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Something worrying in Scotland's largest mosques

Same as when the Irish, Italians, Greeks, Germans and such emigrated. Lived in same neighborhoods.
How welcoming were the German of the Turkish guest workers?
The Ghettos that have risen also come from no jobs, being treated as non citizens, yet have lived in say Belgium for 50 years.
Many people stay in the same neighborhoods because of the familiar culture and language surrounding them, It happens everywhere and is not necessarily a bad thing. And governments cannot realistically force people to move from these 'ghettos', aka neighborhoods..
 
Many people stay in the same neighborhoods because of the familiar culture and language surrounding them, It happens everywhere and is not necessarily a bad thing. And governments cannot realistically force people to move from these 'ghettos', aka neighborhoods..

Or it can be govt policy.
Long article. Note how it reinforced black ghettos, affected income, health, education, and other things.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/redir...betrayed-a-landmark-civil-rights-law#comments
 
And ended in 2013...with the ouster of Morsi and mass arrests of the Brotherhood leaders and followers...and shutting down their offices and newspapers, seizing their assets. The group was outlawed and officially designating as a terrorist organization.
“We came close to annihilation once under Nasser, but this is worse,” said Gehad el-Haddad, a Brotherhood official now on the run, referring to former President Gamal Abdel Nasser’s attempt to smash the group after he came to power in 1954.." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt
The Arab League was formed in 1945.
They went under the surface in Egypt in 2013 but the MB still has access to the White House. Muslim Brotherhood Leader Meets Obama in White House

What's more important is the way the MB has morphed into OIC and who now holds tremendous power in the UN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Islamic_Cooperation
 
Or it can be govt policy.
Long article. Note how it reinforced black ghettos, affected income, health, education, and other things.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/redir...betrayed-a-landmark-civil-rights-law#comments
And here is Nixon's reason. In a 1972 "eyes only" memo to Ehrlichman and H.R. Haldeman, another aide, Nixon explained his position. "I am convinced that while legal segregation is totally wrong that forced integration of housing or education is just as wrong," he wrote.

What's really wrong is limiting education for Black children in these neighborhoods, and this the politics behind the Teacher's Unions.Obama Wrong on D.C. School Vouchers and Hypocritical, Just Like Congress - US News
 
Just in time to fight 3 wars with Israel.
Muslims, despite being the third major religion to arrive on the scene, are claiming the Middle East as their own. They are now wiping out those of other faiths, mostly Christians, and we know their hatreds of Israel and Jews as well, all the way from the Koran.
 
They went under the surface in Egypt in 2013 but the MB still has access to the White House. Muslim Brotherhood Leader Meets Obama in White House

What's more important is the way the MB has morphed into OIC and who now holds tremendous power in the UN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Islamic_Cooperation


Apparently, the first link was about a meeting at the WH with the Iraqi Parliament Speaker Usama al-Nujaifi, seen pictured shaking hands with Obama in the photo. Altikriti, a British lobbyist with ties to Hamas was serving as his translator and is not seen shaking hands with Obama. The meeting was to discuss Al Qaeda in Iraq. So who or where was the MB in that meeting?

OIC has 57 members out of which 56 are member states of the United Nations in their own right. Iow, the members are countries and MB is not a country or a state. I seriously doubt the MB morphed into the OIC considering that Egypt is a member state of OIC and UN ...and recently sentenced thousands of MB to death and imprisoned their leaders...much to the chagrin of many human rights organizations.
 

Much to Sec. Kerry's credit, he condemned the HRC's resolution. The article doesn't say if OIC is a member of the UN human rights council

“No one in this room can deny the bias against Israel in the U.N. Human Rights Council,” said Kerry, addressing a meeting of the U.N. organization shortly before he was scheduled to join envoys from five other world powers to resume nuclear talks with Iran....

“It must be said: the HRC’s obsession with Israel actually risks undermining the credibility of the entire organization,” Kerry added. “It has the potential to limit the good we can accomplish.”

Kerry promised that the United States would work to defeat anti-Israel resolutions it considers “arbitrary.”

“The United States will oppose arbitrary efforts to delegitimize Israel,” he said. “Not just in the U.N. Human Rights Council, but wherever it occurs.”...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e8f2d2-9ac5-4408-bf7f-031674cc1a0d_story.html


I fail to see a direct connection of the WH to the MB to the UN. That was your claim, wasn't it?
 
