• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

Steve Case said:
Here's a You Tube from earlier this year:





"Does Wall Street have something in their desks that makes steel? Where's the fertilizer, cement,
plastic - where's it going to come from? ... Do planes fly through the sky because of some number
you put on a spreadsheet? The madness of this! ... There is no substitute for how the industrial
economy runs today."

I couldn't have said it better myself (-:
Click to expand...


Have you actually watched it? He's not slamming wind and solar energy; he's having a go at financial people who think they can solve the climate crisis with numbers rather than innovation!

If you really want to know what Gates thinks of solar and wind power, why not look at his blog rather than some badly annotated snatch of video:

A-critical-step-to-reduce-climate-change | Bill Gates

"Wind and solar power generation is expanding around the globe at record rates, allowing more people to get their electricity from clean, renewable sources than ever before. This is great news.

And here’s better news: We can do even more. By investing in energy innovations, we can build on the progress we’ve made deploying current technology like renewables, which will help accelerate the transition from fossil fuels to a future of reliable and affordable carbon-free electricity. "
 
Media_Truth said:
All the automakers are focusing on Electric Vehicles, with the understanding that this is the FUTURE!
Click to expand...

I think most are just cashing in on the subsidies while they can.
 
[h=2]Attempts To Use Electric Buses In Germany Flop…”Many Disadvantages”, “Short Service Life”, “No Real Progress”[/h]By P Gosselin on 17. December 2019
Few places virtue signal green as much as Germany.
So not surprisingly a number of cities led by socialist/green governments have attempted to implement electric public transportation buses, declaring they are the future of clean mobility.

Electric powered buses still struggling to be successful. Image: Flixbus​
But Tichy’s Einblick just recently reported on the results of attempted electric bus fleets across Germany. They are not pretty.
Electrically driven public transport by bus is still a long way off.
FlixBus suspends electric bus after “repeated technical problems”
One example, Tichy’s Einblick cites, is German intercity bus carrier FlixBus, which worked with Greenpeace to promote the electric bus on the route between Mannheim and Frankfurt as a showcase project – all accompanied by ample fanfare and slogans such as “sustainable travel” and “the mobility of the future is green”.
But last April Greenpeace reported the discontinuation of the first nationwide electric long-distance bus line: “The long-distance bus provider announced on Wednesday that there had been repeated technical problems during the pilot project between Mannheim and Frankfurt with the vehicle of a Chinese manufacturer. These problems with the bus of Chinese manufacturer BYD must have been so massive that the project was suspended.”
Tichy’s Einblick reports the “only one thing that was really sustainable about the project was the disappointment of the travelers.”
Wiesbaden: 45 million euros, only on flat routes
Tichy’s Einblick also looked at the city of Wiesbaden where city bus operator ESWE Stadtwerke ordered 56 electric buses in April of this year and the first five were to run in October, with another five to follow in November. But so far none have “made any further progress yet”.

Wiesbaden plans a total of 140 electric buses, all to be supported by 45 million euros in taxpayers’ money from the Federal Environment Ministry. Yet Tichy’s Einblick reports that only the “flat inner city stretches are to be served” and that “they do not dare to venture onto the steeper streets on the outskirts.”
Also: “A battery charge should last 150 kilometers, but less if the temperatures are freezing and the bus is full: 100 kilometers.” That would mean about 3 hours of service before a recharge becomes needed.
Nürtingen electric bus pilot “a flop”…battery 80,000 euros!
In the city of Nürtingen, “The electric bus pilot project is a flop,” says Tichy’s Einblick. “The battery on a bus was broken after two and a half years of operation, and a new one costs 80,000 euros. Too much – that’s why the operation is stopped.”
Trier: buses taken out of service after just 2 weeks
Tichy’s Einblick also sarcastically reports that since July, “The electric buses in Trier have proven to be truly quiet and environmentally friendly: They are idol.”
“Already after two weeks the first electric bus had to stay in the workshop. Reason: Problems with the battery. An end of the problems is not in sight,” according toTichy’s Einblick.
Bremen backs off electric bus plans: “many disadvantages”
The failures of the electric buses on German streets has not gone unnoticed. Even the Green/Socialist government of the northern city of Bremen has made “a 180-degree turn”.
Earlier the city had planned to purchase five electric buses, 40 percent of which were to be funded by the federal government. But the Bremen city government opted out of the plan. “The reason: It is still unclear whether the electric drive really is the technology of the future.”
According to Tichy’s Einblick: “Bremen Mayor Maike Schaefer (Green Party) says that e-mobility has many disadvantages: ‘The batteries need cobalt, which comes from mines in the Congo. Exploitative child labor prevails there.'”
“Currently, the electric vehicles also have such a short service life that their carbon footprint does not represent any real progress compared with conventional technologies,” writes Tichy’s Einblick.
 
