That little matter of paying for access to the EU Single Market

Michael Fuchs said:

"It will be possible, of course, but not for free - you have to see with Norway, with Switzerland, you have to pay a certain fee. And the per capita fee of Norway is exactly the same as what Britain is now paying into the EU. So there won't be any savings." Link.

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Yet another thing for those of us who doubted the veracity of Brexit's claims, I will admit it took me time to get to see this myself as I saw a United "United Kingdom" might have been able to argue for free access with little or no cost but not when Scotland and Northern Ireland may head off into the distance. Meanwhile several City jobs will be transferring over to Paris, Dublin or Frankfurt branches as the financial passport for dealings with the EU start to shift across.

The UK public that voted Brexit for economic, sovereignty and trade purposes thought they were getting a Rolls Royce and instead will get a dilapidated Austin Allegro. Obviously those extremists who just want all non white anglo saxons deported immediately don't care as long as they think they are one step nearer to that dream.

Infinite Chaos said:

Yet another thing for those of us who doubted the veracity of Brexit's claims, I will admit it took me time to get to see this myself as I saw a United "United Kingdom" might have been able to argue for free access with little or no cost but not when Scotland and Northern Ireland may head off into the distance. Meanwhile several City jobs will be transferring over to Paris, Dublin or Frankfurt branches as the financial passport for dealings with the EU start to shift across.

The UK public that voted Brexit for economic, sovereignty and trade purposes thought they were getting a Rolls Royce and instead will get a dilapidated Austin Allegro. Obviously those extremists who just want all non white anglo saxons deported immediately don't care as long as they think they are one step nearer to that dream.

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If the UK plays the EU right, they will no longer have to trigger article 50 in three or four years. The EU will be forced to make major changes to the structure and legal process to keep anti EU parties at bay. The EU people know this and are weeing their pants for fear that England is still a member, when these negotiations take place. Brexit has put these guys in a tight corner and they think they need to act swiftly. Nope. The Brits can play this without moving an inch.

joG said:

If the UK plays the EU right, they will no longer have to trigger article 50 in three or four years. The EU will be forced to make major changes to the structure and legal process to keep anti EU parties at bay. The EU people know this and are weeing their pants for fear that England is still a member, when these negotiations take place. Brexit has put these guys in a tight corner and they think they need to act swiftly. Nope. The Brits can play this without moving an inch.

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But that is not what the UK voted on. They wanted out of the EU to get rid of all those nasty Eastern Europeans and other nationalities that are unclean. So that means leaving the EU as fast as possible, kicking out all EU citizens and not getting any deal with the EU. THAT is what the Brexit camp ran on!

PeteEU said:

But that is not what the UK voted on. They wanted out of the EU to get rid of all those nasty Eastern Europeans and other nationalities that are unclean. So that means leaving the EU as fast as possible, kicking out all EU citizens and not getting any deal with the EU. THAT is what the Brexit camp ran on!

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So a landslide victory in the UK (a 4% margin) is solely because all of those people are simply racist. Must be nice to live in such a simple world. Sounds a lot like how people view things here in the U.S. It doesn't matter why someone supports x, y, z, because we are going to call them racist anyways.

Fishking said:

So a landslide victory in the UK (a 4% margin) is solely because all of those people are simply racist. Must be nice to live in such a simple world. Sounds a lot like how people view things here in the U.S. It doesn't matter why someone supports x, y, z, because we are going to call them racist anyways.

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Are you responding to something you read on another forum and simply confused that with this thread?

Fishking said:

So a landslide victory in the UK (a 4% margin) is solely because all of those people are simply racist. Must be nice to live in such a simple world. Sounds a lot like how people view things here in the U.S. It doesn't matter why someone supports x, y, z, because we are going to call them racist anyways.

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First of all it is not a landslide victory.. you need more than 4% to claim that.. far more.

Secondly.. racist.. no. Xenophobic? yes, but that is the bull**** that has been spoonfed them by British print media over 20+´years. If you dont believe me, then go read British print media from the Rupert Murdoch group newspapers to the Daily Mail and Mirror over the last 20+ years. Anti-EU, anti-Europe, pro British horse**** over and over again. Sensationalistic news blaming foreigners for everything. It is the EU migrants fault that the NHS is under strain.. not Westminster.. It is the EU migrants fault that Brits are too lazy to take minimum wage jobs.. not the way Westminister has set up the welfare state... the list goes on and on.

Fishking said:

So a landslide victory in the UK (a 4% margin) is solely because all of those people are simply racist. Must be nice to live in such a simple world. Sounds a lot like how people view things here in the U.S. It doesn't matter why someone supports x, y, z, because we are going to call them racist anyways.

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The embassy of Poland has already reported on an avalanche of Anti-Polish incidents so the notion that part of the UK public has done so out of racist/xenophobic motivations cannot be denied.

joG said:

If the UK plays the EU right, they will no longer have to trigger article 50 in three or four years ~

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There's no government that would last that long and the market instability would mean pretty much all major employers would be gone by then.

Infinite Chaos said:

There's no government that would last that long and the market instability would mean pretty much all major employers would be gone by then.

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It needn't be one government. But listening to the prime ministers just now sounded like this is, where we are headed. They said all the things they had to under the circumstances. But the substance looks as though they will immediately start reworking the EU rules and wait till UK decides to trigger. Till then, UK is full voting member.
I suspect the agreement with UK is that UK isn't to obvious about it.

Infinite Chaos said:

There's no government that would last that long and the market instability would mean pretty much all major employers would be gone by then.

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The premise you're responding too is idiotic anyway. What would last even less is, as you already address, business. None is going to base its even medium term investment model (let alone a long term one) on parameters as insecure as would result from shenanigans like such.

Add to that the completely under-industrialized status of Britain and its substitute reliance on financial services and in the long run she can (and will have to) elect yet another new government on practically a yearly basis. Until, that is, the prevailing uncertainty is finally addressed by either getting off the pot finally or using it what it's there for.

By which time industry and commerce will have ensconced themselves in far distant and unreachable pastures, long after any government we now see either side of the Channel (including Brussels) is gone.

To harbor such infantile ideas (as you responded to) bears a certain irony wrt the often raised claim (by many) of how business will not allow political disruption to destroy its interests. There is truth in that of course, inasmuch as it will use its clout to preclude that. But where it cannot induce governments to cut the crap, it'll kick them to the curb at the first opportunity presenting itself. And the utopian pipe dream presented coming true would provide plenty of opportunities.

There is indeed a big wide world out there. Another irony in that being the constant invocation of this simple truth by the fools of today. They're right but they don't know what it really implies.

Chagos said:

~ What would last even less is, as you already address, business. None is going to base its even medium term investment model (let alone a long term one) on parameters as insecure as would result from shenanigans like such ~

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Agreed, particularly large businesses. Smaller business however may just have to learn to suck it up and see even as they are the 80% of the total of business which does not export to the EU apparently.

Chagos said:

Are you responding to something you read on another forum and simply confused that with this thread?

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LOL.

Infinite Chaos said:

Agreed, particularly large businesses. Smaller business however may just have to learn to suck it up and see even as they are the 80% of the total of business which does not export to the EU apparently.

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Oh definitely. But they're not the ones anybody cares about, are they? Not in England, not in Brussels and not in any of the European capitals of nations that are highly industrialized.

A mistake IMO but we're addressing realities here.

LOL.

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Yeah, it must be silly season or sumpin'

Saw a great quote today... Cost of EU membership a year 9 billion... loss on RBS stocks since Brexit ... 8 billion and counting.

Add to that a credit rating butchering by a full point by Moodies (AAA to AA), plus Barclays possibly needing a bailout due to Brexit pressures (and other banks as well).. and you have a serious problem brewing. You have no government, and a BOE that is limited on what it can do. A falling pound is cutting away British overseas pensions, which will mean overseas pensioners might return home adding to the costs of the NHS and pressures... The Budget deficit is set to explode I suspect.

Chagos said:

Are you responding to something you read on another forum and simply confused that with this thread?

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No, I responded to another poster. I used the quote function and everything.

PeteEU said:

Saw a great quote today... Cost of EU membership a year 9 billion... loss on RBS stocks since Brexit ... 8 billion and counting.

Add to that a credit rating butchering by a full point by Moodies (AAA to AA), plus Barclays possibly needing a bailout due to Brexit pressures (and other banks as well).. and you have a serious problem brewing. You have no government, and a BOE that is limited on what it can do. A falling pound is cutting away British overseas pensions, which will mean overseas pensioners might return home adding to the costs of the NHS and pressures... The Budget deficit is set to explode I suspect.

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Plus Brit low-cost airlines plummeting (pun intended).

Brit pensioners may have to walk home

Fishking said:

No, I responded to another poster. I used the quote function and everything.

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Uh-okay.

Then there is another reason.

PeteEU said:

First of all it is not a landslide victory.. you need more than 4% to claim that.. far more.

Secondly.. racist.. no. Xenophobic? yes, but that is the bull**** that has been spoonfed them by British print media over 20+´years. If you dont believe me, then go read British print media from the Rupert Murdoch group newspapers to the Daily Mail and Mirror over the last 20+ years. Anti-EU, anti-Europe, pro British horse**** over and over again. Sensationalistic news blaming foreigners for everything. It is the EU migrants fault that the NHS is under strain.. not Westminster.. It is the EU migrants fault that Brits are too lazy to take minimum wage jobs.. not the way Westminister has set up the welfare state... the list goes on and on.

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4% is a pretty big margin for something as controversial as this. For example, Obama was said to have crushed Romney and the spread was 51.1% to 47.2% of the popular vote.

Secondly (to you secondly), I don't deny that that played a roll but 52% of the population? I find that hard to believe. Also, I don't think that anyone is saying that immigration is the cause of all the problems but it is the cause of some of the problems. In a sense, immigration can also be seen as a tertiary issue that simply helps highlight the issue of EU overreach. When a country loses the ability to control it's boarders, they really don't have much control of anything.

Peter King said:

The embassy of Poland has already reported on an avalanche of Anti-Polish incidents so the notion that part of the UK public has done so out of racist/xenophobic motivations cannot be denied.

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No doubt. I just don't think it's 52%. Would that be me thinking too highly of Brits? I don't think so.

Chagos said:

Plus Brit low-cost airlines plummeting (pun intended).

Brit pensioners may have to walk home

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They can ride share in the left hand drive cars that the Spanish police impound gladly will sell cheap...

Fishking said:

4% is a pretty big margin for something as controversial as this. For example, Obama was said to have crushed Romney and the spread was 51.1% to 47.2% of the popular vote.

Secondly (to you secondly), I don't deny that that played a roll but 52% of the population? I find that hard to believe. Also, I don't think that anyone is saying that immigration is the cause of all the problems but it is the cause of some of the problems. In a sense, immigration can also be seen as a tertiary issue that simply helps highlight the issue of EU overreach. When a country loses the ability to control it's boarders, they really don't have much control of anything.

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Sorry 4% is only 500k votes swing out of 30+ million. Add to that the possible hundreds of thousands of voters who could not vote due the flooding and overseas Brits who never recieved their ballot, and then 4% aint a lot.

Plus I would argue that if the vote were held today, then it would swing the other way and remain would win by far more than 4%. More and more are regretting their vote and more and more are realizing that the Vote leave campaign lied to them on immigration.

Fishking said:

No doubt. I just don't think it's 52%. Would that be me thinking too highly of Brits? I don't think so.

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Hence my comment "part" of the UK public, not half, almost all, a large part. Simply part of the UK public, a few percent maybe nothing more but sadly the Brexit seems to have emboldened those racists.

Infinite Chaos said:

Yet another thing for those of us who doubted the veracity of Brexit's claims, I will admit it took me time to get to see this myself as I saw a United "United Kingdom" might have been able to argue for free access with little or no cost but not when Scotland and Northern Ireland may head off into the distance. Meanwhile several City jobs will be transferring over to Paris, Dublin or Frankfurt branches as the financial passport for dealings with the EU start to shift across.

The UK public that voted Brexit for economic, sovereignty and trade purposes thought they were getting a Rolls Royce and instead will get a dilapidated Austin Allegro. Obviously those extremists who just want all non white anglo saxons deported immediately don't care as long as they think they are one step nearer to that dream.

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Yeah, except none of that will happen. Neither Ireland nor Scotland will leave the UK - they cannot financially afford to do so. Nor can they afford to do so position wise. Neither would be anything but the smallest of EU nations with absolutely no pull against the bigger client states. They will go from being part of the world's fifth largest economy to being, separately, so far down the list they'd be sucking wind.

Let them hold their breath til they turn blue, this is nothing but show.

clownboy said:

~ Neither Ireland nor Scotland will leave the UK - they cannot financially afford to do so. ~

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Ireland left a long time ago... If you're talking NORTHERN Ireland, they are not united enough to go as a region and if you looked at local politics the proposal would be to join the Ireland that left a while ago. I'm sort of repeating stuff said in the main Brexit thread...

As for Scotland read the Brexit thread. In short however, can Scotland afford to stay part of the UK is more likely the question.

clownboy said:

Yeah, except none of that will happen. Neither Ireland nor Scotland will leave the UK - they cannot financially afford to do so. Nor can they afford to do so position wise. Neither would be anything but the smallest of EU nations with absolutely no pull against the bigger client states. They will go from being part of the world's fifth largest economy to being, separately, so far down the list they'd be sucking wind.

Let them hold their breath til they turn blue, this is nothing but show.

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Ireland cannot leave because it already left. And Scotland can leave if they want to, they have a right to self determination too.

Fishking said:

No doubt. I just don't think it's 52%. Would that be me thinking too highly of Brits? I don't think so.

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One can safely work, methinks, on the premise that not all leave voters are (were) xenophobes but that all xenophobes voted leave.

Nevertheless the "foreigner flood" card was not played solely by Farage and his scums, Boris (possibly the PM-to-be) made use of it as well. Echoing already existing prejudices and feeding them in the process. Neatly detracting from the reality that the "precariate" would find best address for its complaints in the existing political class (of all leanings), by throwing it the convenient whipping boy that always finds enthusiastic acceptance.

"Everybody always needs somebody to look down on......."