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Conservative PM battle reaches new low.

Infinite Chaos said:
OK guys, I may not be on the hard right end of the Conservative party but them's fighting words when you run my party down. :spank:

I feel Theresa May should be our next PM though the position really will be a poisoned chalice unless she has a plan to develop industry and redistribute wealth across the nation to see more development.

I think however, the conservative membership will, like the Labour Party support the fringe and push Leadsom onto us. She's wet behind the ears but her support for Brexit will win over the older voters just as this message won over the older voters in the referendum.
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Problem is that Leadsom cant win a general election. May can. Yes Labour is in almost as much chaos as the Tories, but if Leadsom starts to push ultra conservative social policy and the typical anti-NHS and so on policies that the Tory anti-EU traditionalists have been asking for, for the last 20 years... then Labour will win the next election.

Oh on another front - Leadsom's team is making an official complaint against the times but BBC just played a recording of Leadsom saying exactly what she says has been misrepresented?
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Damage is done.. beyond done. And she is being exposed as a liar.. not a good start. But will it matter for the hardcore Tory members? We shall see.
 
PeteEU said:
Problem is that Leadsom cant win a general election. May can. Yes Labour is in almost as much chaos as the Tories, but if Leadsom starts to push ultra conservative social policy and the typical anti-NHS and so on policies that the Tory anti-EU traditionalists have been asking for, for the last 20 years... then Labour will win the next election.



Damage is done.. beyond done. And she is being exposed as a liar.. not a good start. But will it matter for the hardcore Tory members? We shall see.
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Being exposed as a liar means nothing in politics.
 
PeteEU said:
Problem is that Leadsom cant win a general election. May can. Yes Labour is in almost as much chaos as the Tories, but if Leadsom starts to push ultra conservative social policy and the typical anti-NHS and so on policies that the Tory anti-EU traditionalists have been asking for, for the last 20 years... then Labour will win the next election.



Damage is done.. beyond done. And she is being exposed as a liar.. not a good start. But will it matter for the hardcore Tory members? We shall see.
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She's really got her finger on the Tory party's fluttering pulse...

Cm9ft_0XYAAmYcm.jpg:large
 
PeteEU said:
Problem is that Leadsom cant win a general election. May can.
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Leadsom would appeal to those who voted Brexit no matter the consequences to themselves or their country. May was hardly a strong Reman contender but I honestly think the Conservative members will go with Leadsom. She's the only one who could overcome that strong loyalty tendency which saw the end of Heseltine in the past and Gove and Johnson recently.

Conservatives don't tend to like those who bring a leader down but Brexit (I feel) overrides that.

PeteEU said:
~ Damage is done.. beyond done. And she is being exposed as a liar.. not a good start. But will it matter for the hardcore Tory members? We shall see.
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At the moment, Gove is taking more heat for what he's been up to.

We shouldn’t laugh, because the consequences for us all are uniquely terrible, but one minor footnote to the Tory leadership ballot is that in the second round, with five candidates having been whittled down to three, Michael Gove’s votes actually decreased by two, down from 48 to 46, and as such he will forever after be known as Britain’s worst political serial killer.
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Only hardline Brexit Conservatives are defending him with regard to him being exposed as a serial backstabber of senior or powerful conservatives. It's been a bit like watching a Roman bloodbath to see who would take over the empire.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
OK guys, I may not be on the hard right end of the Conservative party but them's fighting words when you run my party down. :spank:

I feel Theresa May should be our next PM though the position really will be a poisoned chalice unless she has a plan to develop industry and redistribute wealth across the nation to see more development.

I think however, the conservative membership will, like the Labour Party support the fringe and push Leadsom onto us. She's wet behind the ears but her support for Brexit will win over the older voters just as this message won over the older voters in the referendum.

Oh on another front - Leadsom's team is making an official complaint against the times but BBC just played a recording of Leadsom saying exactly what she says has been misrepresented?
Click to expand...

While I'm cool with the fact of it being a fight between two women candidates, good for the Tories on that score, I'm seriously underwhelmed by the choice.

May has been a mediocre Home Sec at best. She's alienated the police force almost to the point of rebellion; she's been the minister in charge of immigration policy, and forgive me if I don't believe that's been a resounding success; there's chaos in the prison sector; and she's decimated the probation service. Now she's being called 'a safe pair of hands'.

Leadsom is a political novice and demonstrated that by her ridiculous outrage at The Times, who quoted her verbatim. She's now had to apologise for her outburst. She's a hard-right ideologue and corporate shill. She's got a CV (resumé) that makes claims of expertise that she clearly doesn't have, and she's equivocating about publishing her financial records. Even Gove didn't trip up on that one. She's not convincing the staunchest of the Tory media either.

I've no idea what the blue-rinse Tory membership will decide. I do know that whoever will lead the Brexit negotiations will not be doing so with the interests of all British people at heart.
 
Andalublue said:
While I'm cool with the fact of it being a fight between two women candidates, good for the Tories on that score, I'm seriously underwhelmed by the choice.

May has been a mediocre Home Sec at best. She's alienated the police force almost to the point of rebellion; she's been the minister in charge of immigration policy, and forgive me if I don't believe that's been a resounding success; there's chaos in the prison sector; and she's decimated the probation service. Now she's being called 'a safe pair of hands'.

Leadsom is a political novice and demonstrated that by her ridiculous outrage at The Times, who quoted her verbatim. She's now had to apologise for her outburst. She's a hard-right ideologue and corporate shill. She's got a CV (resumé) that makes claims of expertise that she clearly doesn't have, and she's equivocating about publishing her financial records. Even Gove didn't trip up on that one. She's not convincing the staunchest of the Tory media either.

I've no idea what the blue-rinse Tory membership will decide. I do know that whoever will lead the Brexit negotiations will not be doing so with the interests of all British people at heart.
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Ah, you're behind the times Andy.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/258086-andrea-leadsom-quits-race-conservative-leadership.html
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Ah, you're behind the times Andy.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/258086-andrea-leadsom-quits-race-conservative-leadership.html
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Oh wow! Yup, I've been battling with an effed up Interflora online ordering service for much of the morning. :)

I think the combined effect of her silly Times spat, dodgy financials and sexed-up CV must have caught up with her.

So, the Tories don't even get to elect their new leader any more than the British electorate get to choose their PM. Democracy at its finest! :mrgreen:
 
Can't resist copying this of mine over from another thread
Chagos said:
You're probably aware of it anyway, yet large parts of the "continent" (certainly Spanish, French and German friends of mine that comment) are wondering how the hell EU could ever work even as badly as it's doing, with such an idiot member a part of it.

Comment being made to me in a joshing manner of course but one of them well acquainted with English culture, sayings and songs has pointed out that down here it's actually NOT the dogs that go out in the midday sun. :mrgreen:
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So all the fervently pro-Brexiters are now in limbo, leaving us with a prospective PM that opposed it. Congratulations on having taken democracy back.

If I should ever turn my passport in, it'll be less out of fear of otherwise losing residence rights but more out of embarrassment.:mrgreen:
 
Too late to buy into British soap, I hear stocks are soaring far too much.:roll:
 
It's getting weirder still. PM-in-waiting (can't say "elect" as she wasn't) has just given a speech that lies somewhere to the left of half the labour opposition! I smell a quick election. TM has occupied the ground that the Blairites would have taken if they split Labour....
 
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Manc Skipper said:
It's getting weirder still. PM-in-waiting (can't say "elect" as she wasn't) has just given a speech that lies somewhere to the left of half the labour opposition! I smell a quick election. TM has occupied the ground that the Blairites would have taken if they split Labour....
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With Labour being in the disarray we see, if there's ever a time for May to get the final unequivocal mandate of "elected", it's certainly now.
 
Chagos said:
With Labour being in the disarray we see, if there's ever a time for May to get the final unequivocal mandate of "elected", it's certainly now.
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I think that they think that waiting another 3 months for a GE campaign to resolve itself would probably damage their negotiating position during the Brexit talks. I wonder how long it's going to take PM May to trigger Article 50 notification. And if her first action isn't to sack the clueless Oliver Letwin from the Brexit negotiating ministry we'll see that she isn't really serious about getting a good deal.

She SHOULD call a GE, but I'm pretty sure she won't.
 
Andalublue said:
I think that they think that waiting another 3 months for a GE campaign to resolve itself would probably damage their negotiating position during the Brexit talks.
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..............damage beyond which state? Today's?

With nobody having even the slightest idea of what results any post-Brexit negotiations will achieve, I'd hold that issue to be pretty negligible right now.
I wonder how long it's going to take PM May to trigger Article 50 notification. And if her first action isn't to sack the clueless Oliver Letwin from the Brexit negotiating ministry we'll see that she isn't really serious about getting a good deal.
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That's equally an issue that can be shelved IMHO.
She SHOULD call a GE, but I'm pretty sure she won't.
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I'd hold it to be bleddy stupid if she didn't. Because, no doubt winning it with the current disarray of the opposition, she'd lay to rest the lurking numbers of those still opposed (to her). The Tory PM's being not as much the problem as the Tory members.

Seeing it from the perspective of all of these shysters, "the people be damned, but let's get their mandate anyway".

Won't be another opportunity like right now.
 
Chagos said:
~ I'd hold it to be bleddy stupid if she didn't. Because, no doubt winning it with the current disarray of the opposition, she'd lay to rest the lurking numbers of those still opposed (to her). The Tory PM's being not as much the problem as the Tory members.
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Don't underestimate how deep the split is within the Conservative party over Europe. She won't go to the country unless she wields the party around her. I was surprised to see that Chris Grayling and Liam Fox were strong backers of hers but she wasn't the strongest of Remain contenders before the referendum.

We're in very interesting times and things will continue in mad chaotic style for at least another 6 months.
 
She was much more vocal in demanding that Gordon Brown go to the country when he was anointed P.M. than she was as a "remainer" I wonder if she'll change her mind on such validation by the electorate?
 
Manc Skipper said:
She was much more vocal in demanding that Gordon Brown go to the country when he was anointed P.M. than she was as a "remainer".
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Her team have made the argument tonight that she cannot just call a snap GE, she has to get a two-thirds majority in the House to call one, so Labour would have to agree. They certainly wouldn't do that until their leadership issue is resolved.

I wonder if she'll change her mind on such validation by the electorate?
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A week is an awfully long time in politics, but when it comes to political memory, 9 years might as well be a century.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Don't underestimate how deep the split is within the Conservative party over Europe. She won't go to the country unless she wields the party around her. I was surprised to see that Chris Grayling and Liam Fox were strong backers of hers but she wasn't the strongest of Remain contenders before the referendum.

We're in very interesting times and things will continue in mad chaotic style for at least another 6 months.
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Chaos in the Labour and UKIP parties - and in your name IC. But not in the Conservative Party which will have a new Prime Minister in place within three weeks of the referendum. Seems pretty efficient to me.

May will form a unity government with both Leavers and Remainers in top positions. This could see the end of the decades long feuds within the Conservative party over the EU; time will tell.

The UK elects a House of Commons, not a PM. A PM is the person who can form a government able to get majority votes for its important policies so there is absolutely no constitutional requirement for an election. Under the fixed-term parliament law a PM has no right to call an election whenever she likes btw.

(One important advantage that May has in assuming office is the benefit of a one-to-one conversation with me which lasted all of four or five minutes - OK so this was about ten years ago but the good effects may be lasting).
 
Sweden said:
Chaos in the Labour and UKIP parties - and in your name IC. .~
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and that's not even mentioning in your line of thought.

Where I've edited the above quote for both brevity and for the sake of pertinence, the last line is indeed priceless.

I'm thankful that your talk with May didn't last 5 hours and suspect that so is she.:mrgreen:
 
Chagos said:
and that's not even mentioning in your line of thought.

Where I've edited the above quote for both brevity and for the sake of pertinence, the last line is indeed priceless.

I'm thankful that your talk with May didn't last 5 hours and suspect that so is she.:mrgreen:
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You are devoid of any sense of humour Chagos, the concept of a joke at one's own expense is far outside your narrow-minded limitations. Just one reason your comments are so tedious.
 
Sweden said:
Chaos in the Labour and UKIP parties - and in your name IC. But not in the Conservative Party which will have a new Prime Minister in place within three weeks of the referendum. Seems pretty efficient to me.
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Time will tell, if she brings people like Gove into her govt she needs an armour plated back.

Sweden said:
May will form a unity government with both Leavers and Remainers in top positions. This could see the end of the decades long feuds within the Conservative party over the EU; time will tell.
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Thatcher, Major and then Cameron's govt all included leavers and remainers in top positions and divisions brought them all down. The only thing that may save her is that she wasn't the most ardent remainer so can compromise with both sides.

Manc Skipper said:
It's getting weirder still. PM-in-waiting (can't say "elect" as she wasn't) has just given a speech that lies somewhere to the left of half the labour opposition! I smell a quick election. TM has occupied the ground that the Blairites would have taken if they split Labour....
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Was that the one where she talked of workers on boards etc?

That was reported as being straight from Ed Miliband's manifesto at the last election.
 
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Sweden said:
You are devoid of any sense of humour Chagos, the concept of a joke at one's own expense is far outside your narrow-minded limitations. Just one reason your comments are so tedious.
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:mrgreen:
 
Sweden said:
(One important advantage that May has in assuming office is the benefit of a one-to-one conversation with me which lasted all of four or five minutes - OK so this was about ten years ago but the good effects may be lasting).
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The weekend she spent with me had a more lasting effect.
 
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