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]Norway Names Controversial Climate Change Skeptic As New Oil Minister[/h][FONT=&quot]From OILPRICE.COM By Tsvetana Paraskova – Dec 18, 2019, 3:30 PM CST Norway appointed on Wednesday a skeptic on wind power and climate change as its new oil minister who will oversee oil and gas drilling and wind turbine installations on and offshore Western Europe’s largest oil producer. Sylvi Listhaug of the right-wing Progress Party…
Continue reading →
[/FONT]
 
There are a lot of benefits with electric vehicles.

"You’ll also be wowed by the smoothness of the ride. With few moving parts there is less bumpiness as energy is transferred from the motor to the wheels.

And, of course, you’ll be able to hear yourself think because EVs are whisper quiet – the only sound you will hear is the whistling of the wind or the chirping of birds.

Finally, when, you decide to take your test drive onto the open road, the deal will be sealed.

EVs are not only quick off the mark, they have high top-end speeds and a low center of gravity allowing you to hug with confidence even the most treacherous of hair-pins for an unforgettably thrilling ride. You’ll never look back."

Daily Benefits of Electrification

Investment in renewable energy can also help to reduce the cost of electricity.

"The shift to more than 50% clean energy in South Australia led to the lowest average wholesale power prices in the national electricity grid over the past two months, an audit has found.

According to the national energy emissions audit published by the Australia Institute, South Australia has had lower monthly wholesale electricity prices than Victoria since January, than New South Wales since August and than Queensland and Tasmania for the past two months."

South Australia’s clean-energy shift brings lowest power prices on national grid, audit finds | Australia news | The Guardian
 
[h=2]German Professor Of Mechanical Engineering Says Electric Mobility “A Pointless Dream”…”Will Never Work”[/h]By P Gosselin on 25. December 2019
Ingolstadt-today.de here reports on Professor Dr. Jörg Wellnitz from the Technical University in Ingolstadt calling the future of electric cars a “pointless dream” and that this is an opinion shared by many other experts.


Mechanical engineering professor says electric mobility “will never work”. Photo credit. ​
“Pointless” endeavor
“The uncompromising path to e-mobility is as pointless as it is without any discernible effect on the Earth’s climate,” he told the Ingolstadt-today.de. “The German professor of mechanical engineering has “stepped on a lot of people’s toes with this,” the Ingolstadt-today.de reports.


E-mobility has become a “question of faith,” Wellnitz says, adding that “people either believe in the evil CO2 as a climate killer, or they don’t.”
Enormous costs for no benefit
Wellnitz quotes Danish climate researcher Björn Lomborg, who sees Germany’s foray into green energy as a huge waste of resources, and who calculated that if Germany spent 43 billion on CO2 reduction over 80 years, global warming would be reduced by just 0.01 degrees.”
Industrial suicide for Germany
Wellnitz thinks that the ambitious targets for sales of electric cars will end with a slump in sales for German car manufacturers, is sure the electric car “can’t work”, that it is “industrial suicide”and it too is also “a climate catastrophe”. He thinks people should be given what they need, a highly efficient and clean engine like the diesel, for example.

