[W:222]World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

jimbo · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

calamity said:
Ah yes, lets bring up the ice age.

Why not?

So instead of millions of years of melting/freezing before man got here, why not bring up 20/30 years of perceived human earth destruction and label it caused by my V8 powered truck?

digitusmedius · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

ludin said:
sure it is because we don't measure climate activity in 200 year spans. it is measured in thousands of years.
it also isn't dealt with models that always get hockey sticks no matter what numbers are inputted.

according to fact there was an ice age that started 2.6 m years ago and last up until 11k years ago.
and you want to measure climate in terms of 150 years? lmao
ok sure.

There are ice core samples going back 800,000 years showing there has never been levels of CO2 as high as it is now and has climbed in just the past 50 years.

digitusmedius · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

jimbo said:
Why not?

So instead of millions of years of melting/freezing before man got here, why not bring up 20/30 years of perceived human earth destruction and label it caused by my V8 powered truck?

Why not go back a several billion years when the earth was a smoldering hot rock with no liquid water at all. As long as you're going to bring up absurd and irrelevant time periods you might as well "go big."

ludin · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Lord of Planar said:
They don't do science. They do political science and science fiction.

it is called begging the question.
aka putting the cart before the horse.

so basically they came to their conclusion and then are trying to get the data to match their conclusion.
this is like a huge violation when it comes to science one of the biggest violations that there is.

ludin · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

digitusmedius said:
There are ice core samples going back 800,000 years showing there has never been levels of CO2 as high as it is now and has climbed in just the past 50 years.

actually there has been. in fact co2 levels has been as much as 200% higher than they are today and well plants and animals were just fine.

Glitch · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

jimbo said:
Isn't Taku, along with a similar glacier in Canada, the remnants of the ice sheet that once covered the area down to central US? The one that created the Great Lakes? Which were once a coral reef? All caused by the climate changing over millions of years? Mostly before humans existed?

So yes, warmer climates melt ice. Cooler climates form ice. Humans driving automobiles have nothing to do with it.

That ice sheet still exists and is called the Juneau Icefield. It obviously is considerably smaller than it was 11,700 years ago, but it still feeds 38 glaciers, including the Taku Glacier.

You are absolutely correct that humans had nothing to do with it. Glaciers take thousands of years to form, and the effects we see today are the result of the climate thousands of years ago. The climate today will not be reflected in future glaciers for another several thousand years.

Lord of Planar · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

The way I see it, the author at Live Science intentionally altered the NASA photos, to give the visual effect of shrinking, when there is almost not change. Here are the two original photos from the NASA Earth Observatory site:

They are the same size and scale. It's too easy to crop the exact same size and area, especially when the original picture covers exactly the same area and scale.

These guys at Live Science are either idiots, or intentionally being deceptive.

These images are 5031 x 4542. If you "view image" on your browser, and magnify with the "+", you can crop out the area of both in equal scale and compare yourself.

jimbo · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

digitusmedius said:
Why not go back a several billion years when the earth was a smoldering hot rock with no liquid water at all. As long as you're going to bring up absurd and irrelevant time periods you might as well "go big."

That too.

You make my point.

The Last Time CO2 Was This High, Humans Didn't Exist | Climate Central

Climate has been changing long before man was a factor.

Must be something else.

jimbo · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Lord of Planar said:
The way I see it, the author at Live Science intentionally altered the NASA photos, to give the visual effect of shrinking, when there is almost not change. Here are the two original photos from the NASA Earth Observatory site:

They are the same size and scale. It's too easy to crop the exact same size and area, especially when the original picture covers exactly the same area and scale.

These guys at Live Science are either idiots, or intentionally being deceptive.

I'll go with B.

Lord of Planar · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

jimbo said:
I'll go with B.

So do I.

Eriech · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

SouthernDemocrat said:
By the same flawed logic: There have been forest fires as long as forests have existed. There have been forests and forest fires long before man evolved. Thus man cannot possibly cause a forest fire.

The first was true, though facetious. The second also true, man cannot control the climate. It would be abnormal for there to be no change.
Poverty is catastrophic to the environment. The left's assault on capitalism will lessen our ability to have a clean environment. Making the US Venezuela will help neither climate change or the environment.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Jack Hays · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

digitusmedius said:
Skepticism has no scientific basis. It's simply negation based on opinion. And you demonstrate just that with every single one of your comments. You still deliberate conflate weather with climate not matter how many times you're caught out doing so--and you will continue doing so because it's your only tool and it's a poor one. Oh, and the author of that website you linked to is well-known for being a contrarian. He's one of those non-climate scientists who has done no climate science work whatsoever and loves to pontificate and get suckers to follow his crap. And he's a constant moaner in his own field if he gets any criticism. He claims that a decrease in galactic cosmic rays (GCRs) over the past 50 years has resulted in less cloud formation on earth and that's what's leading to warming. Trouble is, the data shows that, if anything, GCRs have shown a net increase over that time period so it should have been cooling which it is not:

View attachment 67267838

Your ignorance is your prison.
You are apparently unaware of Professor Shaviv's numerous peer-reviewed publications on climate topics. How embarrassing for you.
I offer this to begin to fill in the gap in your knowledge.

Solar Debunking Arguments are Defunct

And as for your GCR claim:

Forbes censored an interview with me

Finally, if you're up to it. Here's Henrik Svensmark to round out your understanding.

Henrik Svensmark: Force Majeure – The Sun’s Role In Climate Change (PDF)

Glitch · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Lord of Planar said:
The way I see it, the author at Live Science intentionally altered the NASA photos, to give the visual effect of shrinking, when there is almost not change. Here are the two original photos from the NASA Earth Observatory site:

They are the same size and scale. It's too easy to crop the exact same size and area, especially when the original picture covers exactly the same area and scale.

These guys at Live Science are either idiots, or intentionally being deceptive.

These images are 5031 x 4542. If you "view image" on your browser, and magnify with the "+", you can crop out the area of both in equal scale and compare yourself.

It doesn't matter. The behavior of the glaciers today was determined thousands of years ago. Those glaciers that are receding are doing so because the snowfields that fed them thousands of years ago did not get sufficient snow to make them advance. The snow the snowfields get today won't show up in the front of these glaciers for another several thousand years.

Today's glaciers reflect what the climate was like in the distant past. They are not indicators of the current climate.

Lord of Planar · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Glitch said:
It doesn't matter. The behavior of the glaciers today was determined thousands of years ago. Those glaciers that are receding are doing so because the snowfields that fed them thousands of years ago did not get sufficient snow to make them advance. The snow the snowfields get today won't show up in the front of these glaciers for another several thousand years.

Today's glaciers reflect what the climate was like in the distant past. They are not indicators of the current climate.

If you follow links within the links of the OP, there is a paper. A 2018 paper if I recall. It however showed the glacier was building mass. The paper also talks about the glacier flow rate, and the changing snow line. It started speeding up since the mid 80's. It's like any cyclical system. In this case, the increasing mass increased the force for flow, and the flow rate in increasing now.

Natural cycles. This glacier hit its mas gain peak, and is now relieving itself of pressure.

digitusmedius · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Glitch said:
The climate we are experiencing today has nothing to do with how glaciers are behaving today.

That conclusion was not supported by anything that came before it in the rest of your comment.

digitusmedius · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Lord of Planar said:
If you follow links within the links of the OP, there is a paper. A 2018 paper if I recall. It however showed the glacier was building mass. The paper also talks about the glacier flow rate, and the changing snow line. It started speeding up since the mid 80's. It's like any cyclical system. In this case, the increasing mass increased the force for flow, and the flow rate in increasing now.

Natural cycles. This glacier hit its mas gain peak, and is now relieving itself of pressure.

I do appreciate that you don't even try to actually back anything up. It makes it so easy to summarily dismiss your comments.

Lord of Planar · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

digitusmedius said:
I do appreciate that you don't even try to actually back anything up. It makes it so easy to summarily dismiss your comments.

I'm used to talking to people who understand science. Do you understand why physical systems oscillate? If not, how much time would it take to explain it, or find references to link for you.

digitusmedius · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

KevinKohler said:
I believe the story, but...

Those 2 images look exactly the same, except the bottom image is smaller.

Fail?

That is the point of the topic. The glacier is considerably smaller. So, no, not fail.

KevinKohler · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

digitusmedius said:
By identifying as a skeptic you, by definition, are operating from an opinion not fact or scientific knowledge. And this is obvious from the way you deflect away from actual climate science and refer to weather events time and time again.

Skepticism = unscientific?

Wut?

The scientific method is 100% about skepticism! Skepticism is the core, the foundation upon which ALL science is built.

#LearnToScience

digitusmedius · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

ludin said:
actually there has been. in fact co2 levels has been as much as 200% higher than they are today and well plants and animals were just fine.

Well, we sure need a citation for that one. Again, if we go back far enough, there was a time when the atmosphere had a large concentration of SO2 there were living organisms thriving then, too. Not really a good comparison, though.

KevinKohler · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

digitusmedius said:
That is the point of the topic. The glacier is considerably smaller. So, no, not fail.

Uh, no. Look at the pic. It looks like the same pic, but one is smaller. Glaciar size, when off landmarks within the pic, is the same. Look at it, lol.

Lord of Planar · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

digitusmedius said:
That is the point of the topic. The glacier is considerably smaller. So, no, not fail.

Deception by trick photography...

Lord of Planar · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

KevinKohler said:
Skepticism = unscientific?

Wut?

The scientific method is 100% about skepticism! Skepticism is the core, the foundation upon which ALL science is built.

#LearnToScience

Not when you worship at the alter of AGW.

digitusmedius · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

KevinKohler said:
Skepticism = unscientific?

Wut?

The scientific method is 100% about skepticism! Skepticism is the core, the foundation upon which ALL science is built.

#LearnToScience

To begin with, the climate deniers basis for their skepticism is a complete rejection of the scientific method which has produced a mountain of evidence to back up the hypothesis of global warming. But to reduce the scientific method to mere skepticism is simplistic in the extreme. I think you should have actually looked up the definition of the scientific method before you laid that "egg:"

a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

The skeptic merely says: I doubt it. The scientist says: I'm going to do study it. You need to go back to school on this, friend.

digitusmedius · Nov 8, 2019

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Lord of Planar said:
Not when you worship at the alter of AGW.

Funny, since so much anti-scientific fervor comes from the fundamentalist religious right--is that where your denial and rejection of facts stems from?

[W:222]World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

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