• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Far-Right Anti-Merkel Rises in Germany... The right-wing populists of Europe...

Carjosse said:
What misinformation, I have looked into this and researched more extensively than most people ever will. That is even how it is defined in my textbooks. In the traditional left-right spectrum that is what Nazis are. Nazis have similar populist agendas to socialists but exceptions are made to those of the right race or ethnicity and equality, one of the core tenants of socialism is thrown out of the window.
Click to expand...
It seems to me people don't care about material reality so long as they can relate people they don't like to nazis
 
Carjosse said:
The last time the far right became popular in Germany. You might be familiar with the man and what he did, Hitler.
Click to expand...

Any country that sees itself being invaded by a hostile enemy has the right to defend itself. Who would even argue that Iraqis or Afghanis were wrong to pick up arms and fight when they saw a foreign force invade them?

Germany is finally waking up to what's really going on, the results won't be pretty as Germans are very good at revenge.
 
Sweden said:
And Erich Honecker would be proud of your ability to distort what people have said.
Click to expand...

Can you quote what Frauke Petry actually said to correct Serenity then? That would help dispel the "myth" she advocates shooting people crossing a border. Strange - even the far right govt of Hungary wouldn't take that step.

Serenity said:
I make no apology for not being ok with some lunatic suggesting that refugees fleeing from a war zone might need to be shot if they attempt to cross into Germany. That is just crazy talk.
Click to expand...

It's a sign of the times that posters can support the shooting of refugees and those who find that disgusting are the ones who come under attack.
 
Carjosse said:
That is how the Nazis started too.
Click to expand...

Getting people to vote for them is also how every party in every democratic country started. AfD are not in any way, shape or form similar to the Nazis.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Can you quote what Frauke Petry actually said to correct Serenity then? That would help dispel the "myth" she advocates shooting people crossing a border. Strange - even the far right govt of Hungary wouldn't take that step.



It's a sign of the times that posters can support the shooting of refugees and those who find that disgusting are the ones who come under attack.
Click to expand...

Petry talked about pointing guns, not firing them. There is a difference. The difference between being alive and dead, for example.
 
Sweden said:
Petry talked about pointing guns, not firing them. There is a difference. The difference between being alive and dead, for example.
Click to expand...

A link would help?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
A link would help?
Click to expand...
It's already been covered here at length.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/245887-keep-simple-shoot-refugees-another-afd-meltdown.html

Petry, much as she's tried to undo her words since, made no such distinction between pointing and firing (guns).

Let alone did her deputy, other then prevaricating, correct her FB comments. What she did say was that she expressed herself in a way that could lead to misunderstandings and held a technical fault responsible ("my mouse slipped" :roll:).

Now that not only speaks for the party's radicalism, it speaks far more for the stupidity of its leaders. von Storch clearly doesn't have a slipping tongue, she has a slipping mouse.:lamoRumor has it that she's been shopping for a Freudian firewall since.:mrgreen:

I don't come to this forum that often anymore so I'll just end for today on the note that the AfD of the past was at least an anti "common currency" party of eurosceptic stance. Backed, whether one agreed with them or not, by some expertise in its more prominent founders being possessed of some economic expertise, all the way to holding degrees and professorships.

They've all been ousted by Petry's coup to take over and make the party a collection ground for nationalism, xenophobia and the neo-Nazis that do not hold any other promising platform. Xenophobia now being practically the only program on offer and clear cluelessness reigning on any or all other political issues.

As so often we have those on here that know little to nothing of Europe but do not find that a deterrent to spouting forth on what they don't know.

One of the reasons (but neither the only nor the main one) for my not making much time anymore.

:)





 
MickeyW said:
MANNHEIM, Germany — In the current tussle for the future of Germany, Frauke Petry is what you might call the anti-Angela Merkel.
From Our Advertisers

Where Ms. Merkel, the chancellor, has welcomed refugees, Ms. Petry, a rising far-right leader, has said border guards might need to turn guns on anyone crossing a frontier illegally.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/10/w...nts-spawns-rise-of-far-right-leader.html?_r=0
Click to expand...

I saw this news quite a while ago on RT that AfD was on the rise

https://www.rt.com/news/333241-afd-spy-watch-minister/

As of recent AfD is rising, because they are going to put Germany first.

