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CO2 saturation and climate sensitivity

Actually it was longview. And you were right there to agree with him.

And he argued with me for a week and a half about it. That was less than 2 months ago.

How does your mind fail you so?

Oh... and the link:Perspectives on Temperature
It is not my fault that you did not understand the significance of two city's one large and one small, less than 30 miles apart having such a large warming difference.
 
That isn't how I read it. Saying it could account for more, shows an indication he meant part of it affects the readings, like I have been saying.

Neither of us said it was the cause of all the entire planet. You added that, thinking you were smart. Thinking you could make us look dumb. But it backfired, and now you are rationalizing.

It is not my fault that you did not understand the significance of two city's one large and one small, less than 30 miles apart having such a large warming difference.

Damn... you two are so full of... well, you know.

I guess you two need a reminder of what long was arguing:

0.8°C/decade would cover the observed warming attributed to added CO2 several times over.

Had they adjusted for .8C per decade since difference, the record might show cooling instead of warming, the number is much larger than the recorded warming.

Since the GISS rate of warming from 1978 to 2018 was .19C per decade, and the
urban-correlated biases accounted for at most 21% of that amount, then the expected amount of correction
would be .21 X .19C= ~.04C per decade, quite a bit lower than the empirical data found of .8C per decade!
BUt we do not have to be subjective about it when we have numbers.
.8C /.04C=20, wow, the highest correction factor applied, was 20 times less than the measured UHI.
The lesser ranges are even a greater error!

And let's not forget long was comparing the trend of the urban heat island effect of just San Antonio, Texas to the GISS global temp record warming trend and suggesting, more than once, that this UHI could explain all the warming that the global record is showing. And by many times!

Sorry guys... long was doing EXACTLY what Lord is accusing others of doing.
 
Damn... you two are so full of... well, you know.

I guess you two need a reminder of what long was arguing:







And let's not forget long was comparing the trend of the urban heat island effect of just San Antonio, Texas to the GISS global temp record warming trend and suggesting, more than once, that this UHI could explain all the warming that the global record is showing. And by many times!

Sorry guys... long was doing EXACTLY what Lord is accusing others of doing.

It doesn't matter what was being argued when additions to variables are being explained. This is like wanting to stick to 1 + 1 = 2, because 1 x 1 = 1 it too complicate to grasp.

You need to expand you knowledge. Not deny new facts.
 
It doesn't matter what was being argued when additions to variables are being explained. This is like wanting to stick to 1 + 1 = 2, because 1 x 1 = 1 it too complicate to grasp.

You need to expand you knowledge. Not deny new facts.

Oh cut the crap. You're not fooling anyone with that idiotic and insulting response.

Face it, Lord... long was suggesting that the measured UHI of one city could explain the whole planets warming. And he kept doing it over and over. You are not going to just rationalize it away.
 
[Putting false words into your mouth about things you never said]

Why do you do that?

I never did any such thing, neither did Longview.

How does your mind deceive you so?

Link please...

I find that there are lots of people for whom honesty and truth are simply things other people have to worry about.
 
I find that there are lots of people for whom honesty and truth are simply things other people have to worry about.

And you are one of those people.

And before you go off and deny this fact just remember I am perfectly willing to quote some of your lies about your $100 challenge. I had to call you out several times on that before you finally stopped lying about it.
 
And you are one of those people.

And before you go off and deny this fact just remember I am perfectly willing to quote some of your lies about your $100 challenge. I had to call you out several times on that before you finally stopped lying about it.

Quote those lies. I have not lied at all.

You are projecting.
 
Oh cut the crap. You're not fooling anyone with that idiotic and insulting response.

Face it, Lord... long was suggesting that the measured UHI of one city could explain the whole planets warming. And he kept doing it over and over. You are not going to just rationalize it away.

And again, I did not read it that way, and he has claimed that isn't what he meant.

Now I have suggested that the heat skews the meteorological station readings, and I recall him agreeing with me on that.

At best, there is miscommunication here. However, since you never let go of an argument you think makes us look bad, you just don't know when to stop. Thing is, you are making yourself look bad. Not us. You really should look at reality.

He said: "That is more of an effect than I would have thought," stating the paper indicated the UHI effect was greater than he thought before. When he said this: "0.8°C/decade would cover the observed warming attributed to added CO2 several times over," he never indicated any region or the planet, so it should be assumed he was talking about San Antonio. His statement would be correct because CO2 from 1997 to 2010 would add a very small amount of warming. Somewhere around 0.86 degree, if I give it an added 300% positive feedback. 13 years of UHI at 0.8 per decade is 1.04 degrees.

His statement clearly indicates to me that he claimed the UHI for San Antonio was greater than the warming by CO2 for the same period.

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

Why do you have to argue about everything you don't comprehend?

It's very, very annoying.
 
[Putting false words into your mouth about things you never said]



I find that there are lots of people for whom honesty and truth are simply things other people have to worry about.

I get tired of these guys doing that. These guys have no integrity, honesty, or even a proper understanding of the basic sciences needed to discuss this.
 
And you are one of those people.

And before you go off and deny this fact just remember I am perfectly willing to quote some of your lies about your $100 challenge. I had to call you out several times on that before you finally stopped lying about it.

Are you having delusions again?
 
I get tired of these guys doing that. These guys have no integrity, honesty, or even a proper understanding of the basic sciences needed to discuss this.

If you wish to understand them, not a pleasant thing, watch some Utube videos on Narcissism.

They float above the rest of humanity with no reason to think that the rest of us can do that thinking thing that they cannot.
 
Damn... you two are so full of... well, you know.

I guess you two need a reminder of what long was arguing:







And let's not forget long was comparing the trend of the urban heat island effect of just San Antonio, Texas to the GISS global temp record warming trend and suggesting, more than once, that this UHI could explain all the warming that the global record is showing. And by many times!

Sorry guys... long was doing EXACTLY what Lord is accusing others of doing.

There is not a lot of data about the size of the UHI effect, data sets like the GISS assume a number, with little in the way of empirical evidence. Actual data can only
Improve the assumption.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Oh cut the crap. You're not fooling anyone with that idiotic and insulting response.

Face it, Lord... long was suggesting that the measured UHI of one city could explain the whole planets warming. And he kept doing it over and over. You are not going to just rationalize it away.

LOL...

OK.

You really don't understand how serious your confirmation bias is, do you?

LOL...
 
And let's not forget long was comparing the trend of the urban heat island effect of just San Antonio, Texas to the GISS global temp record warming trend and suggesting, more than once, that this UHI could explain all the warming that the global record is showing. And by many times!
The study, if I recall compared San Antonio, Texas with New Braunfels, Texas, some 30 miles apart, and both at the edge of the hill country.
It was demonstrating the UHI effect by showing the difference in warming from two different areas close to each other,
yet with very different rate of warming.
 
Quote those lies. I have not lied at all.

I replied to your challenge.

And then on June 17, 2019 you said this:

You win. The $5 Million per year needed to counter climate change is greater than the cost of traffic lights for a small city built on a sand bar.
link

And then over the next few months you began to lie about this repeatedly:

Because nobody has managed to specify a place where the conditions expected, according to the IPCC, are going to cost anything like the local counjcil's traffic light budget with the exception of a bloke I play poker with who guessed at Venice.

[Buzz has] failed to show any place that will have to spend more than its' traffic light budget on the effects of AGW. You know this.

As you and Buzz are well aware he has yet to show any place where the cost of the adjustments needed as a result of a warmer world is more than that place spends on traffic lights.

If you suceed I will give you $100 if you get there before anybody else but don't worry about it too much as it has been going a few months without anybody being able to find anywherre which has any significant problems expected.

If you can show any place on earth, any local council, that has traffic lights, and a single bad aspect of a slightly warmer world, as per the IPCC's predictions, which it will have to spend more than it will be spending on traffic lights to sort out, to over come, I will give you $100.

Nobody has managed this so far.

I have, and continue to, offer $100 for anybody who can actually point out anything significantly bad at all anywhere in the world happening if there is the slight warming predicted by the IPCC. Just likely to be more bad than it would take the traffic light budget of the place to fix.

No one has passed so far.

And this is just a few of the times you have lied about this. Then last November I pointed out that I will keep calling you out on this lie and, as far as I have seen, you have finally quit pushing this BS.

Oh... and you don't even know what narcissism is. Go look it up.
 
I replied to your challenge.

