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Carbon Crash

longview said:
Hydrogen storage is possible, batteries not so much! Stored hydro, is only possible where the topology and water supply permits it.
Just remember that facilities like the Hornsdale Power Reserve are not going to solve the duty cycle limitation on their own without massively
increasing the cost of good sold of electricity!
Click to expand...

You have provided no evidence for that battery storage can not be one of the solutions. That for example the Horndales plant are already making a difference and as I showed many bigger projects are being planned that combines wind power, solar power, hydrogen production and battery storage,

"After a tornado in late January pulled down the Heywood interconnector between SA and Victoria, SA was islanded from the rest of the Australian grid for 18 days. Upon the request of the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO), Neoen’s Hornsdale big battery and two other smaller batteries in the state – Dalrymple ESCRI and Lake Bonney – assumed critical roles during this period in maintaining the grid’s reliability while keeping electricity costs down for consumers.

While such unusual network conditions are not expected to repeat any time soon, the Hornsdale Power Reserve, also known as the Tesla Big Battery, earned more in only one quarter than in all of 2019 or 2018. Last year, the developer recorded a nearly 14% increase in annual revenue to €20.5 million ($22.4 million) up from €18 million ($19.7 million) generated in 2018.

The 100MW/129MWh Tesla big battery, located in Jamestown in SA and adjacent to the 315 MW Hornsdale Wind Farm, has already demonstrated its immense value for the grid in a number of ways, largely through grid stabilization services and savings. But the project, which is being expanded by 50%, through the addition of 50MW/64.5 MWh of Tesla batteries, is set to become an even more valuable asset to the National Electricity Market (NEM) through the addition of digital inertia services."

Hornsdale and its big Tesla battery exceed expectations as storage revenue surges – pv magazine USA

There not only renewables but also battery storage are already out competing fossil fuels.

"Solar PV and onshore wind are now the cheapest sources of new-build generation for at least two-thirds of the global population, according to the latest analysis by BloombergNEF (BNEF). The research group says that the global benchmark levelized cost of electricity (LCOE) for onshore wind and utility-scale PV has fallen 9% and 4% respectively since the second half of 2019 – to $44/MWh and $50/MWh, respectively. The benchmark LCOE for battery storage now sits at $150/MWh, having halved in price from two years ago.

This means that solar PV and onshore wind are now the cheapest sources of new-build generation for at least two-thirds of the global population. Those two-thirds live in locations that comprise 71% of gross domestic product and 85% of energy generation, BNEF says.

Battery storage is now the cheapest new-build technology for providing peak power support (up to two-hours of discharge duration) in the gas-importing regions that comprise some of the world’s biggest economies, including Europe, China and Japan."


Solar And Wind Costs Continue To Fall As Power Becomes Cleaner
 
Bergslagstroll said:
You have provided no evidence for that battery storage can not be one of the solutions. That for example the Horndales plant are already making a difference and as I showed many bigger projects are being planned that combines wind power, solar power, hydrogen production and battery storage,

"After a tornado in late January pulled down the Heywood interconnector between SA and Victoria, SA was islanded from the rest of the Australian grid for 18 days. Upon the request of the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO), Neoen’s Hornsdale big battery and two other smaller batteries in the state – Dalrymple ESCRI and Lake Bonney – assumed critical roles during this period in maintaining the grid’s reliability while keeping electricity costs down for consumers.

While such unusual network conditions are not expected to repeat any time soon, the Hornsdale Power Reserve, also known as the Tesla Big Battery, earned more in only one quarter than in all of 2019 or 2018. Last year, the developer recorded a nearly 14% increase in annual revenue to €20.5 million ($22.4 million) up from €18 million ($19.7 million) generated in 2018.

The 100MW/129MWh Tesla big battery, located in Jamestown in SA and adjacent to the 315 MW Hornsdale Wind Farm, has already demonstrated its immense value for the grid in a number of ways, largely through grid stabilization services and savings. But the project, which is being expanded by 50%, through the addition of 50MW/64.5 MWh of Tesla batteries, is set to become an even more valuable asset to the National Electricity Market (NEM) through the addition of digital inertia services."

Hornsdale and its big Tesla battery exceed expectations as storage revenue surges – pv magazine USA

There not only renewables but also battery storage are already out competing fossil fuels.

