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What is so hard about climate change?

I want to know what YOU think.

I was clear, I think you should do your own search of expert sources; and I'll add I think I don't plan to waste time with 'religious' deniers of the science.
 
I was clear, I think you should do your own search of expert sources; and I'll add I think I don't plan to waste time with 'religious' deniers of the science.
Specifically what science do you think is being denied?
 
I was clear, I think you should do your own search of expert sources; and I'll add I think I don't plan to waste time with 'religious' deniers of the science.

I have been around this subject for many years.

It is clear that you have no clue at all.

You will fit in well wimost of the resident Doom-mongers.
 
Don't play his game. When you do actually point out a specific location and a specific negative result from climate change, he just denies it. E.g.:

$100 easy give away. My money to you.

Thanks.

He was pretty clearly a 'wild goose chase' type poster. That's the right's little gimmick recently, 'change my mind'.
 
You have never read a physics journal have you? Trust me you wanna see knife fights you will find them there. Consensus is not a scientific thing. Science is never settled. It always evolves.
Yes, because physicists do not agree on the laws of thermodynamics, or conservation laws, or wave-particle duality, or the speed of light in a vacuum, or.... never mind

I.e. yes, scientific consensus is a real thing. Almost everything you'll read in a science textbook is the consensus view.

And there is no doubt whatsoever that "human beings are responsible for almost all of the warming during the Industrial Era" is the consensus view, and that's because all the evidence supports that conclusion.

This is made obvious by the ways that the deniers perform almost no actual science, and instead spend most of their time attacking scientists, institutions, governments, the media and so on. I.e. we don't see "knife fights" over the basic facts that a) increases in GHGs cause global temperatures to rise, and b) humans are responsible for emitting massive amounts of GHGs, therefore c) humans are causing global temperatures to rise. Thus, we say... wait for it... that it's the consensus view.
 
Thanks.

He was pretty clearly a 'wild goose chase' type poster. That's the right's little gimmick recently, 'change my mind'.

Nope should anybody fulfill the chalenge I will give them $100.

So far Miami Beach has looked like it did but on further investigation it was plain that it did not. Venice I think is the best bet but even there if they used the far better Dutch system that protects the Rhine they would not qualify. So the main problem for Venice is not global warming but ineptitude.
 
I.e. yes, scientific consensus is a real thing. Almost everything you'll read in a science textbook is the consensus view.

Consensus view is hardly a standard of proof. Peer review is also no proof of scientific validation. Consensus view once supported flat earth opinions, the supposed legitimacy of Piltdown and erroneous assumptions about flooding in the Channeled Scablands, among many other erroneous consensus scientific opinions.
 
For billions of years, the planet didn't have a lot of human actions.

For thousands of years, humans had little impact.

For the last century, after technology created the massive use of fossil fuels and the human population exploded, huge amounts of gasses from fossil fuel burning have been released into the atmosphere, having a huge effect. At the same time, trees that helped the atmosphere have been largely destroyed.

Science says that these continued activities will cause great harm. Corrupt companies who make money from fossil fuels lie and deny the science.

That's all there is to it. What's so damned hard? We either make changes to reduce the fossil fuel harm, or we get the harm. What's the problem understanding that?

The problem is the way it's being phrased and defined. If it's all natural, without super-volcanoes or meteorites causing it, then it will take a thousand or more years before the earth completely changes beyond habitation. Or if it's natural, being sped up by human impact, then that's not completely provable, nor really relevant. We can't take overly drastic measures to change our foot print that destroy our existence as we know it.

There is no doubt that humanity is affecting our natural resources and environment, which we should all agree on to address. Dwindling fresh water sources, arable farm land, polluted air and oceans, deforestation, lost of wildlife etc could end up having a more dramatic effect on our civilization than climate change and sooner than expected. Melting ice caps, cat 5 Hurricanes, droughts, billions of locusts in food impoverished Africa are all reasons for concern but less in our control.
 
Yes, because physicists do not agree on the laws of thermodynamics, or conservation laws, or wave-particle duality, or the speed of light in a vacuum, or.... never mind

I.e. yes, scientific consensus is a real thing. Almost everything you'll read in a science textbook is the consensus view.

And there is no doubt whatsoever that "human beings are responsible for almost all of the warming during the Industrial Era" is the consensus view, and that's because all the evidence supports that conclusion.

This is made obvious by the ways that the deniers perform almost no actual science, and instead spend most of their time attacking scientists, institutions, governments, the media and so on. I.e. we don't see "knife fights" over the basic facts that a) increases in GHGs cause global temperatures to rise, and b) humans are responsible for emitting massive amounts of GHGs, therefore c) humans are causing global temperatures to rise. Thus, we say... wait for it... that it's the consensus view.

Your argument is so wrong I dont even know where to begin.

Just because most scientist agree on something DOES NOT make it so. Fact the current state of scientific thought changes as new information is discovered. Thats a fact. Everything in science subject to challenge. Everything. Nothing is settled forever. Scientists try to break theories. Thats the job. Not to confirm, to break. It only takes one scientist with a repeatable experiment to break a theory. ONE. Consensus is simply what a majority THINK. What is thought and what is are two different things.

As to the statement
And there is no doubt whatsoever that "human beings are responsible for almost all of the warming during the Industrial Era" is the consensus view, and that's because all the evidence supports that conclusion.
Bull****. There is plenty of evidence to contrary and doesn't need to be massaged. Science uses the data at hand not "adjust it".

Actual scientists put forth research that global warming is not all man made and disprove a lot of the global climate peddlers theories. Jack Hays makes a point of presenting some of that dissenting research here on DP.

I myself have challenged the evidence presented especially light of past temperature and CO2 concentration levels in regards to historical norms relative to current climate. Further others like Jack Hays have challenged the aspect of CO2 on bandwidth heating saturation as presented in the current science.

Try again.
 
Yes all the residents of Florida will need to move to Greenland. Climate change brings sea level rise which will make less land available for humans not more.

- snip-

You know why they find the remains of ancient cities 200 and 300 feet under the ocean? Because the sea level was once 400 feet lower than now, over time the sea rose and reclaimed land lost. As to Greenland, once it was Green land. The climate always has changed and will continue to do so whether we are here or not.
 
For billions of years, the planet didn't have a lot of human actions.

For thousands of years, humans had little impact.

For the last century, after technology created the massive use of fossil fuels and the human population exploded, huge amounts of gasses from fossil fuel burning have been released into the atmosphere, having a huge effect. At the same time, trees that helped the atmosphere have been largely destroyed.

Science says that these continued activities will cause great harm. Corrupt companies who make money from fossil fuels lie and deny the science.

That's all there is to it. What's so damned hard? We either make changes to reduce the fossil fuel harm, or we get the harm. What's the problem understanding that?

The problem is that your simplistic view is both inaccurate and harmful.

[h=2]How Climate Change Pseudoscience Became Publicly Accepted[/h]
 
You know why they find the remains of ancient cities 200 and 300 feet under the ocean? Because the sea level was once 400 feet lower than now, over time the sea rose and reclaimed land lost. As to Greenland, once it was Green land. The climate always has changed and will continue to do so whether we are here or not.

Those low levels were during the ice ages when mile high glaciers covered much of N. America. There is no evidence that Earth has ever experienced rapid warming like we are seeing today.
 
Since when is the greenhouse effect pseudoscience? Your denial of even basic science is astounding.
Pseudoscience may not be entirely accurate, but the basics are not tested or beyond question.
Consider what the GISS says about the greenhouse effect.
NASA GISS: Science Briefs: Taking the Measure of the Greenhouse Effect
The size of the greenhouse effect is often estimated as being the difference between
the actual global surface temperature and the temperature the planet would be without
any atmospheric absorption, but with exactly the same planetary albedo, around 33°C.
In the absence of the greenhouse effect, this would be zero (in other words, no difference).
In actuality the surface emits about 150 Watts per square meter (W/m2) more than goes out to space.
We can to some extent measure the difference between energy in vs energy out, but it is unclear
what kind of resolution the measurements have. GISS goes on top say that CO2 is responsible
for up to 20% of the effect (the 150 Wm-2 imbalance, or 33°C.)
It is at this point where the GISS's wheels fall off the cart and they move into pure speculation.
If, for instance, CO2 concentrations are doubled, then the absorption would increase by 4 W/m2,
but once the water vapor and clouds react, the absorption increases by almost 20 W/m2 — demonstrating that
(in the GISS climate model, at least) the "feedbacks" are amplifying the effects of the initial radiative forcing from CO2 alone.
The reason I say this is the 33°C idea has been around for over a century.
if in fact CO2 is responsible for 20% of that 33°C(6.6°C) then, all the past doubling s of CO2,
have to add up to that 6.6°C.
From the pre industrial CO2 level of 280 ppm, we have roughly 8 doubling s to get to a level of 1 ppm.
At that level, each fully equalized doubling of CO2, would be equal to 6.6°C/8=.825°C.
Generally it is understood that each Wm-2 of positive energy imbalance, will force a temperature increase of .3°C.
Climate Sensitivity - American Chemical Society
ΔT ≈ [0.3 K·(W·m–2)–1] (2.2 W·m–2) ≈ 0.7 K
To get to the GISS's implied 20 W/m2, would mean the temperature would have to be 20 X .3= 6°C,
and almost no model is suggesting that ECS will be that high!
 
Since when is the greenhouse effect pseudoscience? Your denial of even basic science is astounding.

No one said the greenhouse effect is pseudoscience. Assigning to the greenhouse effect primary climate importance is pseudoscience.
 
No one said the greenhouse effect is pseudoscience. Assigning to the greenhouse effect primary climate importance is pseudoscience.

What effect is more important then?
 
Pseudoscience may not be entirely accurate, but the basics are not tested or beyond question.
Consider what the GISS says about the greenhouse effect.
NASA GISS: Science Briefs: Taking the Measure of the Greenhouse Effect


We can to some extent measure the difference between energy in vs energy out, but it is unclear
what kind of resolution the measurements have. GISS goes on top say that CO2 is responsible
for up to 20% of the effect (the 150 Wm-2 imbalance, or 33°C.)
It is at this point where the GISS's wheels fall off the cart and they move into pure speculation.

The reason I say this is the 33°C idea has been around for over a century.
if in fact CO2 is responsible for 20% of that 33°C(6.6°C) then, all the past doubling s of CO2,
have to add up to that 6.6°C.
From the pre industrial CO2 level of 280 ppm, we have roughly 8 doubling s to get to a level of 1 ppm.
At that level, each fully equalized doubling of CO2, would be equal to 6.6°C/8=.825°C.
Generally it is understood that each Wm-2 of positive energy imbalance, will force a temperature increase of .3°C.
Climate Sensitivity - American Chemical Society

To get to the GISS's implied 20 W/m2, would mean the temperature would have to be 20 X .3= 6°C,
and almost no model is suggesting that ECS will be that high!

In past history the Earth was warmed intensely by CO2 emmisions. So intense that it was the most catastrophic mass extinction known.

End Permian, 251 million years ago, 96% of species lost

Known as “the great dying”, this was by far the worst extinction event ever seen; it nearly ended life on Earth. The tabulate corals were lost in this period – today’s corals are an entirely different group. What caused it? A perfect storm of natural catastrophes. A cataclysmic eruption near Siberia blasted CO2 into the atmosphere. Methanogenic bacteria responded by belching out methane, a potent greenhouse gas. Global temperatures surged while oceans acidified and stagnated, belching poisonous hydrogen sulfide. “It set life back 300 million years,” says Schmidt. Rocks after this period record no coral reefs or coal deposits.

The big five mass extinctions | Cosmos
 
You have never read a physics journal have you? Trust me you wanna see knife fights you will find them there. Consensus is not a scientific thing. Science is never settled. It always evolves.

Some of your examples are not really scientific exploration but engineering application, they are not the same thing. Engineering uses best practices using known techniques and science in application. Scientific exploration is just that. Exploration. The field by definition is not completely known.

Consensus is very, very much a scientific thing.


One can’t get past the introduction of a paper with having to accept consensus on a dozen subjects. This is as true in physics (do electrons move in orbital clouds around a nucleus?) to biology (are polar bears dependent upon sea ice to hunt?).
 
Consensus is very, very much a scientific thing.


One can’t get past the introduction of a paper with having to accept consensus on a dozen subjects. This is as true in physics (do electrons move in orbital clouds around a nucleus?) to biology (are polar bears dependent upon sea ice to hunt?).

Consensus as used in the debate is not as typically thought of in the scientific community were broad strokes or theories are generally accepted as to have not been disproven at the moment but subject to change.
 
Consensus as used in the debate is not as typically thought of in the scientific community were broad strokes or theories are generally accepted as to have not been disproven at the moment but subject to change.

Consensus is what it is.

You said it didn’t exist.

That’s ludicrous.

Theoretically, evolutionary theory is subject to change, but chances are it won’t change fundamentally. The consensus agrees upon this.

And the earth is unequivocally warming. And it’s extremely likely it’s all due to human GHG emission. That’s the solid consensus.
 
Consensus is what it is.

You said it didn’t exist.

That’s ludicrous.

Theoretically, evolutionary theory is subject to change, but chances are it won’t change fundamentally. The consensus agrees upon this.

And the earth is unequivocally warming. And it’s extremely likely it’s all due to human GHG emission. That’s the solid consensus.

I am NOT going to battle you. You think as like. I made my point.
 
I’m not battling either.

Just stating facts.

Your point remains wrong.

"There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period."

--Michael Crichton
 
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