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Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

Bergslagstroll said:
That it's the 550 km (342 miles) range car with that cost and as I understand it's before incentives. That you can charge that car for 40 minutes and get an even longer range then needed. That at the same time you can charge the car at home or at work. With electric cars you also save money because electric cars have lower driving costs.
Click to expand...
You can charge an extra 180 miles in 30 minuets, IF you can find a 100 KW charging station.
I agree that an electric drive train, is far superior to an IC engine drive train, but how the energy is stored,
and recharged is what matters.
You want people to make alternate decisions, based on the limitations of the technology,
I say we can get a better result, by using the technology we have to better advantage.
By making carbon neutral fuel, all the cars in the world could become CO2 emission free, overnight,
as well as jets , ships, and tractors.
 
longview said:
You can charge an extra 180 miles in 30 minuets, IF you can find a 100 KW charging station.
I agree that an electric drive train, is far superior to an IC engine drive train, but how the energy is stored,
and recharged is what matters.
You want people to make alternate decisions, based on the limitations of the technology,
I say we can get a better result, by using the technology we have to better advantage.
By making carbon neutral fuel, all the cars in the world could become CO2 emission free, overnight,
as well as jets , ships, and tractors.
Click to expand...

Carbon neutral fuels are still far from being marketable. This compared that almost fifty percent of new cars are electric in Norway.

Norway sets electric car record as battery autos least dented by Covid-19 crisis

There big corporations are also seeing the great benefits of electric cars.

Amazon, IKEA, AT&T, DHL & Others Join Electric Vehicle Alliance

While yes carbon neutral fuels along side other alternatives like hydrogen and bio fuels can be an options for shipping and jets. While for example cars, trucks and construction vehicles will likely be electric..

Electric power will ‘forever change’ construction machinery | Article | KHL

Then it comes to trucks you have also the opportunity of electrified roads.

'E-highways' could slash UK road freight emissions, says study | Environment | The Guardian
 
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Bergslagstroll said:
Carbon neutral fuels are still far from being marketable. This compared that almost fifty percent of new cars are electric in Norway.

Norway sets electric car record as battery autos least dented by Covid-19 crisis

There big corporations are also seeing the great benefits of electric cars.

Amazon, IKEA, AT&T, DHL & Others Join Electric Vehicle Alliance

While yes carbon neutral fuels along side other alternatives like hydrogen and bio fuels can be an options for shipping and jets. While for example cars, trucks and construction vehicles will likely be electric..

Electric power will ‘forever change’ construction machinery | Article | KHL

Then it comes to trucks you have also the opportunity of electrified roads.

'E-highways' could slash UK road freight emissions, says study | Environment | The Guardian
Click to expand...
You say, "Carbon neutral fuels are still far from being marketable" while saying that electric cars are marketable
with large subsidies. Why should the same subsidies not apply to vehicles that use carbon neutral fuels?
I think the carbon neutral fuels are within the prices Europe is already paying for fuel, but Governments have selected
a market winner, without letting the market decide.
You used Norway as an example, Gasoline is $1.78 per liter, or $6.56 per gallon.
Of that $6.56/ gallon, $5.00 of which is likely taxes. The is more than enough room to all for the estimated $2.57/gallon wholesale cost
of carbon neutral fuel, they simply have not considered it, for the same reasons you use here, you do not like the solution!
 
longview said:
You say, "Carbon neutral fuels are still far from being marketable" while saying that electric cars are marketable
with large subsidies. Why should the same subsidies not apply to vehicles that use carbon neutral fuels?
I think the carbon neutral fuels are within the prices Europe is already paying for fuel, but Governments have selected
a market winner, without letting the market decide.
You used Norway as an example, Gasoline is $1.78 per liter, or $6.56 per gallon.
Of that $6.56/ gallon, $5.00 of which is likely taxes. The is more than enough room to all for the estimated $2.57/gallon wholesale cost
of carbon neutral fuel, they simply have not considered it, for the same reasons you use here, you do not like the solution!
Click to expand...

European and other countries have had higher gas taxes for many decades. That at the same time you have had the 70's oil crisis, the Gulf war, 9/11 and the Iraq war that showed the massive costs of being dependent on oil from the Middle East. So the fossil fuel companies should have had a motivation for many decades to come up with carbon neutral fuels.

There the fossil fuel companies also spends enormous amount of money on lobbying so the could have spend some of that money on getting preferential treatment for carbon neutral fuels if they thought it would be a realistic and profitable alternative.

The Oil Industry’s Covert Campaign to Rewrite American Car Emissions Rules - The New York Times

Oil And Gas Giants Spend Millions Lobbying To Block Climate Change Policies [Infographic]

There the result is that carbon neutral fuels are still far from being marketable. While electric cars are becoming more and more competitive.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
European and other countries have had higher gas taxes for many decades. That at the same time you have had the 70's oil crisis, the Gulf war, 9/11 and the Iraq war that showed the massive costs of being dependent on oil from the Middle East. So the fossil fuel companies should have had a motivation for many decades to come up with carbon neutral fuels.

There the fossil fuel companies also spends enormous amount of money on lobbying so the could have spend some of that money on getting preferential treatment for carbon neutral fuels if they thought it would be a realistic and profitable alternative.

The Oil Industry’s Covert Campaign to Rewrite American Car Emissions Rules - The New York Times

Oil And Gas Giants Spend Millions Lobbying To Block Climate Change Policies [Infographic]

There the result is that carbon neutral fuels are still far from being marketable. While electric cars are becoming more and more competitive.
Click to expand...
It does not matter why the European countries have such high fuel taxes, only that within that tax structure is enough
room to make a viable emission solution possible.
Why let the Government choose which technology is the best solution, let the market decide?
 
longview said:
It does not matter why the European countries have such high fuel taxes, only that within that tax structure is enough
room to make a viable emission solution possible.
Why let the Government choose which technology is the best solution, let the market decide?
Click to expand...

Governments have for a long time been heavily involved in the energy sector. For example decades of intervention in the Middle East to secure the flow of cheap oil. There after trillions spend on intervention western oil money still goes to fund some of the world's brutal dictatorships and the region is far from stable.

Also that governments have spend a lot on research, there for example nuclear and fossil fuels have dominated American federal R & D spending.

Nuclear, Fossil Fuels Have Dominated Federal Energy R&D Spending

That at the same time globally the subsidies to fossil fuels have for a long time been much bigger than the subsidies to renewable energy.

$400bn in global fossil fuel consumption subsidies, twice that for renewables - Energy Post

Also that unpaid social and environmental cost of fossil fuels are trillions of dollars.

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications...Update-Based-on-Country-Level-Estimates-46509
 
The transition away from fossil fuels are accelerating.

"The world’s largest listed oil companies have wiped almost $90bn from the value of their oil and gas assets in the last nine months as the coronavirus pandemic accelerates a global shift away from fossil fuels.

In the last three financial quarters, seven of the largest oil firms have slashed their forecasts for future oil market prices, triggering a wave of downgrades to the value of their oil and gas projects totalling $87bn.

Analysis by the climate finance thinktank Carbon Tracker shows that in the last three month alone, companies including Royal Dutch Shell, BP, Total, Chevron, Repsol, Eni and Equinor have reported downgrades on the value of their assets totalling almost $55bn.

The oil valuation impairments began at the end of last year in response to growing political support for transition from fossil fuels to cleaner energy sources, and they have accelerated as the pandemic has taken its toll on the oil industry."

Seven top oil firms downgrade assets by $87bn in nine months | Business | The Guardian
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Governments have for a long time been heavily involved in the energy sector. For example decades of intervention in the Middle East to secure the flow of cheap oil. There after trillions spend on intervention western oil money still goes to fund some of the world's brutal dictatorships and the region is far from stable.

Also that governments have spend a lot on research, there for example nuclear and fossil fuels have dominated American federal R & D spending.

Nuclear, Fossil Fuels Have Dominated Federal Energy R&D Spending

That at the same time globally the subsidies to fossil fuels have for a long time been much bigger than the subsidies to renewable energy.

$400bn in global fossil fuel consumption subsidies, twice that for renewables - Energy Post

Also that unpaid social and environmental cost of fossil fuels are trillions of dollars.

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications...Update-Based-on-Country-Level-Estimates-46509
Click to expand...

So when did the Governments actively subsidize the use of fossil fuels with the end user?
 
longview said:
So when did the Governments actively subsidize the use of fossil fuels with the end user?
Click to expand...

Remember...

The radical left calls a tax break, a subsidy.
 
longview said:
True, but I do not remember getting any tax breaks for choosing a gasoline vehicle!
Click to expand...

But they don't like it is we say their favorite electric and hybrid vehicles are subsidies.

They are just damn hypocrites.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Remember...

The radical left calls a tax break, a subsidy.
Click to expand...

So you would accept a proposition to make electric vehicles completely tax free to buy and drive. Because according to you tax breaks are not subsidies?
 
longview said:
So when did the Governments actively subsidize the use of fossil fuels with the end user?
Click to expand...

Governments have actively subsidize the use of cars buy for example subsidize parking spaces but also force private businesses to offer parking spaces.

Why free parking is bad for everyone - Vox

Also the American government have spend enormous amount of money on intervention in the Middle East to secure the flow of cheap oil from the Middle East.

That at the same fossil fuels and nuclear power have dominated federal R &D spending.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Governments have actively subsidize the use of cars buy for example subsidize parking spaces but also force private businesses to offer parking spaces.

Why free parking is bad for everyone - Vox

Also the American government have spend enormous amount of money on intervention in the Middle East to secure the flow of cheap oil from the Middle East.

That at the same fossil fuels and nuclear power have dominated federal R &D spending.
Click to expand...
Please figure out what a subsidy is!
Who paid me money to buy a gasoline powered car, or provided a reduced costs service based on a vehicle being powered by gasoline?
 
Bergslagstroll said:
So you would accept a proposition to make electric vehicles completely tax free to buy and drive. Because according to you tax breaks are not subsidies?
Click to expand...

I didn't say that. I'm just pointing out the your side doesn't understand the simple definitions of words, so when the pundits their meaning, you guys are duped...
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Governments have actively subsidize the use of cars buy for example subsidize parking spaces but also force private businesses to offer parking spaces.

Why free parking is bad for everyone - Vox

Also the American government have spend enormous amount of money on intervention in the Middle East to secure the flow of cheap oil from the Middle East.

That at the same fossil fuels and nuclear power have dominated federal R &D spending.
Click to expand...

I have never seen subsidized parking. Must be a rare thing.

The intervention in the middle east is not about oil. If it was, oil supplies wouldn't drop when we have active operations in an area.

Again...

You get duped by the activist lies.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I have never seen subsidized parking. Must be a rare thing.

The intervention in the middle east is not about oil. If it was, oil supplies wouldn't drop when we have active operations in an area.

Again...

You get duped by the activist lies.
Click to expand...

So you always pay the full cost then you park outside stores, restaurant and other places? That government force private businesses to provide parking spaces.

Free parking isn’t free: Parking mandates hurt America’s cities.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I didn't say that. I'm just pointing out the your side doesn't understand the simple definitions of words, so when the pundits their meaning, you guys are duped...
Click to expand...

Why focus on semantics? That if you think it wrong for governments to make it completely tax free to buy and own a electric car, then you should also have a problem with tax breaks to fossil fuel companies.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Why focus on semantics? That if you think it wrong for governments to make it completely tax free to buy and own a electric car, then you should also have a problem with tax breaks to fossil fuel companies.
Click to expand...
Are the tax breaks the Government give to fossil fuel companies exclusive to fossil fuel companies?
For the most part, businesses are allowed to write off those portions of gross profits that is takes to provide
the good or service for sale, taxes are on net profits.
So the oil company get to write off the cost of exploration for new oil, while the department store,
can write off the cost of renting retail space. These are very different write off, but still both legitimate business expenses.
 
Oil and Gas
Big Oil Asset Write-Downs Are Not The End Of The Oil Age

Climate change activists have long lobbied for divestment from fossil fuel-producing companies. They have largely failed in this quest. This year, the steep falls in the value of the large oil and gas companies, however, occurred with a rapidity that astonished market watchers.

[FONT=&quot]". . . Low oil and gas prices will now be an established feature of global capital markets for some time to come. While the economic impact of the twin shocks in the oil universe have been severe, much depends on how fast the global pandemic is contained. The faster economies re-emerge from the pandemic lockdowns, the quicker and stronger the recovery in oil and gas demand. But whatever the rate of demand recovery for fossil fuels, it won’t change the fact that we live in an age of ample oil (and gas and coal).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the 5 year period to 2019, developing countries accounted for three quarters of global oil demand growth and the Asian developing countries accounted for over 70%. As the developing world, especially the rapidly-growing populous economies of Asia, emerge out of the coronavirus pandemic lockdowns, access to cheap fossil fuels will be critical over the next few decades. Coal, oil and gas have powered urbanization, industrialization and agricultural productivity, and have led to improvements in the standards of living for the vast majority of the global population.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For the hundreds of millions of people that have newly emerged from poverty in recent decades and are beginning to enjoy the fruits of economic growth and technological progress across Asia, Africa and Latin America – among the greatest achievements in human history – demanding that the global use of fossil fuels be curtailed would be unacceptable. Wishing for a premature end to the Age of Oil (and gas and coal) will do humanity irreparable harm."[/FONT]

 
longview said:
Are the tax breaks the Government give to fossil fuel companies exclusive to fossil fuel companies?
For the most part, businesses are allowed to write off those portions of gross profits that is takes to provide
the good or service for sale, taxes are on net profits.
So the oil company get to write off the cost of exploration for new oil, while the department store,
can write off the cost of renting retail space. These are very different write off, but still both legitimate business expenses.
Click to expand...

I have provided a source for global subsidies to fossil fuel and you Lord of Planar have provided only speculations and no sources to refute it.

$400bn in global fossil fuel consumption subsidies, twice that for renewables - Energy Post
 
Denmark got 64% of electricity from wind and solar power the first half of this year while Ireland got 49% and Germany 42%.

EU Electricity Analysis H1-2020 - Ember

There you are also seeing great advancement in energy storage like for example in California.

"The California Independent System Operator Corp. on July 13 announced that the first phase of LS Power Group’s Gateway Energy Storage Project connected to its power grid, adding 62.5 megawatts of storage, the largest in the U.S. The entire project, expected to come online in August, will have a total capacity of 250 megawatts.
The grid operator expects a six-fold increase in storage capacity if projects in the interconnection queue are completed as planned, reaching 923 megawatts by the end of 2020 from just 136 megawatts at the start of the year. The system operator, which serves about 80 percent of California and a small part of Nevada, currently has about 216 megawatts in commercial operation."

California Grid Operator Adds 62 Megawatts of Battery Storage, Largest in U.S. >> EnerKnol

There electric vehicles can also be a great opportunity for storing energy.

Electric Vehicle Batteries Will ‘Dwarf’ The Grid’s Energy-Storage Needs
 
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