"Solar PV and onshore wind are now the cheapest sources of new-build generation for at least two-thirds of the global population, according to the latest analysis by BloombergNEF (BNEF). The research group says that the global benchmark levelized cost of electricity (LCOE) for onshore wind and utility-scale PV has fallen 9% and 4% respectively since the second half of 2019 – to $44/MWh and $50/MWh, respectively. The benchmark LCOE for battery storage now sits at $150/MWh, having halved in price from two years ago.

This means that solar PV and onshore wind are now the cheapest sources of new-build generation for at least two-thirds of the global population. Those two-thirds live in locations that comprise 71% of gross domestic product and 85% of energy generation, BNEF says.

Battery storage is now the cheapest new-build technology for providing peak power support (up to two-hours of discharge duration) in the gas-importing regions that comprise some of the world’s biggest economies, including Europe, China and Japan."


Solar And Wind Costs Continue To Fall As Power Becomes Cleaner
Click to expand...

The only evidence need is the cost of the Hornsdale Power Reserve ($90 million), and the fact that it would only cover 7% of the deficit duty cycle.
I.E. it would take roughly 12 Hornsdale Power Reserves to simply cover the hours of no daylight.
This would throw your mentioned levelized cost of electricity (LCOE) out the window.
 
longview said:
The only evidence need is the cost of the Hornsdale Power Reserve ($90 million), and the fact that it would only cover 7% of the deficit duty cycle.
I.E. it would take roughly 12 Hornsdale Power Reserves to simply cover the hours of no daylight.
This would throw your mentioned levelized cost of electricity (LCOE) out the window.
Click to expand...

You still make the wrong assumption that you will only have solar power and battery storage. There the reality is that you have the combination of for example solar panels, wind power, concentrated solar power with thermal storage, hydro power, tidal power, wave power, sustainable form of biofuels, battery storage, pump storage hydro and hydrogen production.

You also make the wrong assumption that the demand is constant. There the reality is that the demand is much higher during hot and sunny summer days. There you before had old and expensive fossil fuels plants that provided the extra power. There those plants could break down at the wrong time. While now you have very cheap solar power that produce the most power during sunny summer days. While also batteries that can respond much quicker and accurate to changes in supply and demand.

You also have the opportunities to transfer electricity and export hydrogen between different regions and countries. There for example Tasmania have set the goal of two hundred percent renewable energy and will both transfer electricity to the rest of Australia and also produce hydrogen for export.

"While Australia’s federal Coalition refuses to accept the notion that Australia can reach 50 per cent renewables without sorcery and/or total economic destruction, Tasmania’s Liberal government has just announced a possible world-first: A renewable energy target of 200 per cent by 2040, powered by a doubling of the tiny island state’s hydro, wind and solar energy production...

“Our vision is to have a renewable hydrogen generation facility up and running in Tasmania by 2022-2024, and to be commercially exporting hydrogen by 2030, creating hundreds of local jobs and injecting billions into the Tasmanian economy,” Gutwein said on Monday.

The premier said in his address on Tuesday that Tasmania had a proud history as a “quiet leader” on climate action, which is a great deal more than the government’s federal counterpart can say on the topic.

In particular, the hydro-power rich state has set a high benchmark on greenhouse has emissions, which Gutwein noted had declined by 95 per cent from 1990 levels."

Tasmania sets world-leading target of 200 per cent renewables by 2040 | RenewEconomy
 
Last edited:
Bergslagstroll said:
The only sources you have provided in response to my posts are sources that are over 20 years old, off topic denier blog sources and in another thread for some reason The Onion.
Click to expand...

Which is of higher quality than the spam you post lol
 
Bergslagstroll said:
You still make the wrong assumption that you will only have solar power and battery storage. There the reality is that you have the combination of for example solar panels, wind power, concentrated solar power with thermal storage, hydro power, tidal power, wave power, sustainable form of biofuels, battery storage, pump storage hydro and hydrogen production.

You also make the wrong assumption that the demand is constant. There the reality is that the demand is much higher during hot and sunny summer days. There you before had old and expensive fossil fuels plants that provided the extra power. There those plants could break down at the wrong time. While now you have very cheap solar power that produce the most power during sunny summer days. While also batteries that can respond much quicker and accurate to changes in supply and demand.

You also have the opportunities to transfer electricity and export hydrogen between different regions and countries. There for example Tasmania have set the goal of two hundred percent renewable energy and will both transfer electricity to the rest of Australia and also produce hydrogen for export.

"While Australia’s federal Coalition refuses to accept the notion that Australia can reach 50 per cent renewables without sorcery and/or total economic destruction, Tasmania’s Liberal government has just announced a possible world-first: A renewable energy target of 200 per cent by 2040, powered by a doubling of the tiny island state’s hydro, wind and solar energy production...

“Our vision is to have a renewable hydrogen generation facility up and running in Tasmania by 2022-2024, and to be commercially exporting hydrogen by 2030, creating hundreds of local jobs and injecting billions into the Tasmanian economy,” Gutwein said on Monday.

The premier said in his address on Tuesday that Tasmania had a proud history as a “quiet leader” on climate action, which is a great deal more than the government’s federal counterpart can say on the topic.

In particular, the hydro-power rich state has set a high benchmark on greenhouse has emissions, which Gutwein noted had declined by 95 per cent from 1990 levels."

Tasmania sets world-leading target of 200 per cent renewables by 2040 | RenewEconomy
Click to expand...
Do you understand that it is a theory that all these variables can fit together like a key in a lock, in reality nature does not cooperate, and we had days in a row of cloudy conditions,
or long spells of no wind, ect.
 
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]Tiny plankton drive processes in the ocean that capture twice as much carbon as scientists thought[/h][FONT=&quot]Ken Buesseler, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution The Research Brief is a short take about interesting academic work. The big idea The ocean plays a major role in the global carbon cycle. The driving force comes from tiny plankton that produce organic carbon through photosynthesis, like plants on land. When plankton die or are consumed, a…
Continue reading →
[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Climate Communications[/FONT]
[h=1]“Anti-Greta” Naomi Seibt Strikes Back at Climate Activist Misanthropy[/h][FONT=&quot]Guest essay by Eric Worrall In an interview with the Express, a popular UK newspaper, Naomi Seibt has questioned the misanthropic goals and motives of those who find glory in the clear waters of venice, or clean air of formerly polluted cities, but ignore the tragic human cost, the Covid-19 pain, death and lockdown misery…
[/FONT]
 
Lovebug said:
Does gas have an expiration date? It has been in tank for a while now.
Click to expand...

Your gasoline is fine. What happens is it gets a bit of water that goes to the tank bottom. But for cars there is not much you can do about that short of putting the car up on a lift and opening a plug in the bottom to drain the water out. In airplanes we will drain it prior to each flight.
 
Jack Hays said:
[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/24/anti-greta-naomi-seibt-strikes-back-at-climate-activist-misantropy/"]
greta-thunberg-antidote-naomi-seibt.jpg
[/URL]Climate Communications[/FONT]
[h=1]“Anti-Greta” Naomi Seibt Strikes Back at Climate Activist Misanthropy[/h][FONT="]Guest essay by Eric Worrall In an interview with the Express, a popular UK newspaper, Naomi Seibt has questioned the misanthropic goals and motives of those who find glory in the clear waters of venice, or clean air of formerly polluted cities, but ignore the tragic human cost, the Covid-19 pain, death and lockdown misery…
[/FONT]
Click to expand...

[video]https://www.heartland.org/multimedia/videos/why-scientists-disagree-about-global-warming-joseph-bast[/video]
 
ataraxia said:
Just about all technological breakthroughs of the 20th century came from federal government funding: airplanes, rockets, satellites , rockets, nuclear power, computers, lasers, Solid state physics, the internet, etc...
Click to expand...

Sure, defense advances. So Trump is doing well by building up the military it looks to me like this claim means.
 
longview said:
Do you understand that it is a theory that all these variables can fit together like a key in a lock, in reality nature does not cooperate, and we had days in a row of cloudy conditions,
or long spells of no wind, ect.
Click to expand...

longview said:
Do you understand that it is a theory that all these variables can fit together like a key in a lock, in reality nature does not cooperate, and we had days in a row of cloudy conditions,
or long spells of no wind, ect.
Click to expand...


In the real world you for example have Denmark that got 47 percent of their electricity from wind power last year.

Denmark sources record 47% of power from wind in 2019 - Reuters

There many major corporation are aiming to get 100 percent of their electricity for renewable energy.

Companies - RE100

That you have very sunny areas like for example deserts while also ocean shores and big lakes with very good wind conditions. While at the same time you can combine solar and wind power with many other forms of renewable energy and different types of storage.

You can also transfer electricity over long distance. For example that Australia plan to export electricity to Singapore and other Asian countries.

Australia to Singapore renewable electricity export plan takes step forward with big battery proposal - Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis : Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis
 
Bergslagstroll said:
In the real world you for example have Denmark that got 47 percent of their electricity from wind power last year.

Denmark sources record 47% of power from wind in 2019 - Reuters

There many major corporation are aiming to get 100 percent of their electricity for renewable energy.

Companies - RE100

That you have very sunny areas like for example deserts while also ocean shores and big lakes with very good wind conditions. While at the same time you can combine solar and wind power with many other forms of renewable energy and different types of storage.

You can also transfer electricity over long distance. For example that Australia plan to export electricity to Singapore and other Asian countries.

Australia to Singapore renewable electricity export plan takes step forward with big battery proposal - Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis : Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis
Click to expand...
What you are not getting, is that you can play a shell game and get some percentage of your power from renewable
energy sources, but you will always need some baseload backup, because of the irregular nature of the main renewable sources.
Grid scale seasonal storage, could also do the job, but the scale needed is beyond most peoples vision, and batteries are not it, with the current technology.
 
longview said:
What you are not getting, is that you can play a shell game and get some percentage of your power from renewable
energy sources, but you will always need some baseload backup, because of the irregular nature of the main renewable sources.
Grid scale seasonal storage, could also do the job, but the scale needed is beyond most peoples vision, and batteries are not it, with the current technology.
Click to expand...

You also have Germany that got over 50 percent of their electricity from renewable the first quarter this year.

Germany marks first ever quarter with more than 50 pct renewable electricity | Clean Energy Wire

Also that renewable surpassed coal in the USA during April this year.

IEEFA update: Renewables surpass coal in U.S. power generation throughout the month of April 2020 - Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis : Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis

Also that batteries is a much more efficient way to regulate supply of electricity compared to old spinning generators that were electromechanically coupled to the grid.

"In the past, utilities had to “take what they could get” from slow, inflexible fossil-fuel plants, Ahlstrom said. Their primary concern was having enough energy to meet peak demand.

Now, utilities will have abundant cheap power from renewables. Paired with batteries, that power can be deployed by computer in microseconds to ensure reliability or fulfill other ancillary services.

“What really surprised me—this is all I work on now—is hybrid projects,” Ahlstrom said at a workshop hosted by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine. “What happens when you tightly couple storage with solar PV, what you end up with of course is a solid-state computer-controlled power plant. When you really step back and think about what this means, we’re really talking about virtual power plants becoming real. It’s very dramatic.”"

Why Energy Storage Is Proving Even More Disruptive Than Cheap Renewables

That at the same time you can complement batteries with other technologies like for example hydro power and pump storage hydro. You can also have hydrogen power plants there the hydrogen used is produced then you have a oversupply of very cheap renewable energy.
 
A quarter of the €750 billion recovery fund proposed by EU will be reserved climate-friendly expenditure that also will have great economical and social benefits. The recovery package will also overall have green conditions to its recovery fund.

EU €750 billion Covid recovery fund comes with green conditions

That is a stark contrast to American Republican lawmakers that wants to punish private companies that don't invest in the fossil fuel industry.

Lawmakers urge punishment for banks that won’t back drillers - MINING.COM
 
Bergslagstroll said:
You also have Germany that got over 50 percent of their electricity from renewable the first quarter this year.

Germany marks first ever quarter with more than 50 pct renewable electricity | Clean Energy Wire

Also that renewable surpassed coal in the USA during April this year.

IEEFA update: Renewables surpass coal in U.S. power generation throughout the month of April 2020 - Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis : Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis

Also that batteries is a much more efficient way to regulate supply of electricity compared to old spinning generators that were electromechanically coupled to the grid.

"In the past, utilities had to “take what they could get” from slow, inflexible fossil-fuel plants, Ahlstrom said. Their primary concern was having enough energy to meet peak demand.

Now, utilities will have abundant cheap power from renewables. Paired with batteries, that power can be deployed by computer in microseconds to ensure reliability or fulfill other ancillary services.

“What really surprised me—this is all I work on now—is hybrid projects,” Ahlstrom said at a workshop hosted by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine. “What happens when you tightly couple storage with solar PV, what you end up with of course is a solid-state computer-controlled power plant. When you really step back and think about what this means, we’re really talking about virtual power plants becoming real. It’s very dramatic.”"

Why Energy Storage Is Proving Even More Disruptive Than Cheap Renewables

That at the same time you can complement batteries with other technologies like for example hydro power and pump storage hydro. You can also have hydrogen power plants there the hydrogen used is produced then you have a oversupply of very cheap renewable energy.
Click to expand...

Did you happen to read about their highlighted project in your citation?
New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear
The Eland Project will not rid Los Angeles of natural gas, however. The city will still depend on gas and hydro to supply its overnight power.
But the batteries in this 400-megawatt project will take a bite out of the fossil share of LA's power pie.
Click to expand...
The article also had a correction,
8minute Energy spokesman Jeff McCay later clarified that the 1.3¢ is in fact an added price that LADWP pays on all power that passes into its transmissions system.
Click to expand...
So the price for running from the batteries is the base 1.97¢/Kwh plus the 1.3¢/Kwh.
There was also this,
"This project is able to make full use of that investment tax credit, which is substantial," Barner said.
"It’s 30 percent that is basically knocked off the capital cost of the project.
Click to expand...
When future projects cannot be subsidized for 30% of their capital cost, do you think that might influence
the price they sell electricity for?
 
longview said:
Did you happen to read about their highlighted project in your citation?
New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear

The article also had a correction,

So the price for running from the batteries is the base 1.97¢/Kwh plus the 1.3¢/Kwh.
There was also this,

When future projects cannot be subsidized for 30% of their capital cost, do you think that might influence
the price they sell electricity for?
Click to expand...

I posted the wrong link here is the right link for the quote about how batteries is a much more efficient way to regulate supply of electricity compared to old spinning generators that were electromechanically coupled to the grid.

Why Energy Storage Is Proving Even More Disruptive Than Cheap Renewables

While the other article is also interesting that if you add the 1.97¢/Kwh plus the 1.3¢/Kwh together and remove the tax credit the battery and solar project is still roughly the same cost as natural gas plants.

A natural-gas plant opening that same year would produce power at more than twice the price, according to the U.S. Energy Information Agency, or 4¢-4.3¢/kwh. The agency did not bother modeling the estimated cost of coal or conventional nuclear plants in its 2019 Energy Outlook because, it says, none are expected to be built. (EIA estimates the cost of advanced nuclear at 7.7¢). Conventional nuclear often benefits from optimistic estimates in the range of 12¢/kwh. Nuclear's advantage has been its constancy and reliability, an advantage cheap storage increasingly challenges.

New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear

That at the same time the cost of renewables, batteries and other green technologies continue to drop. There you also soon can have millions of electric cars that help to regulate supply and demand of electricity.

Exclusive: Tesla's secret batteries aim to rework the math for electric cars and the grid - Reuters

That investments in renewables have really payed off, there governments have also spent a lot less on supporting renewables compared to fossil fuels.

$400bn in global fossil fuel consumption subsidies, twice that for renewables - Energy Post

Nuclear, Fossil Fuels Have Dominated Federal Energy R&D Spending


You also have the trillions of dollars that have been spent on intervention in the Middle East that have failed to create a stable and peacefully Middle East. Instead are Western oil money still funding some of the world's most brutal regimes that at the same time you have the risk of a new major conflict in the Middle East that could lead to that skyrocketing oil prices.

That the transition away from fossil fuels could have come a lot sooner if government's hadn't showed such favoritism for fossil fuels.
 
Last edited:
Bergslagstroll said:
I posted the wrong link here is the right link for the quote about how batteries is a much more efficient way to regulate supply of electricity compared to old spinning generators that were electromechanically coupled to the grid.

Why Energy Storage Is Proving Even More Disruptive Than Cheap Renewables

While the other article is also interesting that if you add the 1.97¢/Kwh plus the 1.3¢/Kwh together and remove the tax credit the battery and solar project is still roughly the same cost as natural gas plants.

A natural-gas plant opening that same year would produce power at more than twice the price, according to the U.S. Energy Information Agency, or 4¢-4.3¢/kwh. The agency did not bother modeling the estimated cost of coal or conventional nuclear plants in its 2019 Energy Outlook because, it says, none are expected to be built. (EIA estimates the cost of advanced nuclear at 7.7¢). Conventional nuclear often benefits from optimistic estimates in the range of 12¢/kwh. Nuclear's advantage has been its constancy and reliability, an advantage cheap storage increasingly challenges.

New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear

That at the same time the cost of renewables, batteries and other green technologies continue to drop. There you also soon can have millions of electric cars that help to regulate supply and demand of electricity.

Exclusive: Tesla's secret batteries aim to rework the math for electric cars and the grid - Reuters

That investments in renewables have really payed off, there governments have also spent a lot less on supporting renewables compared to fossil fuels.

$400bn in global fossil fuel consumption subsidies, twice that for renewables - Energy Post

Nuclear, Fossil Fuels Have Dominated Federal Energy R&D Spending


You also have the trillions of dollars that have been spent on intervention in the Middle East that have failed to create a stable and peacefully Middle East. Instead are Western oil money still funding some of the world's most brutal regimes that at the same time you have the risk of a new major conflict in the Middle East that could lead to that skyrocketing oil prices.

That the transition away from fossil fuels could have come a lot sooner if government's hadn't showed such favoritism for fossil fuels.
Click to expand...
How can I explain, that to cover the entire dutycycle would require about 7 times more battery capacity.
Cloudy days, windless days, all add to the requirement.
The project mentioned an added cost of 1.3¢/Kwh for just a few evening hours of capacity,
to cover the whole cycle would add like an additional 9¢/Kwh, the the wholesale costs.
 
longview said:
How can I explain, that to cover the entire dutycycle would require about 7 times more battery capacity.
Cloudy days, windless days, all add to the requirement.
The project mentioned an added cost of 1.3¢/Kwh for just a few evening hours of capacity,
to cover the whole cycle would add like an additional 9¢/Kwh, the the wholesale costs.
Click to expand...

Solar power can produce solar power during day time then you have the greatest demand for electricity there this project will expand that capacity to the evening then you also have a high demand for electricity. While the demand for electricity is much lower during night time.

"Crudely, Los Angeles can count on solar power generation from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., said Louis Ting, director of power planning development at the agency. The batteries in this project effectively extend that horizon four hours, to 11 p.m.

"The battery can be dispatched differently," Barner added, "depending on the system need. So you could run that four-hour battery over 16 hours at one-fourth of the output, so you can vary it over time. It’s not just fixed over four hours.""

New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear

Also Los Angeles have 284 sunny days a year. Also cloudy days are often also windy days so you can get more wind power. While at the same time cloudy days means less not no solar power output. That at the same time cloudy days also are cooler with less demand for electricity to air conditioners.

Los Angeles, California Climate

That at the same time you can complement solar power, batteries and wind power with many other technologies. Like for example hydrogen.

https://renewablesnow.com/news/deme-joins-dutch-offshore-green-hydrogen-pilot-700723/

https://renewablesnow.com/news/rste...n-massive-green-hydrogen-fuel-project-700268/
 
longview said:
How can I explain, that to cover the entire dutycycle would require about 7 times more battery capacity.
Cloudy days, windless days, all add to the requirement.
The project mentioned an added cost of 1.3¢/Kwh for just a few evening hours of capacity,
to cover the whole cycle would add like an additional 9¢/Kwh, the the wholesale costs.
Click to expand...

Solar power can produce solar power during day time then you have the greatest demand for electricity there this project will expand that capacity to the evening then you also have a high demand for electricity. While the demand for electricity is much lower during night time.

"Crudely, Los Angeles can count on solar power generation from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., said Louis Ting, director of power planning development at the agency. The batteries in this project effectively extend that horizon four hours, to 11 p.m.

"The battery can be dispatched differently," Barner added, "depending on the system need. So you could run that four-hour battery over 16 hours at one-fourth of the output, so you can vary it over time. It’s not just fixed over four hours.""

New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear

There Los Angeles have 284 sunny days a year. Also cloudy days are often also windy days so you can get more wind power. While at the same time cloudy days means less not no solar power output. Cloudy days also are cooler with less demand for electricity for air conditioners.

Los Angeles, California Climate

That at the same time you can complement solar power, batteries and wind power with many other technologies. Like for example hydrogen.

Portugal plans new hydrogen plant in post-coronavirus 'green' future - Reuters

https://renewablesnow.com/news/rste...n-massive-green-hydrogen-fuel-project-700268/
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Solar power can produce solar power during day time then you have the greatest demand for electricity there this project will expand that capacity to the evening then you also have a high demand for electricity. While the demand for electricity is much lower during night time.