Here is an RT article, with a few numbers in Local Elections.

https://www.rt.com/news/334836-afd-german-local-elections/
 
Abbazorkzog said:
"Anarchy" is not right or left. What planet are you from?
Click to expand...
Anarchy is an absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
 
Carjosse said:
You are different left-right political spectrum then, I use the traditional one with stuff like Nazism being far-right and Communism being far-left.
Click to expand...

Then you are using the wrong one.
 
Carjosse said:
"According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics, in liberal democracies, the political Right opposes socialism and social democracy. Right-wing parties include conservatives, Christian democrats, classical liberals, nationalists and, on the far Right, racists and fascists."
Click to expand...

And it's wrong which doesn't surprise me.. because it's British view of what fascism is. The same country where the BNP is more like the old Labour party (before Tony Blair) and rejects Thatcherism.
 
Carjosse said:
What misinformation, I have looked into this and researched more extensively than most people ever will. That is even how it is defined in my textbooks. In the traditional left-right spectrum that is what Nazis are. Nazis have similar populist agendas to socialists but exceptions are made to those of the right race or ethnicity and equality, one of the core tenants of socialism is thrown out of the window. It is how it is defined and was imagined at the time.
Click to expand...

In the traditional left-right spectrum is the dumbest scale to ever use as it's based on assumptions. I can be conservative and liberal at the same time... and be a Libertarian. But where is that on the traditional left-right spectrum? Oh wait it's not. The spectrum is based upon biases of political elite at the time of it's development. Why you ask? Because Fascism is a "dirty" word and you paint the other side as a Fascist/Nazi and you win the "political" battle.

A Fascist/Nazi are actually just Economic Socialist who are racist. That's all.
 
austrianecon said:
In the traditional left-right spectrum is the dumbest scale to ever use as it's based on assumptions. I can be conservative and liberal at the same time... and be a Libertarian. But where is that on the traditional left-right spectrum? Oh wait it's not. The spectrum is based upon biases of political elite at the time of it's development. Why you ask? Because Fascism is a "dirty" word and you paint the other side as a Fascist/Nazi and you win the "political" battle.

A Fascist/Nazi are actually just Economic Socialist who are racist. That's all.
Click to expand...

They are both authoritarian but the part of the difference is like you said racism, but that is only a part of it. The larger difference that puts Nazism and Fascism on the right is their idea of social hierarchy and social Darwinism. The core value of the left is equality, those closer to the centre support John Stuart Mill's equality of opportunity while the extreme of communism goes for total equality. The right disapproves of this idea believing that people are inherently unequal and need to add meaning themselves, at the extreme this means the mass extermination of certain member of society. Nazism became the farthest right on the scale you could go as ethnic cleansing for no reason other than to eliminate them is the logical furthermost step you can go from absolute equality.
 
austrianecon said:
Anarchy is an absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
Click to expand...

Yes, I realize this. Some poor soul was trying to spin Anarchy as being right-wing... SMDH.
 
Chagos said:
It's already been covered here at length.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/245887-keep-simple-shoot-refugees-another-afd-meltdown.html

Petry, much as she's tried to undo her words since, made no such distinction between pointing and firing (guns).

Let alone did her deputy, other then prevaricating, correct her FB comments. What she did say was that she expressed herself in a way that could lead to misunderstandings and held a technical fault responsible ("my mouse slipped" :roll:).

Now that not only speaks for the party's radicalism, it speaks far more for the stupidity of its leaders. von Storch clearly doesn't have a slipping tongue, she has a slipping mouse.:lamoRumor has it that she's been shopping for a Freudian firewall since.:mrgreen:

I don't come to this forum that often anymore so I'll just end for today on the note that the AfD of the past was at least an anti "common currency" party of eurosceptic stance. Backed, whether one agreed with them or not, by some expertise in its more prominent founders being possessed of some economic expertise, all the way to holding degrees and professorships.

They've all been ousted by Petry's coup to take over and make the party a collection ground for nationalism, xenophobia and the neo-Nazis that do not hold any other promising platform. Xenophobia now being practically the only program on offer and clear cluelessness reigning on any or all other political issues.

As so often we have those on here that know little to nothing of Europe but do not find that a deterrent to spouting forth on what they don't know.

One of the reasons (but neither the only nor the main one) for my not making much time anymore.

:)





Click to expand...

Oh I have the link for Petry's original interview (in German) and yes she tried backpedalling as soon as her statement came out. She seemed aware all throughout her interview that she was going to be on public record.

I just wanted to see if there was any honesty in the claims being made but the silence demonstrates this.

As for not posting on here - shame you feel that it is necessary. My reduced posting is due to having been flooded in the December storms but I am trying to keep a presence on here - especially to confront dishonest posting and to challenge the extreme views we read here. Don't walk away - your posts were often well thought out although I didn't always agree with you.
 
Carjosse said:
You are different left-right political spectrum then, I use the traditional one with stuff like Nazism being far-right and Communism being far-left.
Click to expand...

I learned that scale too, but my teacher made a circle, showing that the two ideologies have a lot in common.

It makes more sense if you use a two dimensional scale, x-axis is economic and y-axis is social. I would then put communism at (-10, 0), nazism at (-5, 10) and Pinochets Fascism at (10, 8). Reason I am using Chile is because that is the definition of true right wing. They were right wing socially and economically.

Nazism is 11 points away from communism and 15 points away from Chile's Fascism. Calling it a right wing ideology is wrong, it was actually a modified socialist ideology.
 
Camlon said:
Nazism is 11 points away from communism and 15 points away from Chile's Fascism. Calling it a right wing ideology is wrong, it was actually a modified socialist ideology.
Click to expand...

LOL now that is funny. What part of Nazi economic ideology is "socialist"? What part of Nazi social policy is "socialist"?
 
PeteEU said:
LOL now that is funny. What part of Nazi economic ideology is "socialist"? What part of Nazi social policy is "socialist"?
Click to expand...
You tell me, what was point 11, 13, and 14 in NSDAP 25 point program?

I will be really surprised if you actually answer the question.
 
Last edited:
Abbazorkzog said:
Yes, I realize this. Some poor soul was trying to spin Anarchy as being right-wing... SMDH.
Click to expand...

It actually is. Today.. Leftist "Anarchist" and Libertarian Socialist are Communist and don't realize it. They play cute with words because calling yourself a communist is still frowned upon post-McCarthyism. Communism in it's purist form is without a State, thus no hierarchy and every is communal.

While Anarcho-Capitalism (Far Right) is absent of state with hierarchy via capitalism.
 
Carjosse said:
They are both authoritarian but the part of the difference is like you said racism, but that is only a part of it. The larger difference that puts Nazism and Fascism on the right is their idea of social hierarchy and social Darwinism. The core value of the left is equality, those closer to the centre support John Stuart Mill's equality of opportunity while the extreme of communism goes for total equality. The right disapproves of this idea believing that people are inherently unequal and need to add meaning themselves, at the extreme this means the mass extermination of certain member of society. Nazism became the farthest right on the scale you could go as ethnic cleansing for no reason other than to eliminate them is the logical furthermost step you can go from absolute equality.
Click to expand...

No, see, you like to ignore history. Progressives believe in social hierarchy and social darwinism. You need to read up on how the pro-Abortion movements and how eugenics came about in the US and the rest of the world. The Rockerfellers, the Carnegie Institute, Margret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) all supported eugenics, financed and lobbied for it as a way to get rid of certain portions of the US population.

Nazi's used the US model in it's program and for 8 years nobody in the world had a problem with it cause they were doing it too.

Here are a list of 7 other beloved people who all believed in social darwinism and social hierarchy.

Your very half-assed argument here.. Hitler and the Nazis did exactly what the Progressive movement had wet dreams about. This is the same progressive movement that STILL pushes the planned parenthood eugenics program.
 
Camlon said:
You tell me, what was point 11, 13, and 14 in NSDAP 25 point program?

I will be really surprised if you actually answer the question.
Click to expand...

Have you? Yes I had to google it, as Nazi ideology is hardly normal reading...

Point 11: No one should live off money from rents or other income unless they have worked for that money
Click to expand...

Sounds very very right wing to me.

Point 13: We want all very big corporations to be owned by the government.
Click to expand...

And yet they never carried that out. Big corporations were owned by private owners, all Nazis.

Poing 14: Big industrial companies should share their profits with the workers.
Click to expand...

And yet that never happened either, since most big corporations used slave labour.

Want to continue this?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom