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Thread: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

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    Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    First, no credible scientific body has ever said climate change threatens the collapse of civilization much less the extinction of the human species. “‘Our children are going to die in the next 10 to 20 years.’ What’s the scientific basis for these claims?” BBC’s Andrew Neil asked a visibly uncomfortable XR spokesperson last month.
    “These claims have been disputed, admittedly,” she said. “There are some scientists who are agreeing and some who are saying it’s not true. But the overall issue is that these deaths are going to happen.”


    But most scientists don’t agree with this,” said Neil. “I looked through IPCC reports and see no reference to billions of people going to die, or children in 20 years. How would they die?”


    “Mass migration around the world already taking place due to prolonged drought in countries, particularly in South Asia. There are wildfires in Indonesia, the Amazon rainforest, Siberia, the Arctic,” she said.


    But in saying so, the XR spokesperson had grossly misrepresented the science. “There is robust evidence of disasters displacing people worldwide,” notes IPCC, “but limited evidence that climate change or sea-level rise is the direct cause


    What about “mass migration”? “The majority of resultant population movements tend to occur within the borders of affected countries," says IPCC.


    It’s not like climate doesn’t matter. It’s that climate change is outweighed by other factors. Earlier this year, researchers found that climate “has affected organized armed conflict within countries. However, other drivers, such as low socioeconomic development and low capabilities of the state, are judged to be substantially more influential.”


    Last January, after climate scientists criticized Rep. Ocasio-Cortez for saying the world would end in 12 years, her spokesperson said "We can quibble about the phraseology, whether it's existential or cataclysmic.” He added, “We're seeing lots of [climate change-related] problems that are already impacting lives."


    That last part may be true, but it’s also true that economic development has made us less vulnerable, which is why there was a 99.7% decline in the death toll from natural disasters since its peak in 1931.


    In 1931, 3.7 million people died from natural disasters. In 2018, just 11,000 did.
    And that decline occurred over a period when the global population quadrupled.
    Yup. Climate jihadists all think the world is gonna end. Perhaps the world will be better off if they all take a long walk over a very short pier.

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    Re: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Yup. Climate jihadists all think the world is gonna end. Perhaps the world will be better off if they all take a long walk over a very short pier.
    A right-leaning economics website tries to laysplain about climate science?

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    Re: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong



    Yup. Climate jihadists all think the world is gonna end. Perhaps the world will be better off if they all take a long walk over a very short pier.
    Nobody says the world is gonna end. That's just a hyperbolic straw man that makes it easy to be casually contemptuous about it.
    But the effects are starting to happen now. We can't destroy the world- if we could it would have happened by now. But we can make it very uncomfortable for us, some more than others. Climate change might be irrelevant in your life but a handful of people near me were laid off from the shellfish aquaculture companies they worked for because of higher CO2 levels. We'll be hearing more about coral as it happens too. Underground infrastructure in the north is badly affected by climate change already, in places where the balance is very fragile. Not in your backyard, sure, but undeniably happening anyway.
    These changes happened several times already, sure, but it took many centuries then for the changes that are happening in a few short years now.
    It's a snowball-momentum thing, too. For example, melting permafrost releases more carbon dioxide.
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    Re: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Nobody says the world is gonna end. That's just a hyperbolic straw man that makes it easy to be casually contemptuous about it.
    But the effects are starting to happen now. We can't destroy the world- if we could it would have happened by now. But we can make it very uncomfortable for us, some more than others. Climate change might be irrelevant in your life but a handful of people near me were laid off from the shellfish aquaculture companies they worked for because of higher CO2 levels. We'll be hearing more about coral as it happens too. Underground infrastructure in the north is badly affected by climate change already, in places where the balance is very fragile. Not in your backyard, sure, but undeniably happening anyway.
    These changes happened several times already, sure, but it took many centuries then for the changes that are happening in a few short years now.
    It's a snowball-momentum thing, too. For example, melting permafrost releases more carbon dioxide.
    What bad thiongs have happened so far due to the warming we have seen?

    Please understand that you are not the first person I have asked this to. You would be the first to have any sort of positive answer.

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    Re: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    A right-leaning economics website tries to laysplain about climate science?

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    Shoot the messenger fallacy. As expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Nobody says the world is gonna end.
    Did you not read the article? Extinction Rebellion says it will, so does Greta Thundberg, and AOC. A lot of people on your side believe it.

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    Re: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
    What bad thiongs have happened so far due to the warming we have seen?

    Please understand that you are not the first person I have asked this to. You would be the first to have any sort of positive answer.
    Just across Georgia Strait from where I live some shellfish aquaculture has become pretty much impossible because CO2 dissolving in the seawater has lowered the pH level slightly and inhibits some species' shell development. Up north underground infrastructure has been buckling due to permafrost thawing for too long.

    Ocean Acidification ē Georgia Strait AllianceGeorgia Strait Alliance

    Scallop aquaculture is the worst hit so far but others are threatened.

    Canada's permafrost is turning to mud. Here's why | The Star

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/p...ting-1.5119767

    A long way from you and me but there's not a lot of money up there and when the ground shifts and cracks pipes in Tuktoyaktuk and Iqualiut due to melting permafrost it's a big deal.
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    Re: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Shoot the messenger fallacy. As expected.



    Did you not read the article? Extinction Rebellion says it will, so does Greta Thundberg, and AOC. A lot of people on your side believe it.
    That's it? The most irrelevant sentence from my post is all you reply to? Snip out everything important and quibble about 'my side'.
    Damn. Why bother. Won't do that again.
    You can't be first but you could be next.

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    Re: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Nobody says the world is gonna end. That's just a hyperbolic straw man that makes it easy to be casually contemptuous about it.
    The cofounder of Extinction Rebellion claims that 6 billion people will be dead by 2100 as a result of climate change. Heís far from nobody and I donít know how else you spin the sudden demise of 85% of the human population. Hyperbole is all the activists have because even the IPCC acknowledges that we cannot distinguish disasters caused by climate change from those that arenít because there isnít enough information.
    Last edited by Napoleon; 12-03-19 at 03:30 PM.

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    Re: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Just across Georgia Strait from where I live some shellfish aquaculture has become pretty much impossible because CO2 dissolving in the seawater has lowered the pH level slightly and inhibits some species' shell development. Up north underground infrastructure has been buckling due to permafrost thawing for too long.

    Ocean Acidification • Georgia Strait AllianceGeorgia Strait Alliance

    Scallop aquaculture is the worst hit so far but others are threatened.

    Canada's permafrost is turning to mud. Here's why | The Star

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/p...ting-1.5119767

    A long way from you and me but there's not a lot of money up there and when the ground shifts and cracks pipes in Tuktoyaktuk and Iqualiut due to melting permafrost it's a big deal.


    Ah, yes, indeed the permafrost melting will and is causing a tiny amount of trouble. But surely the land becoming decent rather than frozen must be a good thing. But yes I will grant you that that is real.

    But I see no reason why the shell fish industry in any particular place would be more effected than any other place. I see no reason why the water around Vancouver would be taking up CO2 at a rate higher than other places as the temperature there has not warmed by more than other places (almost nill).

    There is a tendancy to blame everything on CO2. This stops other causes of problems being dealt with.

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    Re: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
    Ah, yes, indeed the permafrost melting will and is causing a tiny amount of trouble. But surely the land becoming decent rather than frozen must be a good thing. But yes I will grant you that that is real.

    But I see no reason why the shell fish industry in any particular place would be more effected than any other place. I see no reason why the water around Vancouver would be taking up CO2 at a rate higher than other places as the temperature there has not warmed by more than other places (almost nill).

    There is a tendancy to blame everything on CO2. This stops other causes of problems being dealt with.[/COLOR]
    Cold water can dissolve more CO2 faster than warm. From the cited article...

    "The problem is worst at high latitudes, because cold water can dissolve more CO2 than warm water"

    There's also local conditions at work- upwelling of cold water from the deep that used to bring nutrients to the surface and now the cold water becomes slightly calcified when It's on the surface for awhile.
    You can't be first but you could be next.

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