And then on June 17, 2019 you said this:

link

And then over the next few months you began to lie about this repeatedly:













And this is just a few of the times you have lied about this. Then last November I pointed out that I will keep calling you out on this lie and, as far as I have seen, you have finally quit pushing this BS.

As I have repeatedly explained, you know this. The figures for Miami Beach did indeed look like they showed that the cost would be higher than the traffic light budget. Then I looked closer and the obvious became clear. The existing sea defenses are 12 feet high at least so the additional 4 inches they are putting on top of it when they renew the whole lot are 1/36th of the cost of the project. This is allowing all global sea level rise to count not even going as far as counting only that from human activity as per the IPCC's numbers.

You fully understand this.

And the challenge stands. Anybody who can show a place where the local council will have to spend more than the traffic light budget on a single effect of a warmer world as per the IPCC's climate numbers etc... Not permafrost and probably not Venice although I think that is mostly corruption rather than any real need.
 
And again, I did not read it that way, and he has claimed that isn't what he meant.

Now I have suggested that the heat skews the meteorological station readings, and I recall him agreeing with me on that.

At best, there is miscommunication here. However, since you never let go of an argument you think makes us look bad, you just don't know when to stop. Thing is, you are making yourself look bad. Not us. You really should look at reality.

He said: "That is more of an effect than I would have thought," stating the paper indicated the UHI effect was greater than he thought before. When he said this: "0.8°C/decade would cover the observed warming attributed to added CO2 several times over," he never indicated any region or the planet, so it should be assumed he was talking about San Antonio. His statement would be correct because CO2 from 1997 to 2010 would add a very small amount of warming. Somewhere around 0.86 degree, if I give it an added 300% positive feedback. 13 years of UHI at 0.8 per decade is 1.04 degrees.

His statement clearly indicates to me that he claimed the UHI for San Antonio was greater than the warming by CO2 for the same period.

You are taking long's first quote completely out of context and missing much of the argument. At this point early in the debate I had only asked for clarification on what he was saying when I said:

You are not seriously suggesting what I think you are suggesting... are you?

And then in his next post responding to my question he immediately compared that local UHI to global temps and global models. He then brought up a study of UHI for the continental US and also GISS global temps. And I pointed out that he was doing this several times and he never denied it. And he never did even bring up any local temp record. Longview was, in fact, comparing a local UHI effect with global and Continental US temp records and their trends.

Lord of Planar said:
Why is that so hard to comprehend?

Why do you have to argue about everything you don't comprehend?

It's very, very annoying.

Why do you have to constantly make these kinds of pointless and insulting comments all the time?? It's very, very annoying.

I get tired of these guys doing that. These guys have no integrity, honesty, or even a proper understanding of the basic sciences needed to discuss this.

Nice troll.

Are you having delusions again?

Another troll.

LOL...

OK.

You really don't understand how serious your confirmation bias is, do you?

LOL...

Troll, troll, troll...
 
As I have repeatedly explained, you know this. The figures for Miami Beach did indeed look like they showed that the cost would be higher than the traffic light budget. Then I looked closer and the obvious became clear. The existing sea defenses are 12 feet high at least so the additional 4 inches they are putting on top of it when they renew the whole lot are 1/36th of the cost of the project. This is allowing all global sea level rise to count not even going as far as counting only that from human activity as per the IPCC's numbers.

You fully understand this.

And the challenge stands. Anybody who can show a place where the local council will have to spend more than the traffic light budget on a single effect of a warmer world as per the IPCC's climate numbers etc... Not permafrost and probably not Venice although I think that is mostly corruption rather than any real need.

Oh... so you are not done lying about this. Great!!

Yes, Tim... you have "explained" this many times. I call it a bunch of lies. You had to move the goal-post twice to rationalize your reversal. And anyone with Google Earth can see that Miami Beach doesn't have 12-foot sea walls all the way around. And you know this project is raising roads and walls 2 feet. But you keep lying about it and saying it is 4 inches to just the walls. These are just a few of your frequent lies on this topic.
 
I replied to your challenge.

And then on June 17, 2019 you said this:

link

And then over the next few months you began to lie about this repeatedly:

And this is just a few of the times you have lied about this. Then last November I pointed out that I will keep calling you out on this lie and, as far as I have seen, you have finally quit pushing this BS.

Oh... and you don't even know what narcissism is. Go look it up.

Quote those lies. I have not lied at all.

