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Thread: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences

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    Re: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences

    Then you have the question of private ownership of dams. The owners were warned 20 years ago that their levee was at risk and they did sweet FA. What has Trump done for US infrastructure during the "good years"? Deregulated with tax handouts to his friends
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    Re: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    I would imagine Michigan has had similar rainfall to Chicago, and this has been the rainiest May in 150 years, beating out the last rainiest May which was LAST YEAR and that beat out the third and fourth rainiest Mays, which were all this century.

    It’s changed.
    The article cited by the OP said that the rainfall was the forth highest since the 1970's,
    While it was a heavy rain, it was not a 100 or 500 year rain.
    Closer to a 15 year rain! The fact that the dam has held up in the past to at least 3 rainfall events greater,
    leads me to think that the dam being compromised, was more a contributing factor than the rainfall.

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    Re: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Can’t understand the point in the OP, or do you just refuse to?
    The point is the same as it always is; more climate change alarmism. Everything that is now attributed to climate change are things that have been happening for centuries. Dams break because they are faulty, not because it happened to rain more than usual.

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    Re: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by veritas1 View Post
    The point is the same as it always is; more climate change alarmism. Everything that is now attributed to climate change are things that have been happening for centuries. Dams break because they are faulty, not because it happened to rain more than usual.
    I just saw this:

    It’s a record setting month in Chicago, and I’m guessing Michigan too, given the fact that the vast majority of heavy rainstorms in spring come from the west and cross the lake, often gaining intensity.

    We are on track to be the rainiest May ever, with a few days still left and some rain in next weeks forecast.

    We will beat the rainiest May ever which was set LAST year, which, in turn, beat the rainiest May ever set THE YEAR BEFORE.

    An alarming trend with over 150 years of records.

    1) 8.25” 2019
    2) 8.21” 2018
    3) 8.20” 2020

    Things are changing. And the pace is quickening.

    And that’s exactly what the science predicted decades ago.

    You know... the ‘alarmists’ predicted it.
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    Re: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    The article cited by the OP said that the rainfall was the forth highest since the 1970's,
    While it was a heavy rain, it was not a 100 or 500 year rain.
    Closer to a 15 year rain! The fact that the dam has held up in the past to at least 3 rainfall events greater,
    leads me to think that the dam being compromised, was more a contributing factor than the rainfall.
    Again.

    I’ll stick with the experts who study this for a living and dismiss some anonymous denier on DP who has no experience or training in this.
    This may go down as the worst avoidable public health disaster in US history -Eric Topol, MD on COVID-19

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    Re: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences

    Aging infrastructure.

    With apologies to William Shakespeare: “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our [climate] / But in our [dams], that we [neglected].” (Julius Caesar, Act I, Scene III, L. 140-141).

    Mid-Michigan dam failures call attention to safety of state's ...

    wsbt.com › news › local › mid-michigan-dam-failures-call-attention-t...





    20 hours ago - The failure of two mid-Michigan dams called attention to the safety of many others around the state, many of which experts said were aging and ...
    "Above all, not too much zeal." --Prince Talleyrand

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    Re: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Again.

    I’ll stick with the experts who study this for a living and dismiss some anonymous denier on DP who has no experience or training in this.
    The experts said that the rainfall event was the fourth highest since records began in the 1970's.
    but the Dam choose now to break, rather than in one of those earlier greater rainfall events.
    The logical conclusion is not AGW, but the degradation of the dam!

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    Re: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences


    Michigan Dam Failures and Climate Change

    Guest News Brief by Kip Hansen — 23 May 2020 In keeping with the NY Times’ Editorial Narrative on climate change (“every story is a climate story”), Henry Fountain writes this piece: ‘Expect More’: Climate Change Raises Risk of Dam Failures. It carries the sub-title “Engineers say most dams in the United States, designed…
    Continue reading →

    ". . . . So – what is the real problem that resulted in this disaster for so many residents and businesses in the Midland area?
    GREED: “The wrestling match among four communities in Michigan’s heavily flooded areas, state and federal officials, and Boyce [Boyce Hydro Power LLC] goes back several years. The company and the community have been trying to get the other to pay for improvements as far back as 2012.”
    And self-interest: “When Boyce stopped generating power at the Edenville Dam, which is on the border of Midland and Gladwin counties, the company let the water level on Wixom Lake fall. Four area homeowners associations that had banded together to form the Four Lakes Task Force crafted a plan to have the two counties buy out Boyce and give oversight of the dams to the task force…. “People were upset because they couldn’t use the lake the way they wanted to,” said Stacy Trapani, a spokeswoman for Four Lakes.” [ link ]
    In short, everyone – local, state, federal and corporate officials knew that the dam was unsafe and would not stand up to a major flood event. But no one wanted to pay for the needed upgrades to make it safe. Local residents were upset when the power company used the water in the lakes to make electricity as that caused the water levels to fluctuate and interfered with their recreational boating and marinas – thus they advocating for leaving the lakes full.
    These two overlapping and competing interests caused a disaster – not the weather, not the climate, not climate change."

    "Above all, not too much zeal." --Prince Talleyrand

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    Re: Midland Dam break - a good preview of climate change consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post

    Michigan Dam Failures and Climate Change

    Guest News Brief by Kip Hansen — 23 May 2020 In keeping with the NY Times’ Editorial Narrative on climate change (“every story is a climate story”), Henry Fountain writes this piece: ‘Expect More’: Climate Change Raises Risk of Dam Failures. It carries the sub-title “Engineers say most dams in the United States, designed…
    Continue reading →

    ". . . . So – what is the real problem that resulted in this disaster for so many residents and businesses in the Midland area?
    GREED: “The wrestling match among four communities in Michigan’s heavily flooded areas, state and federal officials, and Boyce [Boyce Hydro Power LLC] goes back several years. The company and the community have been trying to get the other to pay for improvements as far back as 2012.”
    And self-interest: “When Boyce stopped generating power at the Edenville Dam, which is on the border of Midland and Gladwin counties, the company let the water level on Wixom Lake fall. Four area homeowners associations that had banded together to form the Four Lakes Task Force crafted a plan to have the two counties buy out Boyce and give oversight of the dams to the task force…. “People were upset because they couldn’t use the lake the way they wanted to,” said Stacy Trapani, a spokeswoman for Four Lakes.” [ link ]
    In short, everyone – local, state, federal and corporate officials knew that the dam was unsafe and would not stand up to a major flood event. But no one wanted to pay for the needed upgrades to make it safe. Local residents were upset when the power company used the water in the lakes to make electricity as that caused the water levels to fluctuate and interfered with their recreational boating and marinas – thus they advocating for leaving the lakes full.
    These two overlapping and competing interests caused a disaster – not the weather, not the climate, not climate change."

    So it was fear of any change at all, in this case change in water level, that caused it.

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