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Thread: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

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    Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    Renewables and electric cars are now sound investments.

    Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally - 24/7 Wall St.

    Investing in renewable energy gets a lot of attention for being the “right thing” to do to save the planet from the effects of climate change. Rarely, however, is it praised as a sound economic investment. That could be changing.
    ...
    "Our analysis indicates that for the same capital outlay today, new wind and solar-energy projects in tandem with battery electric vehicles (EVs) will produce 6x-7x more useful energy at the wheels than will oil at $60/[barrel] for gasoline-powered LDVs, and 3x-4x more than will oil at $60/[barrel] for LDVs running on diesel.” (EVs are defined as all-electric vehicles, not hybrids, plugin or otherwise.)

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    Re: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    Quote Originally Posted by Media_Truth View Post
    Renewables and electric cars are now sound investments.

    Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally - 24/7 Wall St.

    Investing in renewable energy gets a lot of attention for being the “right thing” to do to save the planet from the effects of climate change. Rarely, however, is it praised as a sound economic investment. That could be changing.
    ...
    "Our analysis indicates that for the same capital outlay today, new wind and solar-energy projects in tandem with battery electric vehicles (EVs) will produce 6x-7x more useful energy at the wheels than will oil at $60/[barrel] for gasoline-powered LDVs, and 3x-4x more than will oil at $60/[barrel] for LDVs running on diesel.” (EVs are defined as all-electric vehicles, not hybrids, plugin or otherwise.)
    It's ironic with your screen name to start out with an obvious lie like the first line. The story says that in the foreseeable future some investments might be sound. Even that is heavily qualified and hedged. Also, the source is fringey. Fake news by Media Truth.

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    Re: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay59 View Post
    It's ironic with your screen name to start out with an obvious lie like the first line. The story says that in the foreseeable future some investments might be sound. Even that is heavily qualified and hedged. Also, the source is fringey. Fake news by Media Truth.
    The conclusion of the BNP Paribas analyst was the following:

    Here’s his conclusion: “Our analysis indicates that for the same capital outlay today, new wind and solar-energy projects in tandem with battery electric vehicles (EVs) will produce 6x-7x more useful energy at the wheels than will oil at $60/[barrel] for gasoline-powered LDVs, and 3x-4x more than will oil at $60/[barrel] for LDVs running on diesel.”


    There is no denying the superior efficiency of electric vehicles. There is simply much more bang for the energy expended. I power my EV from my household renewables. It works out beautifully, so I can fully relate to the author's conclusion. How do you power your EV?

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    Re: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    E-Cars Dead At Birth? Singapore Says No To E-Cars As Asian Giants Increasingly Place Bets On Hydrogen Propulsion

    By P Gosselin on 25. September 2019
    Business soon could be getting awfully rough for electric car technology manufacturers.
    For example, German online news weekly FOCUS here reports how the Singapore government “does not want electric cars” and even “is blocking electric cars”.
    E-cars dirtier than claimed
    According to Minister Masago Zulkifli bin Masagos Mohamad, who is responsible for the environment and water supply, Singapore has “no interest in a lifestyle, that is being promoted by Tesla’s Elon Musk.
    “We are interested in clean solutions to get climate problems under control,” said Zukifli.
    FOCUS adds that Musk’s e-car strategy has been “met with massive criticism” in Singapore.
    In fact, the Singapore government also had previously decided to impose a CO2 tax on e-cars because the fossil fuels used for generating electricity for the e-car needs to be taken into account.
    E-cars have environmental drawbacks
    Singapore has strong arguments against more e-cars, FOCUS adds. One reason is that the country relies on a dense public transport network of bus and rail, and so throwing e-cars into the mix would only lead to congestion. The forward-looking Zukifli is clearly placing bets on hydrogen propulsion for the future.

    This may explain why a number of countries (e.g. Germany) have been stalling when it comes to investments in electric car infrastructure. Why invest tens of billions in an electric car infrastructure when it may be obsolete in a decade or less?
    According to FOCUS: “This [hydrogen propulsion] has a particularly low CO2 footprint, given that rare metals are required for the manufacture of electric car batteries and it has not yet been clarified how they can later be disposed of safely.”
    Asia going full throttle to hydrogen
    Reuters here reports that China, Japan and South Korea “have set ambitious targets to put millions of hydrogen-powered vehicles” – hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) – on the road by the end of the next decade.
    According to proponents, hydrogen FCVs are clean, the gas is plentiful in supply, offers distance ranges similar to gasoline cars and are free of battery-manufacture and after-life disposal/environmental issues.
    According to Reuters: “Many backers in China and Japan see FCVs as complementing EVs rather than replacing them. In general, hydrogen is seen as the more efficient choice for heavier vehicles that drive longer distances, hence the current emphasis on city buses.”
    ====================
    Overview of hydrogen, and why it’s a threat to Tesla:

    "Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one." --Marcus Aurelius

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    Re: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    Quote Originally Posted by Media_Truth View Post
    The conclusion of the BNP Paribas analyst was the following:

    Here’s his conclusion: “Our analysis indicates that for the same capital outlay today, new wind and solar-energy projects in tandem with battery electric vehicles (EVs) will produce 6x-7x more useful energy at the wheels than will oil at $60/[barrel] for gasoline-powered LDVs, and 3x-4x more than will oil at $60/[barrel] for LDVs running on diesel.”


    There is no denying the superior efficiency of electric vehicles. There is simply much more bang for the energy expended. I power my EV from my household renewables. It works out beautifully, so I can fully relate to the author's conclusion. How do you power your EV?
    Electric motors are efficient. It's power storage that is not. Gasoline is much more weight and cost effective than batteries, enough to overcome the difference in efficiency. H2 and CH4 combustion engines are comparably clean, much less massive and environmentally poisonous. Your own source says that investments have and continue to be steadily losing propositions. Fuel cells would change that balance, but don't expect them soon.

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    Re: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    E-Cars Dead At Birth? Singapore Says No To E-Cars As Asian Giants Increasingly Place Bets On Hydrogen Propulsion

    By P Gosselin on 25. September 2019
    Business soon could be getting awfully rough for electric car technology manufacturers.
    For example, German online news weekly FOCUS here reports how the Singapore government “does not want electric cars” and even “is blocking electric cars”.
    E-cars dirtier than claimed
    According to Minister Masago Zulkifli bin Masagos Mohamad, who is responsible for the environment and water supply, Singapore has “no interest in a lifestyle, that is being promoted by Tesla’s Elon Musk.
    “We are interested in clean solutions to get climate problems under control,” said Zukifli.
    FOCUS adds that Musk’s e-car strategy has been “met with massive criticism” in Singapore.
    In fact, the Singapore government also had previously decided to impose a CO2 tax on e-cars because the fossil fuels used for generating electricity for the e-car needs to be taken into account.
    E-cars have environmental drawbacks
    Singapore has strong arguments against more e-cars, FOCUS adds. One reason is that the country relies on a dense public transport network of bus and rail, and so throwing e-cars into the mix would only lead to congestion. The forward-looking Zukifli is clearly placing bets on hydrogen propulsion for the future.

    This may explain why a number of countries (e.g. Germany) have been stalling when it comes to investments in electric car infrastructure. Why invest tens of billions in an electric car infrastructure when it may be obsolete in a decade or less?
    According to FOCUS: “This [hydrogen propulsion] has a particularly low CO2 footprint, given that rare metals are required for the manufacture of electric car batteries and it has not yet been clarified how they can later be disposed of safely.”
    Asia going full throttle to hydrogen
    Reuters here reports that China, Japan and South Korea “have set ambitious targets to put millions of hydrogen-powered vehicles” – hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) – on the road by the end of the next decade.
    According to proponents, hydrogen FCVs are clean, the gas is plentiful in supply, offers distance ranges similar to gasoline cars and are free of battery-manufacture and after-life disposal/environmental issues.
    According to Reuters: “Many backers in China and Japan see FCVs as complementing EVs rather than replacing them. In general, hydrogen is seen as the more efficient choice for heavier vehicles that drive longer distances, hence the current emphasis on city buses.”
    ====================
    Overview of hydrogen, and why it’s a threat to Tesla:

    I see the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle being the long term solution, but we need the distribution infrastructure.

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    Re: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay59 View Post
    Electric motors are efficient. It's power storage that is not. Gasoline is much more weight and cost effective than batteries, enough to overcome the difference in efficiency. H2 and CH4 combustion engines are comparably clean, much less massive and environmentally poisonous. Your own source says that investments have and continue to be steadily losing propositions. Fuel cells would change that balance, but don't expect them soon.
    The power storage of EVs is adequate for 99% of vehicular trips. EV owners have an extremely high satisfaction rate. There's a reason for that. So many advantages to EVs.

    1. Less maintenance - EVs have no pistons, cylinders, and timing belts. No exhaust system. No fuel injection.
    2. Less fuel costs - in most areas of the country large savings can be realized, powering with electricity instead of gasoline.
    3. Power up with renewables. Companies like SolarEdge manufacture optimizers and inverters that can power your automobile from the sun.
    4. Regenerative braking. EVs recapture the power from stopping the vehicle. Gasoline vehicle - NADA. EV owners will seldom, if ever, need a brake job.
    5. No localized pollution. Many cities of the US are frequently out of Ozone and Particulate pollution compliance. EV's represent a very real solution to the problem. BTW, this is why so many states offer incentives for EVs.
    6. Much better acceleration. Get places quicker. EV owners love this. Time is money.

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    Re: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I see the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle being the long term solution, but we need the distribution infrastructure.
    The solution is here. That why EV owners are so happy with their choices.

    EV-Satisfaction_evobsessionDOTcom.png

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    Re: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    Quote Originally Posted by Media_Truth View Post
    The power storage of EVs is adequate for 99% of vehicular trips. EV owners have an extremely high satisfaction rate. There's a reason for that. So many advantages to EVs.

    1. Less maintenance - EVs have no pistons, cylinders, and timing belts. No exhaust system. No fuel injection.
    2. Less fuel costs - in most areas of the country large savings can be realized, powering with electricity instead of gasoline.
    3. Power up with renewables. Companies like SolarEdge manufacture optimizers and inverters that can power your automobile from the sun.
    4. Regenerative braking. EVs recapture the power from stopping the vehicle. Gasoline vehicle - NADA. EV owners will seldom, if ever, need a brake job.
    5. No localized pollution. Many cities of the US are frequently out of Ozone and Particulate pollution compliance. EV's represent a very real solution to the problem. BTW, this is why so many states offer incentives for EVs.
    6. Much better acceleration. Get places quicker. EV owners love this. Time is money.
    Except. That's the key word in these discussions. Except for the impact of batteries on the environment. Except for the problems getting necessary ingredients like cobalt (which is not a color choice for dinnerware). Except that EV are still concept cars for most purposes and the manufacture is not scalable. Except for the recharge times and the severe limits on range.

    Urban centers may benefit in the near term, but EV are not viable wide scale in the foreseeable future.

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    Re: Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay59 View Post
    Except. That's the key word in these discussions. Except for the impact of batteries on the environment. Except for the problems getting necessary ingredients like cobalt (which is not a color choice for dinnerware). Except that EV are still concept cars for most purposes and the manufacture is not scalable. Except for the recharge times and the severe limits on range.

    Urban centers may benefit in the near term, but EV are not viable wide scale in the foreseeable future.
    For reasons I mentioned, EVs are far superior to gasoline-powered vehicles. Batteries are coming down in cost, and there are major efforts underway to completely recycle the batteries. As mentioned, RANGE is not an issue for over 99% of vehicular trips. EV owners, including myself easily figure out ways to deal with range. As a matter-of-fact, there is a large circle of EV owners who want less range from their EV. They want less batteries, and an associated lower cost. The manufacturer could then make more vehicles, with fewer batteries.

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