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Arctic Cold Smashes October Records in the West, Plains

Tim the plumber said:

You believe that there is a massive threat to humanityy from a slightly warmer world.

This is inspite of not having a clue about the details of this.
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I never said that I believed there's a massive threat to humanity.
 
longview said:
I am not saying they are the same thing! The theory is that some type of solar output changes the amount of cosmic rays that
are allowed to enter the atmosphere. It could well be changes in the solar magnetic field.
Whatever it is, it appears to regulate how much of the available cosmic rays that are allowed to penetrate into the atmosphere.
This relationship ether amplifies or attenuates the amount of solar energy allowed in by changing the cloud ratio.
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While the sun's magnetic field does extend beyond the orbit of Pluto, it does not influence cosmic radiation. How could it? Cosmic rays originate from beyond the influence of the sun. The solar rays will always be a significantly greater influence on Earth than cosmic rays. We didn't even become aware of cosmic rays until 1968, when a satellite tasked with detecting gamma-rays produced from nuclear explosions in order to enforce the 1963 Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty detected a gamma-ray burst coming from beyond the moon. It freaked them out so badly they classified the matter until 1972. Even then it took another 25 years before anyone figured out what was causing these GRBs.

All weather is formed in either the troposphere or stratosphere. Solar and cosmic rays rarely get beyond the ozone layer, which is between the troposphere and stratosphere. The overwhelming majority of the solar and cosmic rays impact our magnetosphere and when strong enough appear as bright colors in the night sky between 400 and 600 miles overhead, well above the atmosphere.

Since cosmic rays are entirely random, and can originate from any area of the universe and therefore impact Earth from any angle, it is impossible to test the theory. Only a testable hypothesis is considered science.
 
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AProudLefty said:
And pollution as well. I remember when air was much cleaner and clearer.
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I agree that other pollutants, or at least stuff tat is harmful, should not be spread around the place, at least to a minimum extent.

But what do you think is the harm doen by CO2, now or in the future?
 
Glitch said:
While the sun's magnetic field does extend beyond the orbit of Pluto, it does not influence cosmic radiation. How could it? Cosmic rays originate from beyond the influence of the sun. The solar rays will always be a significantly greater influence on Earth than cosmic rays. We didn't even become aware of cosmic rays until 1968, when a satellite tasked with detecting gamma-rays produced from nuclear explosions in order to enforce the 1963 Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty detected a gamma-ray burst coming from beyond the moon. It freaked them out so badly they classified the matter until 1972.

All weather is formed in either the troposphere or stratosphere. Solar and cosmic rays rarely get beyond the ozone layer, which is between the troposphere and stratosphere. The overwhelming majority of the solar and cosmic rays impact our magnetosphere and when strong enough appear as bright colors in the night sky between 400 and 600 miles overhead, well above the atmosphere.

Since cosmic rays are entirely random, and can originate from any area of the universe and therefore impact Earth from any angle, it is impossible to test the theory. Only a testable hypothesis is considered science.
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Again, while they are not sure, what aspect of solar output is controlling it, there does appear to be a relationship
between the cloud ratio and solar activity, and they have validated that the high energy cosmic rays getting in far enough
do form clouds. The idea is that changes in solar activity change how deeply the cosmic rays penetrate the atmosphere.
weak solar forces, equal more penetration and more clouds, strong solar forces equal less cosmic ray penetration and fewer clouds.
I am not sure I buy it ether, but it is plausible, and perhaps testable, if we can identify the solar variable responsible.
P.S. they were also surprised that thunderstorms emit gamma rays.
 
Tim the plumber said:

I agree that other pollutants, or at least stuff tat is harmful, should not be spread around the place, at least to a minimum extent.

But what do you think is the harm doen by CO2, now or in the future?
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"A changing climate has a range of potential ecological, physical and health impacts, including extreme weather events (such as floods, droughts, storms, and heatwaves); sea-level rise; altered crop growth; and disrupted water systems. The most extensive source of analysis on the potential impacts of climatic change can be found in the 5th Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report."
 
AProudLefty said:
"A changing climate has a range of potential ecological, physical and health impacts, including extreme weather events (such as floods, droughts, storms, and heatwaves); sea-level rise; altered crop growth; and disrupted water systems. The most extensive source of analysis on the potential impacts of climatic change can be found in the 5th Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report."
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If you were to examine one of them and found that the degree to which it was a real problem and found that if it is a problem at all it is microscopic would you then begin to think there might be a fuss over nothing happening?
 
Tim the plumber said:

If you were to examine one of them and found that the degree to which it was a real problem and found that if it is a problem at all it is microscopic would you then begin to think there might be a fuss over nothing happening?
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Do you think warmer climate will not have much impact on Earth? We already see that Greenland is falling apart.
 
longview said:
Again, while they are not sure, what aspect of solar output is controlling it, there does appear to be a relationship
between the cloud ratio and solar activity, and they have validated that the high energy cosmic rays getting in far enough
do form clouds. The idea is that changes in solar activity change how deeply the cosmic rays penetrate the atmosphere.
weak solar forces, equal more penetration and more clouds, strong solar forces equal less cosmic ray penetration and fewer clouds.
I am not sure I buy it ether, but it is plausible, and perhaps testable, if we can identify the solar variable responsible.
P.S. they were also surprised that thunderstorms emit gamma rays.
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Solar radiation is measurable and therefore testable. The same cannot be said about cosmic radiation. It is entirely sporadic and even today out best satellites have difficulty locating the direction and number of cosmic ray sources. Cosmic rays are really only a concern to space travelers. Although I do recall a paper about a possible GRB influencing the flora during the 8th century, but did not cause any sort of extinction event.

A Galactic short gamma-ray burst as cause for the [SUP]14[/SUP]C peak in AD 774/5 - Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Volume 430, Issue 1, 21 March 2013, Pages 32–36

Clouds are formed by the condensation of water vapor which is created by solar radiation causing evaporation. Forget about cosmic radiation since there is no possible way to determine its influence. Cosmic rays do not create clouds.
 
Glitch said:
Solar radiation is measurable and therefore testable. The same cannot be said about cosmic radiation. It is entirely sporadic and even today out best satellites have difficulty locating the direction and number of cosmic ray sources. Cosmic rays are really only a concern to space travelers. Although I do recall a paper about a possible GRB influencing the flora during the 8th century, but did not cause any sort of extinction event.

A Galactic short gamma-ray burst as cause for the [SUP]14[/SUP]C peak in AD 774/5 - Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Volume 430, Issue 1, 21 March 2013, Pages 32–36

Clouds are formed by water vapor which is created by solar radiation causing evaporation. Forget about cosmic radiation since there is no possible way to determine its influence. Cosmic rays do not create clouds.
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The core of the theory is that the cosmic rays that make it in deep enough cause cloud formation.
This has been verified in CERN. The idea is not that the measurable portion of solar radiation is causing this
but some yet to be identified variation, which is somewhat linked to sun spots.
Cloud formation may be linked to cosmic rays : Nature News
The number of cosmic rays that reach Earth depends on the Sun. When the Sun is emitting lots of radiation,
its magnetic field shields the planet from cosmic rays. During periods of low solar activity, more cosmic rays reach Earth.
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Since the late 1990s, some have suggested that when high solar activity lowers levels of cosmic rays, that in turn reduces cloud cover and warms the planet.
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AProudLefty said:
Do you think warmer climate will not have much impact on Earth? We already see that Greenland is falling apart.
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1, The lates, twice as fast as previous.., number is 245Gt/yr. This is odd as the pervious numbers thended to be in the 300-400+Gt/yr range. This, 245Gt/yr is about 2 inches of sea level rise by 2100. Do you think that will cause massive disruption?

2, I have a challenge out about anybody finding any sort of problem from a warmer world that is at all significant. First to do it, excluding permafrost melting and, additionally Venice ( I think the bloke at the pub has found a place, mainly because Venice has very very few traffic lights), will get $100 off me. Fancy a try?$100 easy give away. My money to you.

3, I think that a warmer world would be much better for humanity. Lots more food production, lots more life in general.
 
Earth will survive way beyond the next 100 years don't believe Greta she's been brainwashed by her activist parents.
 
longview said:
The core of the theory is that the cosmic rays that make it in deep enough cause cloud formation.
This has been verified in CERN. The idea is not that the measurable portion of solar radiation is causing this
but some yet to be identified variation, which is somewhat linked to sun spots.
Cloud formation may be linked to cosmic rays : Nature News
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How do they know the number of cosmic rays reaching the Earth? In order to make the determination that the sun blocks cosmic rays they need to know the number and intensity of the cosmic radiation impacting Earth. How are they making that determination?

We know the influence solar radiation has on Earth. We can actually measure it. Where are we measuring cosmic radiation?

Without knowing how much cosmic radiation is impacting Earth how can anyone determine whether or not solar radiation has any influence on cosmic radiation at all? For all we know solar radiation may be compounding the effect of cosmic radiation on Earth rather than diminishing it. Since cosmic radiation is entirely random, and most importantly - not measured - it is moronic to conclude that it could have any influence at all.
 
Glitch said:
While the sun's magnetic field does extend beyond the orbit of Pluto, it does not influence cosmic radiation. How could it? Cosmic rays originate from beyond the influence of the sun.
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The sun does control the level of cosmic rays coming into our solar system. The heliopause shields us from a given amount of cosmic rays. The magnetic field captures some of those that get past the heliopause. The level of protection changes with the intensity of the solar winds and, but they wind protection is lagged as they take time to travel out.


NASA: The Helioshpere

Due to the protective shielding of dangerous Galactic Cosmic Rays provided by a heliosphere or astrosphere, these structures are important for the planets that orbit the respective stars.
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Our Cosmic Neighborhood | NASA

There are many things that have still been ignored in models. For example, the solar wind dynamic pressure depends both on time and on position. It is likely that the termination shock will consequently move inward and outward over the solar cycle by many AU, and by a few AU over times as short as one month. Thus, during encounters with the shock by Voyages 1 and 2 the shock may move back and forth over the spacecraft several times once the shock is first encountered. Also ignored are the magnetic fields in the solar wind and the interstellar medium. Both magnetic fields will modify the shape and position of the heliopause and these fields control the access and motion of galactic cosmic rays into the heliosphere. With regard to shape of the shock, if the interstellar field is large enough so that VI < cf, the fast mode speed, then it is expected that the shock and heliopause will be more like the configuration shown in Figure 2. In this case, Pioneer 10, which is farther out than Voyagers 1 and 2, but is travelling more slowly in the downstream direction, may be the first spacecraft to reach the shock.
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The Heliosphere
 
Tim the plumber said:

1, The lates, twice as fast as previous.., number is 245Gt/yr. This is odd as the pervious numbers thended to be in the 300-400+Gt/yr range. This, 245Gt/yr is about 2 inches of sea level rise by 2100. Do you think that will cause massive disruption?

2, I have a challenge out about anybody finding any sort of problem from a warmer world that is at all significant. First to do it, excluding permafrost melting and, additionally Venice ( I think the bloke at the pub has found a place, mainly because Venice has very very few traffic lights), will get $100 off me. Fancy a try?$100 easy give away. My money to you.

3, I think that a warmer world would be much better for humanity. Lots more food production, lots more life in general.
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Massive disruption? Probably not. More floods, droughts and hurricanes? Yes I think so. Scientists of course know better than both of us put together.
 
here, let me do everyone with a brain a favor. just copy this pic to your computer/phone and any time someone starts a thread where it's cold somewhere in the US just post this pic. modify it as needed. it will make the OP look really stupid...

Earth with US circled.jpg
 
PoS said:
Inofe had a good point. He said eco-nuts kept talking about global warming even though it was getting cold.
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We eco-nuts, like Inhofe, admit that February exists.
 
Glitch said:
You understand that many millions of Americans don't live anywhere near public transportation, so you would be "taxing the **** out of" them for no other purpose than to intentionally make their lives miserable. At least you admit that the only purpose of this AGW scam is to expand the size and scope of government and to "taxing the **** out of" Americans. It has never been about cleaning up the environment or safe-guarding citizens, only about obtaining unlimited power at any cost.
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If taxes from gas are used to build and expand public transportation systems, I do not find that being a case of obtaining unlimited power.
 
Threegoofs said:
I’ll just point out that’s exactly what a greedy, stupid person would say when confronted.

Up with People- amirite?
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Have a nice day ...... you are the enemy and I hope your like to die soon for the true progress of humanity :wink:
 
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