, and yes, I think they should be challenged. I don't want to have any interaction, personal, social or professional, with somebody I can't see. And it is a security risk - banks have been held up by burqa wearing men.

I don't buy the idea that the world's burqa wearing women are free thinking feminists who choose to wear a curtain. Some wear by choice - some because of pressure or fear, and that bothers me.

I have an entire family-in-law who are muslim, and none of the women are veiled. It is neither necessary nor "Islamic" per se. It's a misue of religion to oppress women.

Incidentally, I would equally say get the veils off those nuns - an expression of Christian extremism.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
France is an officially secular state, with a comittment to sex equality.

The Burkini makes a religious statement, and like the burqa and the hijab, has connotations about women's inferiority that are incompatible with French values.

Go on a French beach in a wetsuit - nobody minds. If an Indian woman goes on a beach in a full sari as they do in India (indeed men in full suits can be seen on Indian beaches) - no issue as it's saying nothing about the position of women, nor is it an expression of religion.

You will see women in France flouting the face covering ban, and yes, I think they should be challenged. I don't want to have any interaction, personal, social or professional, with somebody I can't see. And it is a security risk - banks have been held up by burqa wearing men.

I don't buy the idea that the world's burqa wearing women are free thinking feminists who choose to wear a curtain. Some wear by choice - some because of pressure or fear, and that bothers me.

I have an entire family-in-law who are muslim, and none of the women are veiled. It is neither necessary nor "Islamic" per se. It's a misue of religion to oppress women.

Incidentally, I would equally say get the veils off those nuns - an expression of Christian extremism.
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How are you treating women equally by banning them from making certain clothing choices? I understand that many times it's not by choice, but the fact that it can be means that banning it will violate some woman's choice of dress.
 
Henrin said:
How are you treating women equally by banning them from making certain clothing choices? I understand that many times it's not by choice, but the fact that it can be means that banning it will violate some woman's choice of dress.
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It's what it symbolises Henrin darling. If I want to cover my hair to look funky I wear a bandana. If I'm going to a wedding I wear a hat. Neither suggests I'm of an inferior sex.

It has been proven that in educational institutions for example, veiled girls participate less in seminars in subjects such as philosophy, sociology, political science etc. than when they're unveiled. It's a question of confidence and what the veil says about you. When the headscarves in schools row blew up here several years ago (provoked by two stupid girls who had a Jewish father and an atheist mother and who thought Islamic headware was cool!) girls with extremist fathers welcomed the ban as time at school unveiled gave them time off, and nobody welcomed the ban more than moderate muslims.

Henrin, I'm a naturist, but the only time I go naked in public is where it's approriate - on a designated naturist beach. Should I be allowed to go nude on all beaches? Or in the supermarket? Let's say I wish to do so and under French law I can't - are my freedoms being violated?
 
Urethra Franklin said:
France is an officially secular state, with a comittment to sex equality.

The Burkini makes a religious statement, and like the burqa and the hijab, has connotations about women's inferiority that are incompatible with French values.

Go on a French beach in a wetsuit - nobody minds. If an Indian woman goes on a beach in a full sari as they do in India (indeed men in full suits can be seen on Indian beaches) - no issue as it's saying nothing about the position of women, nor is it an expression of religion.

You will see women in France flouting the face covering ban, and yes, I think they should be challenged. I don't want to have any interaction, personal, social or professional, with somebody I can't see. And it is a security risk - banks have been held up by burqa wearing men.

I don't buy the idea that the world's burqa wearing women are free thinking feminists who choose to wear a curtain. Some wear by choice - some because of pressure or fear, and that bothers me.

I have an entire family-in-law who are muslim, and none of the women are veiled. It is neither necessary nor "Islamic" per se. It's a misue of religion to oppress women.

Incidentally, I would equally say get the veils off those nuns - an expression of Christian extremism.
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is ther any face covering in this case?
 
blarg said:
is ther any face covering in this case?
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Face covering is the extreme, which is illegal in public in France.

We are waiting for a decision from on high tomorrow about the burkini, and I think they'll rule that it's not illegal. However, my point is that the symbolism of hijabs and Islamic headscarves even without face covering still says something about the position of women, and is not always worn out of choice, hence that poses a dilemma to a state like France which is officially secular and has a comittment to equality.

I ordinarily have no problem with any style of dress, ethnic dress, unconventional dress, whatever. However, religious dress in public seems inappropriate to me. Islamic covering makes me feel uneasy because of what it represents. And yes, I feel the same when I see nuns with teacloths on their heads.

I have a muslim partner whose mother, aunts and sisters are not covered, hence I see first hand that it's neither essential nor necessary. All the strong, muslim women I see here in France are not veiled. I do believe there is a correlation. Yes of course there are exceptions, however.....
 
Which of these three outfits is illegal on some French beaches?

CqnJQfCUIAAxD_f.jpg:large
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Again the Burkini ban is completely unjustified. Why should there be a law that outlaws women from wearing the Burkini in public? What is the harm to society she is doing by sitting on the beach wearing that?



What about western citizens who are Muslims who wear the Burkini? And terrorist sympathizers? Really? We are going straight to playing the xenophobic bigot card?
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Where's your topic about women in the Middle East being stoned for being raped? Oh right, you only complain when a Western nation violates a women's rights.
 
Only in France can you get in trouble with the law for not showing enough skin.

Hell, if it were socially acceptable I would probably wear one. I hate sun burns and I hate sun lotion. :)
 
Manc Skipper said:
Which of these three outfits is illegal on some French beaches?

CqnJQfCUIAAxD_f.jpg:large
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This shows how ludicrous the position is, I take Urethra Franklin's point about the symbolism but my feeling is that this ban is counterproductive. The burkini doesn't cover the face and should not be banned. All it takes is some clever designer making it look more like a wetsuit and the ridiculousness of the ban will be even more pronounced.
 
PeteEU said:
The Burka is not a religious practice.. it is a tradition of some parts of the world... a tradition that is disgusting and degrading to women. It is no different that female genital mutilation, which is also not religions but a tradition.
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Oh, my! A religion expert!
 
Some additional information about the OP pictures... the woman removed her cloths by herself and was not ordered. She wanted to show that she had a bathing suit on. So it is much to do about nothing really... yes she was fined, but the police did not order her to strip and they dont in fact have the authority to do so.
 
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PeteEU said:
Some additional information about the OP pictures... the woman removed her cloths by herself and was not ordered. She wanted to show that she had a bathing suit on. So it is much to do about nothing really... yes she was fined, but the police did not order her to strip and they dont in fact have the authority to do so.
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Regarding the actual pictures in the OP...

Wearing a tunic, headscarf and leggins on a beach in Cannes will get you a visit by 4 Police Officers and a ticket issued stating that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”? Bearing in mind that I am specifically referring to the pictures of what she was wearing (which isn't anything even closely resembling a Burka), that is just beyond ridiculous.
 
PeteEU said:
From the pictures no such thing happened. She was told to remove the head scarf and shawl, and given a fine. It is against the law to wear a "burkini" on French beaches.. and I support that. There is no point at being at the beach if you are covering yourself up in that way. Want to go in water.. do it at home in your own private pool or the tub.
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There is no room for people being covered up at beach in Pete's world? Isn't that a violation of basic rights of the individual?
 
RetiredUSN said:
There is no room for people being covered up at beach in Pete's world? Isn't that a violation of basic rights of the individual?
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So you are also against those local laws that ban bikinis in the street or ban topless bathing right?
 
PeteEU said:
So you are also against those local laws that ban bikinis in the street or ban topless bathing right?
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Staying on subject..............I could care less about a fully clothed person hanging out at a beach.

It is absolutely idiotic, and a waste of taxpayer money to enforce.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Staying on subject..............I could care less about a fully clothed person hanging out at a beach.

It is absolutely idiotic, and a waste of taxpayer money to enforce.
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It is on topic... This is a local law that regulates what you can wear on the beach. In this case you cant be covered up, but else where it is you cant be topless, or you cant walk around in a bikini in town or for males.. topless. Are you against those kind of laws as well?
 
PeteEU said:
It is on topic... This is a local law that regulates what you can wear on the beach. In this case you cant be covered up, but else where it is you cant be topless, or you cant walk around in a bikini in town or for males.. topless. Are you against those kind of laws as well?
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NO......you deflected the argument Pete.

The subject is about Burkas and French hypocrisy.
 
PeteEU said:
Where in the Koran does it say that women are obligated to wear a Burka?
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That is unsubstantial and a false argument having no baring on the topic.
 
PeteEU said:
It is on topic... This is a local law that regulates what you can wear on the beach. In this case you cant be covered up, but else where it is you cant be topless, or you cant walk around in a bikini in town or for males.. topless. Are you against those kind of laws as well?
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Again, referring specifically to the incident in the pictures in the OP, the action taken there is an absolute disgrace and makes zero sense. She is not wearing a Burka and is not veiled. She's wearing a tunic, leggins and a headscarf. You are suggesting she can't be covered up in the way she was on the beach? Give me a break. How insane is that.

Are the beaches closed in winter unless you wear shorts and bikinis?
 
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