• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Fast charge car batteries!

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
44,677
Reaction score
14,475
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
New EV Battery Can Charge in 10 Minutes
This is an interesting development, I wonder if they can do it without compromising the battery life,
or worse catching the car on fire.
There is also a trick or getting 75 Kwh of energy transferred in 10 minuets.
 
LOL heat them up to burning point and then cool them down quickly? I can imagine all sorts of fires occurring throughout the neighborhood if this comes into widespread use.
 
The car would be a very good Christmas gift for Greta.

Yeah, Im sure she'll have fun driving it from North America to Spain for the climate conference. :lol:
 
Why? plenty of CO2 emissions go into making a Tesla!

Oh that's right. Maybe this?

giphy.gif
 
LOL heat them up to burning point and then cool them down quickly? I can imagine all sorts of fires occurring throughout the neighborhood if this comes into widespread use.

140 degrees isn't "burning" and 140 degrees is a rather magical temperature zone because a lot of other things happen between 140 and 175 degrees. At 165 degrees, most if not all food borne microbes, bacteria and parasites die and meats are rendered safe for consumption.
At 140 degrees, magnetic tape mylar backing and the oxide that stores the magnetic information become pliable enough that a damaged tape with oxide shedding problems will suddenly play faithfully enough that it can be backed up as a digital copy for preservation.

And in the case of Li-Ion batteries, which I've used as a camera operator ever since they first were invented, 140 degrees is exactly what a lot of "smart chargers" actually do, although they lack the ability to cool the batteries down "quickly" and that is because a camera battery will cool down quickly enough by itself if adequate ventilation is available.

In fact, I have a very small smart charger which charges up individual commercial grade Li-Ion cells eight at a time.
It is a closed door unit, meaning that the cells sit inside the compartment while charging, a computer controlled FAN vents the compartment once the cells reach a certain temperature, unsurprisingly that temperature is about 140 degrees give or take a few.
The fan kicks on and the cells cool rapidly. It is a RAPID CHARGER made by Tenergy, who also makes the cells I use.

What the techies at Penn State have done is remarkable, but not because it is a new approach.
It's certainly a new approach in AUTOMOTIVE battery pack charge management but it is not entirely new.
I suspect what's new is the idea of RAPID COOLING, because with a giant car battery pack, that takes much more than just a little fan.
 
New EV Battery Can Charge in 10 Minutes
This is an interesting development, I wonder if they can do it without compromising the battery life,
or worse catching the car on fire.
There is also a trick or getting 75 Kwh of energy transferred in 10 minuets.

Electric cars is getting better and better lifespan.

Tesla May Soon Have a Battery That Can Last a Million Miles | WIRED

Also that the average commute is less than ten percent of battery capacity in modern electric cars. So most days electric cars can be slow charged while at work or home at night, there it also don't need to be done everyday. While for road trips it can often be good to combine charging the car with for example eating at restaurant. So the big benefits of 10 minutes charge is more psychological to deal with range anxiety for the average driver. While a ten minute charge can of be very good in edge cases and also can increase the potential for trucks.
 
Last edited:
140 degrees isn't "burning" and 140 degrees is a rather magical temperature zone because a lot of other things happen between 140 and 175 degrees. At 165 degrees, most if not all food borne microbes, bacteria and parasites die and meats are rendered safe for consumption.
At 140 degrees, magnetic tape mylar backing and the oxide that stores the magnetic information become pliable enough that a damaged tape with oxide shedding problems will suddenly play faithfully enough that it can be backed up as a digital copy for preservation.

And in the case of Li-Ion batteries, which I've used as a camera operator ever since they first were invented, 140 degrees is exactly what a lot of "smart chargers" actually do, although they lack the ability to cool the batteries down "quickly" and that is because a camera battery will cool down quickly enough by itself if adequate ventilation is available.

In fact, I have a very small smart charger which charges up individual commercial grade Li-Ion cells eight at a time.
It is a closed door unit, meaning that the cells sit inside the compartment while charging, a computer controlled FAN vents the compartment once the cells reach a certain temperature, unsurprisingly that temperature is about 140 degrees give or take a few.
The fan kicks on and the cells cool rapidly. It is a RAPID CHARGER made by Tenergy, who also makes the cells I use.

What the techies at Penn State have done is remarkable, but not because it is a new approach.
It's certainly a new approach in AUTOMOTIVE battery pack charge management but it is not entirely new.
I suspect what's new is the idea of RAPID COOLING, because with a giant car battery pack, that takes much more than just a little fan.

Burning points are different depending on the type of material, and if you heat and cool a battery in rapid succession you could short it. We'll see if they get this right, so I'm not holding my breath.
 
Electric cars is getting better and better lifespan.

Tesla May Soon Have a Battery That Can Last a Million Miles | WIRED

Also that the average commute is less than ten percent of battery capacity in modern electric cars. So most days electric cars can be slow charged while at work or home at night, there it also don't need to be done everyday. While for road trips it can often be good to combine charging the car with for example eating at restaurant. So the big benefits of 10 minutes charge is more psychological to deal with range anxiety for the average. While a ten minute charge can of be very good in edge cases.
The charge time is more about practical usage compared to fuel powered cars.
Not everyone just use a car for short commutes, but also use their car for trips to other cities.
One of my weekend round trips, could be 800 miles, and the refuel times would be maybe 20 minuets.
How many recharges would be necessary, and how much time would they consume?
 
Burning points are different depending on the type of material, and if you heat and cool a battery in rapid succession you could short it. We'll see if they get this right, so I'm not holding my breath.

No battery material that I know of is flammable at 140 degrees but you're absolutely correct with regard to rapid and drastic temp swings, however the engineers visited that issue and they believe that the nickel foil shielding mentioned in the article is a safety factor worth looking into.
Believe me, they will eventually get it right.
 
New EV Battery Can Charge in 10 Minutes
This is an interesting development, I wonder if they can do it without compromising the battery life,
or worse catching the car on fire.
There is also a trick or getting 75 Kwh of energy transferred in 10 minuets.

Someone probably scaled up the numbers from a test bench, not realizing the current limitations of wire, or the safety regulations they would have to violate to charge a battery assembly for a car that fast.
 
Someone probably scaled up the numbers from a test bench, not realizing the current limitations of wire, or the safety regulations they would have to violate to charge a battery assembly for a car that fast.
Yea, thinking about it if a 220 V , 30 amp circuit, can produce 6.6 KW, it would take ~11 hours to charge a 75 Kwh battery.
75 Kwh in .166 hours, means ether the voltage or the current will have to be very high.
 
Yea, thinking about it if a 220 V , 30 amp circuit, can produce 6.6 KW, it would take ~11 hours to charge a 75 Kwh battery.
75 Kwh in .166 hours, means ether the voltage or the current will have to be very high.

Well in the USA, safety precautions change at the 125 KW point. The Tesla Superchargers in the USA are rated at 120 kW. Tesla has a 7 KW charger I think. 240 volts x 30 amps is 7.2 kW. But that would be the power draw. Maybe it depends on you voltage. I have seen it range from 110/220 to 120/240 volts. It would take 450 kW to charge that in 10 minutes. Over three times the current US safety threshold.

Arc-Flash time should something go wrong...



 
In My area (Houston, Texas) with our high humidity this is a very real concern.
The adage 20,000 volts per inch, does not seem to apply here, as the air is not dry.
 
New EV Battery Can Charge in 10 Minutes
This is an interesting development, I wonder if they can do it without compromising the battery life,
or worse catching the car on fire.
There is also a trick or getting 75 Kwh of energy transferred in 10 minuets.

you would require some system to be on the car to heat it up that much and then cool it down just as fast.
i mean i guess you could use the AC coolant to do it or some other heat exchange.
 
you would require some system to be on the car to heat it up that much and then cool it down just as fast.
i mean i guess you could use the AC coolant to do it or some other heat exchange.

Tesla batter packs already use their coolant for heating the batteries as well, though it's not quick. If you live in really cold climate, it can take 30 minutes of the batteries self warming by heating and circulating the coolant, before its ready to drive.
 
The charge time is more about practical usage compared to fuel powered cars.
Not everyone just use a car for short commutes, but also use their car for trips to other cities.
One of my weekend round trips, could be 800 miles, and the refuel times would be maybe 20 minuets.
How many recharges would be necessary, and how much time would they consume?

Two, three charges could be enough if you have loaded the battery overnight before you go. There you probably can combine some of all charges with for example meal breaks or doing errands. There a ten minute charge time in the future while make electric vehicles even more convenient for you long travelers.

The longest range electric cars of 2019: new EVs with the most charge | CAR Magazine
 
Two, three charges could be enough if you have loaded the battery overnight before you go. There you probably can combine some of all charges with for example meal breaks or doing errands. There a ten minute charge time in the future while make electric vehicles even more convenient for you long travelers.

The longest range electric cars of 2019: new EVs with the most charge | CAR Magazine
I understand the planning requirements, but you have to remember the alternative is 5 minuet fill ups at a gas station.
The electrics will need to compete on equal footing and still produce tangible benefits. They are getting closer, but are not there yet!
 
Two, three charges could be enough if you have loaded the battery overnight before you go. There you probably can combine some of all charges with for example meal breaks or doing errands. There a ten minute charge time in the future while make electric vehicles even more convenient for you long travelers.

The longest range electric cars of 2019: new EVs with the most charge | CAR Magazine

Ten minute charges in the future?

LOL...

What other fiction do you believe in?
 
I understand the planning requirements, but you have to remember the alternative is 5 minuet fill ups at a gas station.
The electrics will need to compete on equal footing and still produce tangible benefits. They are getting closer, but are not there yet!

There are a lot of benefits with a electric both for society the buyer and the society. That the consumer can most of the time charge their car at home or at the work without going to the gas station. Also they will not see there fuel cost spike if there are a new mayor conflict in the Middle East. Electric cars also offer a smooth ride and good performance like for example this new Ford Mustang.

Finally, an Exciting Electric Car for the Rest of Us | Outside Online

You also have the massive social cost of being dependent on fossil fuels. From global warming and toxic pollution to costly wars in the Middle East and supporting some of the world's most brutal and fundamentalist regimes.
 
There are a lot of benefits with a electric both for society the buyer and the society. That the consumer can most of the time charge their car at home or at the work without going to the gas station. Also they will not see there fuel cost spike if there are a new mayor conflict in the Middle East. Electric cars also offer a smooth ride and good performance like for example this new Ford Mustang.

Finally, an Exciting Electric Car for the Rest of Us | Outside Online

You also have the massive social cost of being dependent on fossil fuels. From global warming and toxic pollution to costly wars in the Middle East and supporting some of the world's most brutal and fundamentalist regimes.

LOL...

0-60 mid six seconds.

LOL...

Tesla does that in what? 3.2 seconds?

Ford has a long was to go.

The Blackbird does it in 6.3 seconds, and that was an old 70's vintage without computer stuff. My SLP modified Camaro I believe is rated at 5.1 seconds.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom