realclimate.org, solid source or PR firm of fear?

Renae · Jan 22, 2009

RealClimate.org,
That's like taking a Marlboro paid PR Firm's website as truth.

Jfuh, no wonder you got it all bass ackwards, you visit a PR's website for your truth... spoon fed koolaide.

If you’ve ever been advised to steer clear of a food, beverage, or other consumer product based on the claims of a nonprofit organization, you’ve likely been “spun” by Fenton’s multi-million-dollar message machine -- and Environmental Media Services (EMS) has probably been the messenger.
EMS is the communications arm of leftist public relations firm Fenton Communications. Based in Washington, in the same office suite as Fenton, EMS claims to be “providing journalists with the most current information on environmental issues.” A more accurate assessment might be that it spoon-feeds the news media sensationalized stories, based on questionable science, and featuring activist “experts,” all designed to promote and enrich David Fenton’s paying clients, and build credibility for the nonprofit ones. It’s a clever racket, and EMS & Fenton have been running it since 1994.

Afraid to eat dairy products from cows that have been treated with hormones to produce extra milk? Scared that the hormone, which the FDA calls “entirely safe,” will make its way into your body and cause cancer or other irreparable damage? Beginning with a huge press conference in 1998, EMS pushed that very message relentlessly for over two years. And they did it on behalf of Ben & Jerry’s, a paying Fenton client. Why would Ben & Jerry’s care? Because their ice cream is made with hormone-free milk, and David Fenton calculated that a little health hysteria would drive customers to their “alternative” product quite nicely.

Environmental Media Services

Now how the hell did I end up with that Quote?

Why I used WHOIS!

According to Internet Records Found at WHOIS:
Page Not Found | Network Solutions...

Domain ID105219760-LROR
Domain Name:REALCLIMATE.ORG
Created On:19-Nov-2004 16:39:03 UTC
Last Updated On:30-Oct-2005 21:10:46 UTC
Expiration Date:19-Nov-2007 16:39:03 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR)
Status:OK
Registrant ID:B133AE74B8066012
Registrant Name:Betsy Ensley
Registrant Organization:Environmental Media Services
Registrant Street1:1320 18th St, NW
Registrant Street2:5th Floor
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Washington
Registrant State/ProvinceC
Registrant Postal Code:20036
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.2024636670
realclimate.org WHOIS domain registration information from Network Solutions

And from there I wanted to know who is Betsy Ensley!

Betsy Ensley, Web Editor/Program Coordinator: Betsy joined the staff of EMS in April 2002 as a program assistant for EMS's toxics program.Presently, she manages BushGreenwatch.org, a joint EMS-MoveOn.org public awareness website, and coordinates environmental community media efforts to protect and improve environmental and public health safeguards.Before coming to EMS, Betsy interned at the U.S. Department of State in the office of the Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs.Betsy graduated with honors from the University of Iowa in 2000, where she majored in Global Studies with thematic focus on war, peace and security.She minored in Asian languages.

Betsy Ensley: ZoomInfo Business People Information

So "RealClimate.org" is part of the EMS group of loud, paid activist. It's even part moveon.org.

So by all means, please Jfuh, and others, keep pushing "RealClimate.org" as non-biased, and we'll spend time laughing at you.

Arch Enemy · Jan 22, 2009

Congratulations!

You are, however, not disputing the fact that global warming exists, and the climate is changing because of human impact. Even if you wish to ignore the facts of most Greenhouse gases, and how they contribute to light being trapped here on Earth, you cannot dispute the relationship between the growing termite and cow population and methane (and methane's effect on global warming).

You cannot, and have not, disputed the effects of acid rains. Especially on the controlled projects in New Hampshire (how it corrodes nutrients from the vegetation, thus lowering the amount of "breathing" the earth can do whenever the plants are undergoing photosynthesis).

Renae · Jan 22, 2009

Arch Enemy said:
Congratulations!

You are, however, not disputing the fact that global warming exists, and the climate is changing because of human impact. Even if you wish to ignore the facts of most Greenhouse gases, and how they contribute to light being trapped here on Earth, you cannot dispute the relationship between the growing termite and cow population and methane (and methane's effect on global warming).

You cannot, and have not, disputed the effects of acid rains. Especially on the controlled projects in New Hampshire (how it corrodes nutrients from the vegetation, thus lowering the amount of "breathing" the earth can do whenever the plants are undergoing photosynthesis).

The point of this thread isn't about AGW, Acid rain or any other POINTLESS sidetracking you have attempted to bring into it. This thread is dedicated to those that run to "realclimate.org" as an authoritative source of information. It's not, it's propaganda. There are plenty of AGW threads, why don't you go find one, or start your own? Instead of going completely off topic.

jfuh · Jan 22, 2009

So let me get this straight.
Are you vic, telling the board, that sources with a probable bias are piss poor and invalid to actual debate?

Because if that is the case that you are trying to present, I'll make doubly sure that next time you use cricton's sci fi book I'll remind you of this thread.

Renae · Jan 22, 2009

jfuh said:
So let me get this straight.
Are you vic, telling the board, that sources with a probable bias are piss poor and invalid to actual debate?

Because if that is the case that you are trying to present, I'll make doubly sure that next time you use cricton's sci fi book I'll remind you of this thread.

I wasn't using his book to prove anything. I merely offered it as a RESOURCE for MG to read, it has good information in it, and tells a gripping tale. Whether it sways her or not is immaterial.

It's a good story regardless. It's an interesting and thought provoking.

You push RealClimate.org, a paid PR site run by people with a serious bias... and this from the guy that demands "Peer reviewed" papers. I felt perhaps you should be shown the error of your way, and if you choose to continue to use it... well that would say everything about you.

jfuh · Jan 23, 2009

MrVicchio said:
I wasn't using his book to prove anything. I merely offered it as a RESOURCE for MG to read, it has good information in it, and tells a gripping tale. Whether it sways her or not is immaterial.

It's a good story regardless. It's an interesting and thought provoking.

You push RealClimate.org, a paid PR site run by people with a serious bias... and this from the guy that demands "Peer reviewed" papers. I felt perhaps you should be shown the error of your way, and if you choose to continue to use it... well that would say everything about you.

The fiction novel is pointless - do you know what fiction means?
I suppose that is why you are still in denial, because you get your information from fictional sources.

DAR · Jan 23, 2009

MrVicchio said:
You push RealClimate.org, a paid PR site run by people with a serious bias... and this from the guy that demands "Peer reviewed" papers. I felt perhaps you should be shown the error of your way, and if you choose to continue to use it... well that would say everything about you.

Just for the heck of it, I checked out the credentials of the RealClimate.org contributors. With the exception of William Connolley, who was a climate modeller with the British Antarctic Survey, and is now a software engineer, all other contributors are scientists with multiple published works, in peer-reviewed journals, within the climate sciences. Check it out:

Thibault de Garidel-Thoron

Stefan Rahmstorf

Raymod T. Pierrehumbert

Raymond S. Bradley

Rasmus Benestad

Michael E. Mann

Dr. Gavin A. Schmidt

Eric J. Steig

David Archer

Caspar Michael Ammann

These guys kinda look like real scientists who are qualified to comment on AGW to me. I care much more about the credentials of the RealClimate.org contributors than who administers their web servers.

Regards,
DAR

Renae · Feb 5, 2009

DAR said:
Just for the heck of it, I checked out the credentials of the RealClimate.org contributors. With the exception of William Connolley, who was a climate modeller with the British Antarctic Survey, and is now a software engineer, all other contributors are scientists with multiple published works, in peer-reviewed journals, within the climate sciences. Check it out:

Thibault de Garidel-Thoron

Stefan Rahmstorf

Raymod T. Pierrehumbert

Raymond S. Bradley

Rasmus Benestad

Michael E. Mann

Dr. Gavin A. Schmidt

Eric J. Steig

David Archer

Caspar Michael Ammann

These guys kinda look like real scientists who are qualified to comment on AGW to me. I care much more about the credentials of the RealClimate.org contributors than who administers their web servers.

Regards,
DAR

Dude, that list.. see the hockey stick Mann? Yeah, that should tell you something. These are people with an agenda, getting paid to promote that agenda, they are not scientist, they are activist.

Arch Enemy · Feb 5, 2009

MrVicchio said:
Dude, that list.. see the hockey stick Mann? Yeah, that should tell you something. These are people with an agenda, getting paid to promote that agenda, they are not scientist, they are activist.

Oh, so please show me a scientist who is without an agenda. One that brings absolutely no biased to any of their research, and one who is not passionate (or an activist, as you like to flame) about a particular subject and I will prove to you exactly where you are wrong and how foolish it makes your argument appear.

Renae · Feb 5, 2009

Arch Enemy said:
Oh, so please show me a scientist who is without an agenda. One that brings absolutely no biased to any of their research, and one who is not passionate (or an activist, as you like to flame) about a particular subject and I will prove to you exactly where you are wrong and how foolish it makes your argument appear.

So you have no problem with scientist with a political, economic and personal agenda? Good to hear. Is that the new line?

Hey "all scientist" have an agenda so who cares if they are biased?

Arch Enemy · Feb 5, 2009

MrVicchio said:
So you have no problem with scientist with a political, economic and personal agenda? Good to hear. Is that the new line?

Hey "all scientist" have an agenda so who cares if they are biased?

I never said it was a good, or great thing, but it is part of human beings to have some sort of stake in whatever they are doing (if they are going to actually do it). But what I did say is that you prove me wrong on this, that there is a scientist who doesn't bring to the table his opinions on whatever material he, or she, is working on.

Renae · Feb 5, 2009

Science demands you put aside your personal agenda for the sake of the truth. RealClimate.org is not a site promoting such detachment. M. Mann has been proven over and over again that he will go to great lengths to make his agenda change the science.

Arch Enemy · Feb 5, 2009

MrVicchio said:
Science demands you put aside your personal agenda for the sake of the truth. RealClimate.org is not a site promoting such detachment. M. Mann has been proven over and over again that he will go to great lengths to make his agenda change the science.

Oh does it now?

And where are you getting your definitions from now-a-days?

JMak · Feb 9, 2009

Arch Enemy said:
I never said it was a good, or great thing, but it is part of human beings to have some sort of stake in whatever they are doing (if they are going to actually do it). But what I did say is that you prove me wrong on this, that there is a scientist who doesn't bring to the table his opinions on whatever material he, or she, is working on.

Just curious and I'm asking only because I don't know what you think about this...

Do you get chaffed when people like Al Gore attack scientists who disagree with him by calling them essentially paid stiffs working for Exxon or some other organization that also disagrees with Gore/AGW crowd?

Renae · Dec 6, 2009

Bumbped for use in another thread.

realclimate.org, solid source or PR firm of fear?

Renae

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jfuh

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DAR

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Renae

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Renae

Arch Enemy

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Renae

Arch Enemy

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JMak

Renae