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Jeremy Corbyn fights off court challenge over Labour leadership ballot

Infinite Chaos said:
On the contrary, it seems they may be planning an alternative group.





To be devil's advocate in this, Trump has also expressed admiration for Putin or his style / leadership as have Marine le Pen, Nigel Farage and many others around the world.
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Yes, it's amazing how those on the fringes of the political spectrum all seem to love them some Putin. They are what the rest of us call Russia's 'Useful Idiots'.
 
Red_Dave said:
The latter has been allready been discussed to such a tiresome level that its barely worthy of comment but maybe you could give me a link for your first claim
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You obviously have access to the Internet, so I suggest you look it up yourself. I'd avoid those far left websites, however. They're mostly run by Putinistas.
 
Red_Dave said:
Well i guess the devil is in the details of what he actually said?

Sorry if im being pedanic about this but this annoys me. We are on the verge of being sucked into a conflict that is as complex as it is pointless at the expense of potentially tens of thousands of lives and yet anyone whose comments on the issue display any sence of nuance is demonized as a supporter of Putin.
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It's because they are supporters of Putin, either directly or as Useful Idiots.
 
Wiggen said:
You obviously have access to the Internet, so I suggest you look it up yourself. I'd avoid those far left websites, however. They're mostly run by Putinistas.
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I´ve neither the time nor the inclination to go looking for comments that don´t exist.
 
Wiggen said:
What you really mean is that since he is saying everything you agree with, why should you look for confirmation? We get it, Dave. You hate the west, you especially hate the US, and you love anybody that you see that feels the same way you do. Got it.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/jeremy-corbyn-putins-latest-useful-091450897.html
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In the two mini paragraphs devoted to what he actualy said i saw plently about Ukraine and the West, and nothing whatsoever about Putin. So again, find me something favourable he has said about Putin?
 
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Bergslagstroll said:
The Labour MPs failed miserable with the two options they had either get present members to support a challenger or recruit new members that support a challenger to Corbyn. Instead they now try to burn down the house and create a new Labour party there the party elite is in control instead of the members. This is totally crazy now that we live in a time with so much public anger against elites.
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Yeah, a similar thing is happening with both parties in the US. These people live in bubbles; it's surreal.

Bergslagstroll said:
We also live in a time with a lot of public mistrust in the collusion between economic and political elites. So it is both arrogant and stupid of the MPs to choice Owen Smith who has worked as PR chief for a biotech firm as the challenger.

Owen Smith worked as PR chief for biotech firm hit by $762m fine | Politics | The Guardian
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It's the dying gasps of Blairism. They are throwing everything at Corbyn to cling to party power, to the extent of wrecking such opposition the NuLabour Party offered existed. (many could cross the floor and be accepted as Tory) Corbyn was never populist, but he is popular among the membership.

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They are aided and abetted in their attacks by the right-wing (or fearful of it) British media.

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Coldwine said:
Yeah, a similar thing is happening with both parties in the US. These people live in bubbles; it's surreal.
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I think we now is nearing the end of the neoliberal era. That even organizations like IMF finds inequality is damaging to economic growth and also that cuts to public-sector spending having a larger detrimental effect on the economy.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/feb/26/imf-inequality-economic-growth


That left wing parties have a hard time taking advantage of this shift because the party establishments have adapted to the neoliberal paradigm. Right wing parties have also a hard time accepting and adapt to this paradigm shift. Instead we have a scary development there it is far right groups that is growing and gaining support.
 
Red_Dave said:
In the two mini paragraphs devoted to what he actualy said i saw plently about Ukraine and the West, and nothing whatsoever about Putin. So again, find me something favourable he has said about Putin?
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Now I understand this may be a complicated thing for you to grasp, since it isn't written in the simple language a 10 year old could understand, but when you spend your time criticizing the only effective opposition to the Oligarch Putin, you are supporting him. The Ukraine is a massive plot by NATO, the US, and presumably the Nazis, to undermine Putin. Gee, who else thinks that? Wait for it....wait for it....

PUTIN.
 
Wiggen said:
Now I understand this may be a complicated thing for you to grasp, since it isn't written in the simple language a 10 year old could understand, but when you spend your time criticizing the only effective opposition to the Oligarch Putin, you are supporting him. The Ukraine is a massive plot by NATO, the US, and presumably the Nazis, to undermine Putin. Gee, who else thinks that? Wait for it....wait for it....

PUTIN.
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But still, even if it were to be true; what would be strange about the Ukraine wanting to break off the pretentions of Russia's 'sphere of influence'. As a democratic nation, that is her prerogative:)
 
Wiggen said:
Now I understand this may be a complicated thing for you to grasp, since it isn't written in the simple language a 10 year old could understand, but when you spend your time criticizing the only effective opposition to the Oligarch Putin, you are supporting him. The Ukraine is a massive plot by NATO, the US, and presumably the Nazis, to undermine Putin. Gee, who else thinks that? Wait for it....wait for it....

PUTIN.
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Putin may also prefer Shostakovich to Tchaikovsky, doesnt mean that anyone else that feels the same way particularly likes the guy. Negative comments about Stalin are not possitive comments about Hitler. Negative comments about Pol Pot are not possitive comments about Ho Chi Minh
So again Post possitive comments that Corbyn has made about Putin
 
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gunner said:
But still, even if it were to be true; what would be strange about the Ukraine wanting to break off the pretentions of Russia's 'sphere of influence'. As a democratic nation, that is her prerogative:)
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Then why does Crimea not have a right to leave Ukraine?
 
Bergslagstroll said:
I think we now is nearing the end of the neoliberal era. That even organizations like IMF finds inequality is damaging to economic growth and also that cuts to public-sector spending having a larger detrimental effect on the economy.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/feb/26/imf-inequality-economic-growth

That left wing parties have a hard time taking advantage of this shift because the party establishments have adapted to the neoliberal paradigm. Right wing parties have also a hard time accepting and adapt to this paradigm shift. Instead we have a scary development there it is far right groups that is growing and gaining support.
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I think that the most crippling part is that the left has adopted the materialist paradigm. In a worldview in which a 'man' is an aggregate of meat, muscle, and nerves, the side which sees him as a disposable cog in a larger societal machine will have a distinct advantage. They are fighting an uphill battle on hostile terrain. When gains are all measured materially, the neoliberals are going to win every time.
 
Coldwine said:
I think that the most crippling part is that the left has adopted the materialist paradigm. In a worldview in which a 'man' is an aggregate of meat, muscle, and nerves, the side which sees him as a disposable cog in a larger societal machine will have a distinct advantage. They are fighting an uphill battle on hostile terrain. When gains are all measured materially, the neoliberals are going to win every time.
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You can of course have philosophical discussion about man and his place in society and the world, but I don’t think that the most crippling part is that the left has adopted the materialist paradigm.

That it is now then the social democratic parties have turned to right over the last couple of decades that they more and more accepted and adopted GDP growth and increased production as the main goal for society. Just like the right wing parties.

While if you look at more traditional Social democrats like for example Ernst Wigfors, minister of finance in Sweden during the 30's and 40's, he instead made this quote,

"If the goal of society would be that all worked to the maximum, we would be insane. The goal of the society is that we should dismiss us from work and free up time for it to compliment life: Art, music, theater, dance, poetry, everything you wants to do with his life."

That increased productivity, efficiency and automation should lead to more time to enjoy life. In Sweden we have a gradual increase free time up to the 1970’s. For example, 1970 the workweek was reduced to 40 hours instead of 48 hours. In 1978 we also got the last increase in vacation time and got 5 weeks’ vacation.

Instead it after the rightwing turn of the party and the Swedish society over the last couple of decades that it hasn’t been any real increases in free time, but maybe we now have a paradigm shift. Because we have more and more trials with six hour workdays. There six-hour workday can both be good for the individual, the employer and society.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/21/b...-shorter-workdays-into-bigger-gains.html?_r=0
 
Bergslagstroll said:
You can of course have philosophical discussion about man and his place in society and the world, but I don’t think that the most crippling part is that the left has adopted the materialist paradigm.

That it is now then the social democratic parties have turned to right over the last couple of decades that they more and more accepted and adopted GDP growth and increased production as the main goal for society. Just like the right wing parties.

While if you look at more traditional Social democrats like for example Ernst Wigfors, minister of finance in Sweden during the 30's and 40's, he instead made this quote,

"If the goal of society would be that all worked to the maximum, we would be insane. The goal of the society is that we should dismiss us from work and free up time for it to compliment life: Art, music, theater, dance, poetry, everything you wants to do with his life."

That increased productivity, efficiency and automation should lead to more time to enjoy life. In Sweden we have a gradual increase free time up to the 1970’s. For example, 1970 the workweek was reduced to 40 hours instead of 48 hours. In 1978 we also got the last increase in vacation time and got 5 weeks’ vacation.

Instead it after the rightwing turn of the party and the Swedish society over the last couple of decades that it hasn’t been any real increases in free time, but maybe we now have a paradigm shift. Because we have more and more trials with six hour workdays. There six-hour workday can both be good for the individual, the employer and society.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/21/b...-shorter-workdays-into-bigger-gains.html?_r=0
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I like the sound of 6 hour work days :)

Unfortunately, I work in an industry where the working day is much longer, sometimes as much as 16 hours.
 
gunner said:
I like the sound of 6 hour work days :)

Unfortunately, I work in an industry where the working day is much longer, sometimes as much as 16 hours.
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That sounds tough hope you have a fun job at least. :)

One other reason for shorter workdays is also the rapid robotizing and automation of jobs and tasks. That else you instead risk an increase in the number of unemployed. You have also the risk that the profits from robotizing and automation mostly goes to company owners and the highest earners. Because the employers bargain power over employees can increase then they can threaten to replace the workers with either unemployed or robots.

Therefor you have to find ways so that robotizing and automation is beneficial to workers and society as a whole. There as I mention one solution can be shorter workdays.
 
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