You are projecting.

Moderator's Warning:
Both of you, look at the thread title. No one cares about your feud, so take that somewhere more appropriate. In this thread, if you two deviate even the tiniest bit from the topic again, you will be removed from the thread.
 
There is not a lot of data about the size of the UHI effect, data sets like the GISS assume a number, with little in the way of empirical evidence. Actual data can only
Improve the assumption.

Wrong. GISS doesn't just assume a number. They use the empirical evidence of the brightness of nighttime lights as measured by satellites. You should know this long!!

The study, if I recall compared San Antonio, Texas with New Braunfels, Texas, some 30 miles apart, and both at the edge of the hill country.
It was demonstrating the UHI effect by showing the difference in warming from two different areas close to each other,
yet with very different rate of warming.

Really?? Then why all the talk about and comparisons to global and regional temp records? It was because you were making a comparison that exaggerates the UHI effect making it look bigger than it really is. And you are always looking for some new way to push your particular bias.

Sorry, long... your not getting out of this that easily.
 
Wrong. GISS doesn't just assume a number. They use the empirical evidence of the brightness of nighttime lights as measured by satellites. You should know this long!!

Really?? Then why all the talk about and comparisons to global and regional temp records? It was because you were making a comparison that exaggerates the UHI effect making it look bigger than it really is. And you are always looking for some new way to push your particular bias.

Sorry, long... your not getting out of this that easily.

The NASA GISS data assumes a great many numbers. Particularly temperatures prior to 1910. NASA has absolutely no data concerning temperatures above 50°N prior to 1910. None at all. Meaning it is entirely extrapolated. Furthermore, there are numerous days and even months of missing data from a wide variety of locations prior to 1930. So you are seriously mistaken. NASA makes up a great many numbers.
 
Wrong. GISS doesn't just assume a number. They use the empirical evidence of the brightness of nighttime lights as measured by satellites. You should know this long!!



Really?? Then why all the talk about and comparisons to global and regional temp records? It was because you were making a comparison that exaggerates the UHI effect making it look bigger than it really is. And you are always looking for some new way to push your particular bias.

Sorry, long... your not getting out of this that easily.

Do they have any empirical evidence that the assumption based on nighttime lights is actually representative
of the UHI effect? The example cited by the San Antonio test, implies that the assumption is too low.
I wonder what the brightness of nighttime lights measurement difference between San Antonio, Texas with New Braunfels, Texas, would be?
 
Do they have any empirical evidence that the assumption based on nighttime lights is actually representative
of the UHI effect? The example cited by the San Antonio test, implies that the assumption is too low.
I wonder what the brightness of nighttime lights measurement difference between San Antonio, Texas with New Braunfels, Texas, would be?

Or compare it to North Pole, Alaska, than sees maybe 3 hours of daylight on Winter Solstice. A lot of Alaskans run their "Christmas lights" all Winter and leave them up all year. I wonder if that is causing askew readings. ;)

Welcome-To-The-North-Pole-Sign.jpg
 
Oh... so you are not done lying about this. Great!!

Yes, Tim... you have "explained" this many times. I call it a bunch of lies. You had to move the goal-post twice to rationalize your reversal. And anyone with Google Earth can see that Miami Beach doesn't have 12-foot sea walls all the way around. And you know this project is raising roads and walls 2 feet. But you keep lying about it and saying it is 4 inches to just the walls. These are just a few of your frequent lies on this topic.

As previously explained. They are raising the height 2 feet on top of the 12 feet or more high sea walls. But the world sea level rise over the 30 year life of these walls is expected, as a maximum, to be 4 inches. The rest of the increase is due to the land dropping, sinking. Isostatic rebound or whatever. So yes, I should use 4 inches over 14 feet.

That you persist in calling this obvious logic, basic sense, lying shows how little you understand about how truth works.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Both of you, look at the thread title. No one cares about your feud, so take that somewhere more appropriate. In this thread, if you two deviate even the tiniest bit from the topic again, you will be removed from the thread.

My reply was posted before I saw this.

I am forced to reply when called a liar. It is obvious that I have not lied. I am very happey to debate the matter in the thread that is all about the challenge of finding anywhere in the world that will expect to see any significant problem from a slight increase in temperature as per the IPCC's numbers.

I will not post anything more about it here though.
 
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