Muslims, despite being the third major religion to arrive on the scene, are claiming the Middle East as their own. They are now wiping out those of other faiths, mostly Christians, and we know their hatreds of Israel and Jews as well, all the way from the Koran.

In contrast, Muslims have also protected Christians. Of course, I'd like to see more stories like these...

Viral Photo Shows Muslims Protecting Church in Egypt as Congregants Attend Mass Amid Threat of Attack

Pakistani Muslims Form Human Chain To Protect Christians During Mass (PHOTOS)

http://www.newsweek.com/muslims-defend-christians-during-al-shabab-militant-attack-kenya-407859

Cameroon: Christians and Muslims Unite Against Boko Haram - allAfrica.com

ASIA/PAKISTAN - Muslim leaders defend Christians: the abuse of blasphemy is to be punished
 
I read sometime ago that Muslims in Scotland integrated much better, and it was possibly, down to the fact that being 'Scottish' was part of the success. That is, a firm identity, and they were joining something distinct. Unlike South of the border, where we are wrestling with an identity problem. Furthermore, feverish adherence to multiculturalism in its most destructive form, leave the Muslim community to carry on the customs of their place of birth, and make sure they pass on their archaic traditions.

Only this week, the Scots have celebrated Scottish Jews:"For over 300 years Scots Jews have waited for their own tartan and now - here it is!The official Jewish Tartan is an authentic Scottish tartan created by Heritage Experts and Rabbis."

Scottish Jews finally have their own tartan after a 300 year wait* | Daily Mail Online

The Scots are not afraid to celebrate who they are :)

I think Scottish muslim integration vs English muslim integration is quite a complex picture; certainly a smaller proportion of muslims to the general population and most importantly the background of the muslims who arrived - I believe most Scottish muslims come from the Punjab and came to work in health and education while we imported poorer muslims from more backward regions to work in the cotton industry etc.

I think I've said in the past that I used to meet may well to do Scottish muslims on the trains (when I used to travel to Liverpool to pick up my kids), they were in business, doctors etc and had built up prosperous lives here. The poorer muslims in Bradford, Rochedale etc settled into squalid ghettoes and when their industries died, they had few prospects.

Scottish identity plays a part - apparently there was a Scottish muslim tartan too, designed in 2010. The same Glasgow Central Mosque which now hosts a couple of jihadi preachers conducted marriages where the muslim men wore kilts and bagpipes were played at the ceremonies.

To me, what it's showing is that the insidious reach of jihadi extremists is reaching all corners of our muslim population. I think turning around the situation in Scotland will be easier - there is an educated well to do population with more to lose than those living in areas where jobs are few and far between. We also need to be so much tougher on preachers with any links to extremist groups - why are they continuing to preach? Why are they allowed anywhere near a religious building in the first place?

Those run down areas of the UK need developing - not just for the muslims but also for the indigenous population, govt policy to really extend economic wellbeing to the regions is really important but we now need a more muscular schooling policy - to put it bluntly, Scotland took in more forward thinking muslims while we didn't. The prospects of all those in poor run down areas will only change when they are educated in strictly secular forward thinking schools which are committed to raising citizens who will be part of the UK and who have prospects in a wider UK. That will take investment and attracting the best school teachers and then making sure all the kids (black, white, etc) have higher expectations put on them all with the support to make that happen.
 
Apparently, the first link was about a meeting at the WH with the Iraqi Parliament Speaker Usama al-Nujaifi, seen pictured shaking hands with Obama in the photo. Altikriti, a British lobbyist with ties to Hamas was serving as his translator and is not seen shaking hands with Obama. The meeting was to discuss Al Qaeda in Iraq. So who or where was the MB in that meeting?

OIC has 57 members out of which 56 are member states of the United Nations in their own right. Iow, the members are countries and MB is not a country or a state. I seriously doubt the MB morphed into the OIC considering that Egypt is a member state of OIC and UN ...and recently sentenced thousands of MB to death and imprisoned their leaders...much to the chagrin of many human rights organizations.
The OIC is the second largest NGO in the world, after the UN itself. How do you suppose it gained the influence to name Israel as the top women's violators in the world? Do you believe that's the truth? It's ridiculous on the face of it but that's the sort of power these people wield.

In fact the names these people use is secondary to the ongoing religious and political philosophies they maintain. Let's recall that when the MB took over Egypt Obama was encouraging them with money and weapons.
 
I'd like to see more stories like that too, and this is usually the point where everyone acknowledges that 'not all Muslims are terrorists'.. But we should speak up against those who are, or those who sympathize with their means and ends.

With all those links you sent Christians are still being snuffed out. Neither the 'good' Muslims or the western countries are doing enough to save and rescue these people. We must stop making excuses for them but instead, like the subject of this thread, be sure they respect their host countries with their cultures, laws and traditions. We cannot have parallel laws and cultures and hope everyone can somehow muddle through. This only encourages the 'not so good' Muslims.
 
The OIC is the second largest NGO in the world, after the UN itself. How do you suppose it gained the influence to name Israel as the top women's violators in the world? Do you believe that's the truth? It's ridiculous on the face of it but that's the sort of power these people wield.

In fact the names these people use is secondary to the ongoing religious and political philosophies they maintain. Let's recall that when the MB took over Egypt Obama was encouraging them with money and weapons.

You seem to have the OIC confused with the HRC. They're not the same organization.
 
I dropped in to have a look and felt I could add something to this.

Part 1

The majority of our Muslims come from Pakistan. I think the police said the Ahmadiyya in Scotland is about 1% of Scottish Muslims.

One difference which has not been mentioned has been the difference of the Government of Scotland to our Muslims and that of England to theirs. Another appears to be that Scottish Nationalism does not seem to lead to more Muslim hatred but English does.



Good community relations mean young Muslims in Scotland eschew extremism


Unlike in England, there is mutual respect between the Scottish government, the Muslim communities and the police

…..
I grew up in Edinburgh and have always seen myself as a Scottish Muslim. Rehan Raza, president of the Muslim Youth League UK, believes there is mutual respect between the Scottish government, the Muslim communities and the Scottish police. As a result, he says: “Our Muslim community [in Scotland] is much stronger than it is in England.”

According to a 2011 study of the experience of Scottish Muslims by the Scottish government, there is evidence to suggest English nationalism has an impact on whether a person expresses “Islamophobic” attitudes, whereas Scottish nationalism does not appear to. Cameron’s accusation that Muslim authorities in Britain are to blame for the “radicalisation” of British citizens who then go to fight for Islamic State is self-defeating and only fuels radicalisation. Young Muslims in Scotland are less attracted to the call of extremism. Only one of the 600 people reported to have left Britain for Syria appears to have come from Scotland.


Good community relations mean young Muslims in Scotland eschew extremism | Hajra Rahim | Society | The Guardian

He goes on to say that his initial fear that moving to London would result in experiencing more prejudice prove not to be so but he does not where a hijab. He then points out that he notices the stares given to his cousin who does wear one

I do see how differently my cousin, a young woman in a hijab, is stared at as we walk around London’s streets. It’s something I’m not accustomed to in Scotland – and it speaks volumes about social acceptance.

The article also points out that only 1 out of 600 known Muslims to have gone abroad to fight are known to be Scottish. The number I think is a bit higher and the known Scottish number, if we include the Glasgow girl most will know about, is two.

Really what he is talking about here is very basic social science. If you want people to integrate include them, treat them as your own and by the Scottish Muslim Community feeling it does not suffer discrimination from the Government and police they are able better to work with them and that makes them as a community much stronger – I would add of course a stronger community is going to be able better to protect itself against extremism.

We find in Scotland after there has been a terrorist attack abroad rather than talk about how Scotland can strenghten itself against it's own Muslims, the Government will make an announcement that the police will be on the look out for people taking action against our Muslims for the actions of extremists abroad and come down very heavily on anyone who does. That does not of course mean Scotland is free of thugs and the Nov Paris attack resulted in over 60 attacks in Scotland on innocent Muslims.

In some way it is a small point but it is an extremely important one. The writer says Salmond in particular worked on making sure our Muslim community knew the Government was there with them and not blaming them for extremism abroad and that is so and this is such a vitally important point.
 
Part 2

Now to the extremism mentioned in the OP in Glasgow Mosque. Glasgow Mosque is in a situation of some conflict at the moment but it is not between moderate and extremist Muslims it is between whether the Mosque adopts a liberal or conservative position. There was massive coverage of the suggested extremist link of Imam Maulana Habib Ur Rehman to the Pakistan Group but never, that I heard of, any suggestion that this kind of speech was what came out of the mosque. The argument was it was not acceptable for a Glasgow Imam to have any sympathy for extremists even if that was kept well out of Scotland. The Imam himself said what he said had been taken totally out of context and all he had protested about was the death sentence which he does not believe in. It would appear from the link I will give shortly on Aamer Anwar, human rights lawyer, that this may well be the truth as the police after their investigation are taking no further action. Anwar says in this he was on the side of the Imam due to the extremist abuse the imam received before any investigation had been made.

Imam Maulana Habib Ur Rehman has insisted his comments were taken out of context, and on Friday Police Scotland confirmed that they are no longer investigating.

Anwar added: “The fact is that there is an empathy between me and the Iman because in fact I was horrified by the abuse that he too has received. There are a small number of individuals who claim they are against extremism, then want to attack and violently abuse an individual - that is nothing to do with Islam. Words can incite violence, can cost lives.”


Read more at High profile Muslim lawyer gets death threats from Islamic extremists after calling for unity - Daily Record[/quote]

I think that is an important point he puts.

I did a search to see the papers telling how the police had found nothing to investigate but there was nothing. That is not news.

Now to the final thing which shocked all of Scotland last week – the murder for religious reasons of the much loved and respected Asad Shah. The man who killed him is a Muslim from Bradford. The police believe that he travelled up from Bradford for the express purpose of killing Mr Shah.


If you read the article linked above you will discover that all of Scotland's Muslims came together to condemn the killing of Asad Shah – putting aside for a while the differences occuring at Glasgow Mosque between the liberal and conservative factions.

However you will also see from the above link that Aamer Anwar himself received death threats this week for his call in response to the killing of Mr Shah for all Muslims of all demoninations to stand up in unity against extremism. He says it is not the first time he has received such threats but particularly with the killing of Asad Shah he has felt the need to make this public and to inform the police so that they can make a proper investigation. He appears to be taking the threats very seriously. It is not evident whether he fears an extremist element in Scotland or one coming from England. Nothing more has been said, It is for the police to find out.

To me the murder of Asad Shah – resulting in two vigils and a collection of over £111,000 online for his family (after a hope of receiving £1,500 to help with funeral expenses), the accusation towards the Imam of Glasgow Mosque which has now been dropped, the reality that in Glasgow Mosque there is dispute as to how it should go between liberal and conservative rather than extremist and moderate and the further investigations which will now be going on into threats towards Scottish Muslins whether from Scotland or England does illustrate that Scotland's Muslims are strong and resiliant and working together well with both the Government and the police to protect themselves and the rest of Scotland from extremism....and yes they have their own tartan since 2012 though for modesty reassons the kilt must be 1” longer. They also were determined when building th Glasgow Mosque in the 80's to make sure it illustrated itself as Scottish.

The thistle and the crescent | The Economist


Here Baroness Warsi speaks about how Scotland has been able to unite different cultures into a feeling of unity through the way it addresses it's culture and strong action against racism. It is a bit cheeky but it also makes the point well.
Scotland's 'tartan with a turban' culture can teach the English how to beat fascism, says Muslim peer - The Scotsman

I am not intending on coming back to post. I just thought this was a serious issue which could do with the inclusion of more information.
 
There was a period where most of the UK's extremist jihadi problems could be shown to be based around London, Birmingham and a few other major cities with Scotland showing the way to integrate and have a peaceful muslim community (excepting the airport bombers) but there are growing signs that the leadership in Scotland's largest mosques are themselves part of a wider problem.

This also, though possibly not linked to the brutal murder by another muslim of Asad Shah (who practiced the peace loving Ahmadiyya version of islam) in Glasgow does add to a picture of growing extremism if not a showing up of extremists in Scotland. The Ahmadiyya sect had to move their headquarters to the UK after they were hounded in Pakistan and India and are hated for being peace loving and wishing to integrate.

Anyhow, more pressure on our security forces and now for Scotland's; they need to be more proactive to prevent any atrocities happening as a result of these guys.

There is no such thing as a peaceful and integrated Muslim community.
 
Scotland also had a considerably less diverse population, less immigration and less ethnic groups migrating into it.
Comparing cities like London/ Birmingham to Edinburgh/ Glasgow is like comparing apples to potatoes.
Of course Scotland is deemed friendlier and producing less extremists. It's less extreme because it's prominently white.
 
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