"Crudely, Los Angeles can count on solar power generation from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., said Louis Ting, director of power planning development at the agency. The batteries in this project effectively extend that horizon four hours, to 11 p.m.

"The battery can be dispatched differently," Barner added, "depending on the system need. So you could run that four-hour battery over 16 hours at one-fourth of the output, so you can vary it over time. It’s not just fixed over four hours.""

New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear

Also Los Angeles have 284 sunny days a year. Also cloudy days are often also windy days so you can get more wind power. While at the same time cloudy days means less not no solar power output. That at the same time cloudy days also are cooler with less demand for electricity to air conditioners.

Los Angeles, California Climate

That at the same time you can complement solar power, batteries and wind power with many other technologies. Like for example hydrogen.

https://renewablesnow.com/news/deme-joins-dutch-offshore-green-hydrogen-pilot-700723/

https://renewablesnow.com/news/rste...n-massive-green-hydrogen-fuel-project-700268/
Click to expand...
I fully understand the benefits of solar power, but that does not reduce the requirement for solar to have a backup system,
and the cost of the that backup must be considered, when evaluating the cost of a continuous supply of electrical power.
 
longview said:
I fully understand the benefits of solar power, but that does not reduce the requirement for solar to have a backup system,
and the cost of the that backup must be considered, when evaluating the cost of a continuous supply of electrical power.
Click to expand...

As have been done in my previous links.

Australia could get 90% of electricity from renewables by 2040 with no price increase | Australia news | The Guardian

New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear

While at the same time the massive social and environment costs of fossil fuels are often ignored.

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications...Update-Based-on-Country-Level-Estimates-46509

Health benefits far outweigh the costs of meeting climate change goals

Climate change impacts | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...-is-growing-but-indigenous-people-fight-back/
 
Last edited:
Bergslagstroll said:
As have been done in my previous links.

Australia could get 90% of electricity from renewables by 2040 with no price increase | Australia news | The Guardian

New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear

While at the same time the massive social and environment costs of fossil fuels are often ignored.

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications...Update-Based-on-Country-Level-Estimates-46509

Health benefits far outweigh the costs of meeting climate change goals

Climate change impacts | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...-is-growing-but-indigenous-people-fight-back/
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You so clearly do not understand what I am talking about!
Did you even read the article about Australia?
lets look at some of the highlights.
It forecasts wholesale prices would remain at roughly the current level, between $50 -$70 a megawatt hour,
over the next 10 years. Wholesale electricity prices have fallen by nearly 50% over the past year.
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RepuTex found that an increase in wholesale prices could be avoided under the more ambitious scenario,
forecasting that average annual prices in the 2030s would remain below $80/MWh.
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The article title is completely misleading.
Australia could get 90% of electricity from renewables by 2040 with no price increase
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If the wholesale prices are currently between $50 -$70 a megawatt hour, but are predicted to be below $80/MWh,
how is that not a price increase?
 
 
longview said:
You so clearly do not understand what I am talking about!
Did you even read the article about Australia?
lets look at some of the highlights.


The article title is completely misleading.

If the wholesale prices are currently between $50 -$70 a megawatt hour, but are predicted to be below $80/MWh,
how is that not a price increase?
Click to expand...

In politics, it's a decrease if it doesn't grow by 10% per year.
 
longview said:
You so clearly do not understand what I am talking about!
Did you even read the article about Australia?
lets look at some of the highlights.


The article title is completely misleading.

If the wholesale prices are currently between $50 -$70 a megawatt hour, but are predicted to be below $80/MWh,
how is that not a price increase?
Click to expand...

As you quote says.

"The falling costs of clean technology would put pressure on coal and gas generation and lead to 18GW of thermal capacity exiting the market by 2040. It forecasts wholesale prices would remain at roughly the current level, between $50 -$70 a megawatt hour, over the next 10 years. Wholesale electricity prices have fallen by nearly 50% over the past year."

Australia could get 90% of electricity from renewables by 2040 with no price increase | Australia news | The Guardian

That you have seen a sharp decline in whole sale prices while at the same time have a sharp increase in renewable energy.

Australia deploying new renewables at ten times global average | RenewEconomy

There the prices is projected to stay the same during this decade while you continue to see a sharp increase in renewable energy. Also 2030-2040 a long time into the future so you can of course not make exact prediction for the next decade but the cost of renewables can stay below $80 a megawatt hour if you do the necessary investments into renewable energy.
 
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