According to Wellnitz, around eight percent of global CO2 emissions are attributable to the car.
CO2 easy to politicize
The distinguished expert also says CO2 is not a climate killer, but a vital gas, one that it is extremely easy to politicize. “It is easy to turn this screw, everyone understands it and it can be measured immediately, people believe. But recent research, says Wellnitz, has shown that even if the saturation of CO2 in the atmosphere were to reach 800 ppm, an almost unattainable value, global warming would only be affected by around 0.4 degrees.
He adds: “If there is a greenhouse effect, it’s been around for a long time.” Other gases such as methane, nitrous oxide and CFCs are far more harmful to the climate and relevant to global warming than CO2, writes Ingolstadt-today.de. “But we focused on CO2 and the car has to be evil,” says Wellnitz.
“Massive renunciation of cherished amenities”
The professor of mechanical engineering also claims that a climate-neutral Europe is impossible as long as we produce our goods in China or India and that consumer behavior would have to change radically if we want to achieve CO2 neutrality. In plain language that would mean: “a massive renunciation of cherished amenities.”
Ingolstadt-today.de also writes that Wellnitz also reacts with some incomprehension to “15-year-old climate ambassadors who don’t even know how to spell C02, but who let their parents drive them to tree-planting campaigns in their SUVs.”
Middle Age trading of indulgences
Wellnitz himself says CO2 has become a question of faith and that the trade in pollution certificates is reminiscent of the indulgence trade of the Middle Ages. For him it makes more sense to prepare for global warming of two degrees and that the shortage of water will become a massive problem for the next decades, a problem that is not as easy to solve as the problem with fossil fuels.
“Will never work”
Germany is sacrificing its high level of competence in engine design for an electrical future that, according to Wellnitz, “will never work.”





 
[FONT=&quot]Climate Politics[/FONT]
[h=1]Congress Says Nay to Expanding EV Tax Credits[/h][FONT=&quot]From The Truth About Cars By Matt Posky on December 23, 2019 Prior to Congress taking the rest of the month off to relax and presumably gear up for an impeachment trial, they first had to settle their year-end tax package. Automakers were hoping that would include an extension of electric vehicle tax credits, but…
[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Climate cash[/FONT]
[h=1]British Police Admit Electric Vehicles are Useless for Police Work[/h][FONT=&quot]Guest essay by Eric Worrall h/t Breitbart; Police forces in Britain are facing questions over the waste of millions of pounds purchasing electric vehicles which are not up to the job of chasing criminals or responding to emergency situations. Police ‘waste’ £1.5MILLION on electric cars that they admit are useless for chasing criminals because they…
[/FONT]
 
 
[FONT=&quot]natural gas[/FONT]
[h=1]Natural gas “emerging as the world’s go-to fuel” for electricity generation[/h][FONT=&quot]Guest natural gas cheer-leading by David Middleton Dec 15, 2019Global Natural Gas Electricity Is Gaining On Coal Jude Clemente Contributor EnergyI cover oil, gas, power, LNG markets, linking to human development. Perhaps the primary question for climate and reducing greenhouse gas emissions is the ability of natural gas to displace coal in the power generation…
[/FONT]
 
[h=2]Wind Turbine crashes on carpark in NY[/h]
Wind turbines pose a threat not just to bats, birds and bedtime, but also Buicks, buildings and babies.
By some miracle luck, no one was killed. This wind turbine was installed two weeks ago…

Coming soon: insurance premiums to rise in car parks under turbines, and real estate values to fall. Children’s car seats to be reinforced with 6ft thick titanium shells.
Presumably Al Gore and the member for Warringah will dismiss the risk and plan to build one in their own backyards.
Repeat after me: Wind energy is free and there are no hidden costs from installing gigatons of infrastructure across the country to catch low-density random unreliable energy.

 
Jack Hays said:
[h=2]Wind Turbine crashes on carpark in NY[/h]
Wind turbines pose a threat not just to bats, birds and bedtime, but also Buicks, buildings and babies.
By some miracle luck, no one was killed. This wind turbine was installed two weeks ago…

Coming soon: insurance premiums to rise in car parks under turbines, and real estate values to fall. Children’s car seats to be reinforced with 6ft thick titanium shells.
Presumably Al Gore and the member for Warringah will dismiss the risk and plan to build one in their own backyards.
Repeat after me: Wind energy is free and there are no hidden costs from installing gigatons of infrastructure across the country to catch low-density random unreliable energy.
Click to expand...

They would have been better off putting a roof over the parking structure finished in solar cells.
 
Jack Hays said:
[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/26/congress-says-nay-to-expanding-ev-tax-credits/"]
Tesla_Model_S_Article.jpg
[/URL]Climate Politics[/FONT]
[h=1]Congress Says Nay to Expanding EV Tax Credits[/h][FONT="]From The Truth About Cars By Matt Posky on December 23, 2019 Prior to Congress taking the rest of the month off to relax and presumably gear up for an impeachment trial, they first had to settle their year-end tax package. Automakers were hoping that would include an extension of electric vehicle tax credits, but…
[/FONT]
Click to expand...
Wow. The democrats are letting go of what they like to call subsidies? Wow...

I wonder how many people who make the qualification would actually have enough income to buy one? Part of their Green Act:

Sec. 402. Credit for previously-owned qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicles (§ 25E).
The provision creates a new credit for buyers of used plug-in electric cars from date of enactment through 2024. Buyers can claim a base credit of $1,250 for the purchase of qualifying used EVs, with additional incentives for battery capacity. The credit is capped at the lesser of $2,500 credit or 30% of the sale price.
To qualify for this credit, used EVs must generally meet the eligibility requirements in the existing § 30D credit for new EVs, not exceed a sale price of $25,000, and be a model year that is at least two years earlier than the date of sale.
Buyers with up to $30,000 ($60,000 for married couples filing jointly) in adjusted gross income can claim the full amount of the credit. The credit phases out so that buyers with below $40,000 ($70,000 for married couples) in AGI may be eligible for a reduced credit. Buyers must purchase the vehicle from a dealership for personal use and cannot claim the credit more than once every three years. The credit only applies to the first resale of a used EV and includes restrictions on sales between related parties.​
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Denmark got 47 percent of their electricity from wind power last year.

Denmark sources record 47% of power from wind in 2019 - Reuters

There you also have seen a dramatic drop in cost for renewables and energy storage.

Declining renewable costs drive focus on energy storage | REVE News of the wind sector in Spain and in the world
Click to expand...

Well, they pay more than three times than I do.

Do you want to pay double or more in electricity, because paying more is what such high renewable usage does.

I pay about 11 cents/kWh for electricity. In Denmark, they pay about 34 US cents per kWh.

Keep championing such a nation, where I bet their poor can barely afford to use electricity.

• Electricity prices Europe 2018 | Statista
 
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]MEMGA! Leviathan natural gas field comes online $150M under budget[/h][FONT=&quot]Guest natural gas cheer-leading by David Middleton MEMGA! = Making the Eastern Mediterranean Great Again! It seems like just a few weeks ago that some nitwit was bemoaning the death of the eastern Mediterranean… Noble Energy’s first gas from Leviathan comes in $150M under budget 12/31/2019 HOUSTON – Noble Energy announced the commencement of natural…
Continue reading →
[/FONT]
 
Lord of Planar said:
Well, they pay more than three times than I do.

Do you want to pay double or more in electricity, because paying more is what such high renewable usage does.

I pay about 11 cents/kWh for electricity. In Denmark, they pay about 34 US cents per kWh.

Keep championing such a nation, where I bet their poor can barely afford to use electricity.

• Electricity prices Europe 2018 | Statista
Click to expand...

There are no correlation between percent of renewable and electricity cost or increase in renewables and increase in electricity prices for consumers in Europe. Also Danish people pay roughly the same percent of income for electricity as other European household thanks to energy saving measures and a strong economy.

Electricity Prices in Europe - Who pays the most? [2010 - 2017]

Also investment in renewables energy have really payed because renewables are now outcompeting fossil fuel and other energy sources on price.

Huge Battery Investments Drop Energy-Storage Costs Faster Than Expected, Threatening Natural Gas
 
Bergslagstroll said:
There are no correlation between percent of renewable and electricity cost or increase in renewables and increase in electricity prices for consumers in Europe. Also Danish people pay roughly the same percent of income for electricity as other European household thanks to energy saving measures and a strong economy.

Electricity Prices in Europe - Who pays the most? [2010 - 2017]
Click to expand...
LOL yeah right. Your own link says that the Danes and the Germans pay the highest electric rates in Europe. Thanks for proving yourself wrong. :lamo

eJ8cZ4x.png
 
PoS said:
LOL yeah right. Your own link says that the Danes and the Germans pay the highest electric rates in Europe. Thanks for proving yourself wrong. :lamo

eJ8cZ4x.png
Click to expand...

Ireland and Belgium have a much smaller percent renewables than several other European countries. That a lot of factors affect electricity price, for example that industry often pay a lot less in Europe.

• Industrial electricity prices across Europe 2018 | Statista

Also you have this image how much of income household have to spend on electricity.

strompreis-einkommen-vergleich-400x235.png


That energy savings can play a big role in reducing how much household have to pay. Sadly US have a president that wants to stop energy saving measures.

Trump Bends the Facts on Lightbulbs - FactCheck.org
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom