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Europe: Yes! EU: No!

Carjosse said:
.......What?
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Well, technically that is so. Thousands (plural) is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration but ever since the first invaders that ever provided Britain with an overall monarchy tried to force the lands whence they came into it as well, the French have been somewhat pissed off.

Sulky frog eating buggers, eh wot? :mrgreen:
 
So you equate EU membership and integration with raping and sacking? Interesting accidental admission. How low an esteem one side of this seems to be taking.

And if we're bastards, you no doubt became an expat through the shame of it! Saying bastard, in agreement, also highlights your arrogance as they are illigitimate. Well, we're here to stay! Independence is no denial of genetic or societal past, which also tells something about your line of argument. Or, perhaps, character.
 
Higgins86 said:
The troubles didn't spread to the republic it was mostly fought in northern Ireland and occasionally the mainland.
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Ah, history starts after the 1920s.

I'll have to make a note of that.
 
Chagos said:
Where undoubtedly true, how at all does this relate to what I pointed out?

Classical non-sequitur, methinks.
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The idea of Britain being on a continental drip to me suggested that you thought we have been historically reliant on Europe.
 
Higgins86 said:
I'm not European and I don't no many fellow countrymen that would ever refer to themselves as European.
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I think you are out of touch with what majority feeling is in the UK, Higgins. You are a self-confessed forces brat. You've been immersed in the jingoism of military rhetoric your whole life. That is NOT a reflection on what most British people feel or believe. I'd say the vast majority recognise themselves as European - for some of them before feeling British, for others a long way after, but they still recognise it. I suspect those people you 'no' (sic) might all be similarly indoctrinated in that archaic form of nationalism that is virtually obligatory in the armed forces.

Let us not forget that we as a nation have been at odds with the European continent for thousands of years.
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Well, we've certainly been invaded many times and have done our fair share of rapine and pillage, but which European nation hasn't? That kind of defines us as a quintessential European people. Are you saying our culture, language and society isn't European?

I think you're in some kind of weird denial.
 
Andalublue said:
I think you are out of touch with what majority feeling is in the UK, Higgins. You are a self-confessed forces brat. You've been immersed in the jingoism of military rhetoric your whole life. That is NOT a reflection on what most British people feel or believe. I'd say the vast majority recognise themselves as European - for some of them before feeling British, for others a long way after, but they still recognise it. I suspect those people you 'no' (sic) might all be similarly indoctrinated in tEuropeansic form of nationalism that is virtually obligatory in the armed forces.

Well, we've certainly been invaded many times and have done our fair share of rapine and pillage, but which European nation hasn't? That kind of defines us as a quintessential European people. Are you saying our culture, language and society isn't European?

I think you're in some kind of weird denial.
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On the contrary Andy I think you're out of touch with most working/ middle class Brits if you think people are walking around Woking, Birmingham, Manchester etc referring to themselves as Europeans. We are an island nation and that mentality of us vs them is still massively self evident with the recent rise in UKIP and the continued election of the Conservatives.
Ask Gunner or IC if they are British or European and I'd be shocked if they said the latter.
 
Now said:
So you equate EU membership and integration with raping and sacking? Interesting accidental admission. How low an esteem one side of this seems to be taking.

And if we're bastards, you no doubt became an expat through the shame of it! Saying bastard, in agreement, also highlights your arrogance as they are illigitimate. Well, we're here to stay! Independence is no denial of genetic or societal past, which also tells something about your line of argument. Or, perhaps, character.
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Oh boy, simmer down willya?

If it's any relief, I'll take the bastid part back and just stick to mongrel. I was thinking in Spanish and another language where the term I used can mean both things (illegitimate also).

One can reasonable apply the term (mongrel, so don't get your panties in a wad again) to virtually any other nation on earth, none being as pure as they deem themselves to be (not even contemplating the meaning of purity here).

Jezzazz, try switching to decaf.
 
Yup, We're British, or English or Irish or Scots or Welsh. That's our immediate nationality.

Peoples who are members of the continent of Europe. Not this bunch of political narcissitic monomaniacs.

Saying the EU is Europe is just like Hess saying Hitler was Germany because Hitler ruled it.
 
Higgins86 said:
The idea of Britain being on a continental drip to me suggested that you thought we have been historically reliant on Europe.
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Well, wrt people I'd uphold that but then who in Europe hasn't? ;)

I didn't intend to imply "economically" or "politically".
 
Now said:
Yup, We're British, or English or Irish or Scots or Welsh. That's our immediate nationality.

Peoples who are members of the continent of Europe. Not this bunch of political narcissitic monomaniacs.

Saying the EU is Europe is just like Hess saying Hitler was Germany because Hitler ruled it.
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Nice equation.

What like EU = Hitler.:roll:

Poor Godwin, he never intended this.
 
Higgins86 said:
On the contrary Andy I think you're out of touch with most working/ middle class Brits if you think people are walking around Woking, Birmingham, Manchester etc referring to themselves as Europeans. We are an island nation and that mentality of us vs them is still massively self evident with the recent rise in UKIP and the continued election of the Conservatives.
Ask Gunner or IC if they are British or European and I'd be shocked if they said the latter.
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I'd propose that when questioned on nationality most within the EU would have French, German, Spanish (etc.) come to mind first of all.

European coming in only second.

Arabs used to call me a Frank not that long ago.

Altogether I'd agree on the peculiarity of island nations though (said as much) and I see nothing overly dramatic in that.
 
Higgins86 said:
On the contrary Andy I think you're out of touch with most working/ middle class Brits if you think people are walking around Woking, Birmingham, Manchester etc referring to themselves as Europeans.
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Ask anyone, "Are you a European?" and I reckon 75%+ will say yes.

We are an island nation and that mentality of us vs them is still massively self evident
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In your military-related circles perhaps.

with the recent rise in UKIP
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A political fad already on the decline and, post-June, a busted flush. I'll be surprised if they even field candidates in 2020.

and the continued election of the Conservatives.
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Two-thirds of whose MPs are campaigning to remain.

Ask Gunner or IC if they are British or European and I'd be shocked if they said the latter.
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Both ex-military, so hardly representative of the British populace as a whole. Why didn't you include MancSkipper, UrethraFranklin, and Alexa?
 
There's no Godwinning involved. To Godwin is an arbitrary invocation of Nazism.

I made a valid point of false identification, on the other hand.
 
Andalublue said:
Ask anyone, "Are you a European?" and I reckon 75%+ will say yes.

In your military-related circles perhaps.

A political fad already on the decline and, post-June, a busted flush. I'll be surprised if they even field candidates in 2020.

Two-thirds of whose MPs are campaigning to remain.

Both ex-military, so hardly representative of the British populace as a whole. Why didn't you include MancSkipper, UrethraFranklin, and Alexa?
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1. Have you even been to the UK... in fact a better question have you been outside of London if you have been to the UK because trust me the capital and the rest of the country are completely different.

2. England/UK has been an independent nation which has not been invaded once for almost 1,000 years that is if you knew history.

3. UKIP are regularly polling around 16% in the polls up from 12% they scored in the 2015 general election only a few months ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

4. The mayor of London/justice sec/work and pensions sec and other prominent people within the Conservative party are campaigning to leave.
 
Andalublue said:
Ask anyone, "Are you a European?" and I reckon 75%+ will say yes.

In your military-related circles perhaps.

A political fad already on the decline and, post-June, a busted flush. I'll be surprised if they even field candidates in 2020.

Two-thirds of whose MPs are campaigning to remain.

Both ex-military, so hardly representative of the British populace as a whole. Why didn't you include MancSkipper, UrethraFranklin, and Alexa?
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75% plus? Absurd number Andy. Fact this is a country you have long felt disenfranchised by and like many others you come up with this narrative for the rest of us. It's the same narrative that celebrated the death of Thatcher and tried to make out she is and was universally hated despite the fact she was in power for over a decade. Now the narrative is that Cameron is hated and that the majority of the UK want to stay in the EU. This is a fantasy and I think that many guardian readers are in for a rude awakening when the voting starts.
 
Higgins86 said:
75% plus? Absurd number Andy. Fact this is a country you have long felt disenfranchised by and like many others you come up with this narrative for the rest of us. It's the same narrative that celebrated the death of Thatcher and tried to make out she is and was universally hated despite the fact she was in power for over a decade. Now the narrative is that Cameron is hated and that the majority of the UK want to stay in the EU. This is a fantasy and I think that many guardian readers are in for a rude awakening when the voting starts.
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Being ethnically European which I am is different from saying you are European just like an American says they are an American, it is a joke. Cameron is actually hated even by a lot of his own party but there are a lot more people that want to come out of the EU than want to stay.
 
PakPuk said:
Being ethnically European which I am is different from saying you are European just like an American says they are an American, it is a joke. Cameron is actually hated even by a lot of his own party but there are a lot more people that want to come out of the EU than want to stay.
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His party are positioning themselves for the handover of the party. It has no real reflection on Cameron. It's just politics.
 
Higgins86 said:
His party are positioning themselves for the handover of the party. It has no real reflection on Cameron. It's just politics.
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Yes people who he considered friends are now stabbing him in the back because they think they can have a coup in the party when we leave the EU. Cameron is a fake Conservative and a liar who would sail the UK down sh*t creek.
 
PakPuk said:
Being ethnically European which I am is different from saying you are European just like an American says they are an American, it is a joke. Cameron is actually hated even by a lot of his own party but there are a lot more people that want to come out of the EU than want to stay.
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It would be such a pity to lose one's power over the EU. Why not force change from within?
 
joG said:
It would be such a pity to lose one's power over the EU. Why not force change from within?
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Power? The other members out vote the UK all of the time. As one nation we only have a small number of MEP's which are basically irrelevant in setting the agenda as that all comes from the unelected commission.
 
PakPuk said:
Yes people who he considered friends are now stabbing him in the back because they think they can have a coup in the party when we leave the EU. Cameron is a fake Conservative and a liar who would sail the UK down sh*t creek.
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No he said before he wouldn't run for a third term.
 
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