Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 39

Thread: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

  1. #11
    Guru
    Bergslagstroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,019

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Makes you glad you're American.
    Yes and it shows that it's important for western leaders to defend democracy and set positive example. Sadly you have politician like the American president that for example call the media enemy of people.

  2. #12
    Guru
    Bergslagstroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,019

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    Makes one wish there was some happy medium between jailing them and prostituting them on magazine covers, etc.

    While suppressing propaganda might practically be the lesser of the two evils, I can't sanction the unlawful jailing of peaceful demonstrators on principle. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Pres. Putin will be laughing it up ten years from now while the West is in the thrall of hysterical, unreasonable, and totally unrestrained children. Even so, I still believe freedom of speech is a right worth defending.
    I totally disagree with you then it comes to Greta Thunberg, the global climate movement and manmade global warming. That Greta Thunberg and the global climate movement only demand that we should listen to the world's leading scientists there the evidence is so overwhelming that even federal agencies under Donald urgent have to acknowledge the urgent need for action.

    Fourth National Climate Assessment

    While I think it's good that we both together can stand up for free speech.

  3. #13
    Professor COTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,336

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    I totally disagree with you then it comes to Greta Thunberg, the global climate movement and manmade global warming. That Greta Thunberg and the global climate movement only demand that we should listen to the world's leading scientists there the evidence is so overwhelming that even federal agencies under Donald urgent have to acknowledge the urgent need for action.
    The appeal I respect comes from a mature, knowledgeable individual. It's delivered with tact, patience, and humility. It plainly and knowledgeably affirms the risks and sacrifices it demands, without downplaying them. It makes no exceptions based on political convenience. It eschews drama and celebrity. Most importantly, it's delivered by an individual or group whose own lives exemplify the conduct being recommended, which they demonstrate voluntarily and without compulsion, even if only to convince others of their sincerity.

    Ms. Thunberg and the campaign engineered behind her is absolutely none of these things.

    As for the COP, the IPCC, and the pro-consensus scientists, they lack three things from my perspective as a control theorist: i) a compelling and defensible model proving the AGW hypothesis; ii) personal conduct that demonstrates the sincerity of their warnings; and iii) a forthright acknowledgement of the immense human costs of what they're demanding, to prove they truly understand what they're asking and still believe it to be the lesser evil.

    Without these three things, I remain unconvinced. This isn't going to change until these burdens are met.

    I realize such skepticism is frustrating for them and for many who believe in them, but dressing up their message with fire, bells, and whistles (a la Greta Thunberg preaching damnation for unbelievers from the UN pulpit) isn't going to move me. It might well work overall, especially with kids whipped into a para-religious crusade that gives them a sense of meaning and importance. But I want no part of it.

  4. #14
    Guru
    Bergslagstroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,019

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    The appeal I respect comes from a mature, knowledgeable individual. It's delivered with tact, patience, and humility. It plainly and knowledgeably affirms the risks and sacrifices it demands, without downplaying them. It makes no exceptions based on political convenience. It eschews drama and celebrity. Most importantly, it's delivered by an individual or group whose own lives exemplify the conduct being recommended, which they demonstrate voluntarily and without compulsion, even if only to convince others of their sincerity.

    Ms. Thunberg and the campaign engineered behind her is absolutely none of these things.

    As for the COP, the IPCC, and the pro-consensus scientists, they lack three things from my perspective as a control theorist: i) a compelling and defensible model proving the AGW hypothesis; ii) personal conduct that demonstrates the sincerity of their warnings; and iii) a forthright acknowledgement of the immense human costs of what they're demanding, to prove they truly understand what they're asking and still believe it to be the lesser evil.

    Without these three things, I remain unconvinced. This isn't going to change until these burdens are met.

    I realize such skepticism is frustrating for them and for many who believe in them, but dressing up their message with fire, bells, and whistles (a la Greta Thunberg preaching damnation for unbelievers from the UN pulpit) isn't going to move me. It might well work overall, especially with kids whipped into a para-religious crusade that gives them a sense of meaning and importance. But I want no part of it.
    Then you can listen to the world's leading scientific societies that warns about the urgent need for action on climate change. Like for example these 31 American scientific societies that represent millions of scientists.

    Thirty-one top scientific societies speak with one voice on global climate change – The Ecological Society of America

    Also deniers have had plenty of opportunity and time to disprove those scientists. Take for example that federal agencies' climate research have been under oversight and scrutiny by the Bush Administration, Trump administration and Republicans in congress that have denied the urgent need for action. There the result is that federal agencies continue to acknowledged the urgent need for action. Because the evidence is so overwhelming.

    NASA: Climate Change and Global Warming
    Last edited by Bergslagstroll; 12-28-19 at 04:44 AM.

  5. #15
    Guru
    Bergslagstroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,019

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    People standing up for the environment are also been labeled threat to national security by governments and businesses, that tries to stop their peaceful work for change.

    "To be sure, environmentalists face dangers beyond being labelled security threats. From the Amazon rainforest to South African mining communities, activists defending ecosystems and ancestral lands are threatened, attacked and even killed with near-total impunity. But the unjust labelling of environmentalists as dangerous criminals or threats to national security is often more insidious, as it is generally carried out under the aegis of the law."

    Targeting environmental activists with counterterrorism measures is an abuse of the law ǀ View | Euronews

  6. #16
    Professor COTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,336

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    Then you can listen to the world's leading scientific societies that warns about the urgent need for action on climate change. Like for example these 31 American scientific societies that represent millions of scientists.

    Thirty-one top scientific societies speak with one voice on global climate change – The Ecological Society of America
    I belong to numerous technical and academic societies. Their leadership doesn't represent me, and I don't represent them. And I work in a far less contentious, fuzzy field than climatology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    Also deniers have had plenty of opportunity and time to disprove those scientists.
    Where does "plenty of opportunity" come from when there's no funding, no tenure, no willing publicists, and vehement discipline-wide opposition to everything you publish?

    From the few million the Big Oil corporations shell out in grants in a given year? As opposed to the trillions (yes, literal trillions) in grant monies governments have paid out in the past decade for pro-consensus research?

    If I give you $1.6 trillion to build an army, and give @JackHays $20 million, and you two go to war, who do you think is going to win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    Take for example that federal agencies' climate research have been under oversight and scrutiny by the Bush Administration, Trump administration and Republicans in congress that have denied the urgent need for action.
    You seem to think that a Republican administration gets into power and within a few years all federal agencies are purged top-to-bottom and replaced with waiting legions of contrarian researchers.

    You might have a case if Republicans held the House, Senate, and WH with a healthy majority for... say... three consecutive decades, as well as having the authority to appoint employees to all levels of all institutions (which they don't) and micromanage day-to-day operations at all levels of all institutions (which they don't). As things stand, their influence is a tiny fraction of this. Four years is nothing. Easily 95% of the people working at, e.g., NASA, are the same people working there in 2015, and contrary to what you may believe, the Republicans don't have carte blanche to fill up that 5% with absolutely anyone they want.

    So don't come to me with "federal agencies' climate research have been under oversight and scrutiny by [Republican administrations]" and expect me to treat it like a validation of the consensus.

  7. #17
    Guru
    Bergslagstroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,019

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    I belong to numerous technical and academic societies. Their leadership doesn't represent me, and I don't represent them. And I work in a far less contentious, fuzzy field than climatology.


    Where does "plenty of opportunity" come from when there's no funding, no tenure, no willing publicists, and vehement discipline-wide opposition to everything you publish?

    From the few million the Big Oil corporations shell out in grants in a given year? As opposed to the trillions (yes, literal trillions) in grant monies governments have paid out in the past decade for pro-consensus research?

    If I give you $1.6 trillion to build an army, and give @JackHays $20 million, and you two go to war, who do you think is going to win?


    You seem to think that a Republican administration gets into power and within a few years all federal agencies are purged top-to-bottom and replaced with waiting legions of contrarian researchers.

    You might have a case if Republicans held the House, Senate, and WH with a healthy majority for... say... three consecutive decades, as well as having the authority to appoint employees to all levels of all institutions (which they don't) and micromanage day-to-day operations at all levels of all institutions (which they don't). As things stand, their influence is a tiny fraction of this. Four years is nothing. Easily 95% of the people working at, e.g., NASA, are the same people working there in 2015, and contrary to what you may believe, the Republicans don't have carte blanche to fill up that 5% with absolutely anyone they want.

    So don't come to me with "federal agencies' climate research have been under oversight and scrutiny by [Republican administrations]" and expect me to treat it like a validation of the consensus.
    The reason that federal agencies continue to warn about the urgent need for action on climate change because the evidence is so overwhelming. Something even Trump's pick for NASA have to admit.

    Trump's NASA Chief Changed His Mind on Climate Change. He Is a Scientific Hero. | Space

    Fossil fuel companies have also and continue to spend enormous amount on delaying the transition away from fossil fuels.

    Oil And Gas Giants Spend Millions Lobbying To Block Climate Change Policies [Infographic]

    Scientists reveal how the fossil fuel industry misled the public about climate change

    There their spending have also payed of. For example that Trump have appointed a former coal lobbyist as head of EPA.

    Andrew Wheeler, former coal lobbyist, confirmed to lead EPA - CNNPolitics

    Trump also wants to spend billions of dollars on propping up unprofitable coal plants.

    Donald Trump hopes to save America’s failing coal-fired power plants - Daily chart

    While the fossil fuel companies haven't been able to disprove manmade global, instead the evidence is so overwhelming that even they have to acknowledge the need for action.

    https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/ene...mate-agreement

  8. #18
    Professor COTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,336

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    The reason that federal agencies continue to warn about the urgent need for action on climate change because the evidence is so overwhelming. Something even Trump's pick for NASA have to admit. ...
    You're not reading what I write. Or, if you are, you're not rebutting my specific arguments.

    Spamming me with links for things I already know and understand isn't going to help.

  9. #19
    Guru
    Bergslagstroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,019

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    Quote Originally Posted by COTO View Post
    You're not reading what I write. Or, if you are, you're not rebutting my specific arguments.

    Spamming me with links for things I already know and understand isn't going to help.
    I provided those links to refute your claim. That my links shows that fossil fuel companies have spend enormous amount of money on delaying the transition away from fossil fuel. While at the same time the evidence for the urgent need for action is so overwhelming that even fossil fuel companies's have to acknowledge it on their homepage.

    Also that Trump's attempt to influence NASA's climate research by appointing Republican and former climate denier as head of NASA failed. Because Jim Bridenstine had to acknowlegde how overwhelming the evidence was.

  10. #20
    Guru
    Bergslagstroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,019

    Re: Russian climate activist inspired by Thunberg is jailed

    You have many sad example of how environmental activists in Russia are facing violence and arrests.

    Russian environmental activist hospitalized after beating - Reuters

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •