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Thread: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

  1. #131
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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Media_Truth View Post
    Every KWH generated by wind is one less KWH generated by coal and natural gas. It also avoids all the associated mining, extraction, and transport of these resources. Funny how you conveniently ignore this fact.
    Yes, we all know that.

    It also decreases the output of a fossil fuel plan and makes it less efficient, causing the cost of power to rise.
    The left says the right is full of racists and bigots and have no tolerance. Nobody from the right organizes interference with gay pride parades, or other leftist events. The left however always has a group interfering with events organized by the right. Who are the tolerant ones I ask? Most certainly not the left.

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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I've responded before to that link. The cheapest price of power is around $50/megawatt-hour, and I showed how my bill charges me 6 something cents per kWh, and a link (you I think) responded back had industrial power at under 4 cents.

    How much more will you or I pay with electricity added to the mix at $50+ wholsale per megawatt-hour?

    I'm not arguing that Iowa doesn't get 35% of their power from wind. It is more expensive for their consumers though. What happens when the feds stop subsidization it, and 10-20 year old plants cost more to maintain than the EOM advertised?

    I don't need to offer proof. I don't care if you look this type of thing up for yourself or not. I have no proof to offer from my 40+ years of experience in technical field.

    How do you prove experience?
    Onshore wind costs are already as low as $0.03-0.04/kWh while you have new photovoltaic solar power system with levelized cost of electricity of as low as $0.03/kWh. While the avarage cost of electricity in the US is $0.12/kWh.

    Renewable Energy Costs Take Another Tumble, Making Fossil Fuels Look More Expensive Than Ever

    The Price Of Electricity In Your State : Planet Money : NPR

  3. #133
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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    Onshore wind costs are already as low as $0.03-0.04/kWh while you have new photovoltaic solar power system with levelized cost of electricity of as low as $0.03/kWh. While the avarage cost of electricity in the US is $0.12/kWh.

    Renewable Energy Costs Take Another Tumble, Making Fossil Fuels Look More Expensive Than Ever

    The Price Of Electricity In Your State : Planet Money : NPR
    That 2011 NPR article is out of date. Electricity is in the neighborhood of 20% more now. That's retail price. Mine is around 11 cents now, with wholesale around 3 cents, most;y from hydro-power.

    As for your 3 cents levelized cost, that's in equatorial regions, and I doubt it's really that cheap.
    The left says the right is full of racists and bigots and have no tolerance. Nobody from the right organizes interference with gay pride parades, or other leftist events. The left however always has a group interfering with events organized by the right. Who are the tolerant ones I ask? Most certainly not the left.

  4. #134
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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Yes, we all know that.

    It also decreases the output of a fossil fuel plan and makes it less efficient, causing the cost of power to rise.
    A well-managed natural gas fired power plant can be effectively load-managed to avoid extra costs. Texas uses more wind power more than any other state. Last I looked, they were #11 in low-cost electricity in the country.

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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Media_Truth View Post
    A well-managed natural gas fired power plant can be effectively load-managed to avoid extra costs. Texas uses more wind power more than any other state. Last I looked, they were #11 in low-cost electricity in the country.
    It increases their overall levelized costs when they produce less power than they can.
    The left says the right is full of racists and bigots and have no tolerance. Nobody from the right organizes interference with gay pride parades, or other leftist events. The left however always has a group interfering with events organized by the right. Who are the tolerant ones I ask? Most certainly not the left.

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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    It increases their overall levelized costs when they produce less power than they can.
    Not so much. Wind power can now be predicted with great accuracy. Once it can be predicted, much can be done - reduction and shifting of manpower at other facilities, etc. Required Preventative Maintenance (PMs) can be performed on equipment, etc., etc.

    Variability versus predictability of wind power production

    Today, wind energy forecasting uses sophisticated numerical weather forecast models, wind power plant generation models and statistical methods to predict generation at five-minute to one-hour intervals, over periods of up to 48 to 72 hours in advance and for seasonal and annual periods.

    Forecasting wind power production differs from forecasting other generation forms or forecasting the load. Wind, being a natural phenomenon, is better suited to reliable statistical treatment and physical forecasting than conventional plants which are subject to physical faults.

    Wind power prediction can be quite accurate for aggregated wind power, as the variations are levelled out; and the larger the area, the better the overall prediction. The extent to which prediction error decreases with the size of the region considered is shown in Figure 2.6. It should be noted that the forecast accuracy is reduced for longer prediction periods.

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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    That 2011 NPR article is out of date. Electricity is in the neighborhood of 20% more now. That's retail price. Mine is around 11 cents now, with wholesale around 3 cents, most;y from hydro-power.

    As for your 3 cents levelized cost, that's in equatorial regions, and I doubt it's really that cheap.
    The difference in latitude isn't that big between southern American states and Middle Eastern countries. There southern American states also have a great opportunities for solar power with very sunny areas. Also new onshore wind project have costs as low as $0.03-0.04/kWh there latitude doesn't matter.

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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    The difference in latitude isn't that big between southern American states and Middle Eastern countries. There southern American states also have a great opportunities for solar power with very sunny areas. Also new onshore wind project have costs as low as $0.03-0.04/kWh there latitude doesn't matter.
    Sorry, I don't believe that for a levelized cost. The lowest costs to date have been seen at 5 cent estimates, and not proven to be that over time yet.
    The left says the right is full of racists and bigots and have no tolerance. Nobody from the right organizes interference with gay pride parades, or other leftist events. The left however always has a group interfering with events organized by the right. Who are the tolerant ones I ask? Most certainly not the left.

  9. #139
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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Sorry, I don't believe that for a levelized cost. The lowest costs to date have been seen at 5 cent estimates, and not proven to be that over time yet.
    So you simple "believe" the numbers are wrong without providing any sources of your own. That the fact is that investment in renewables energy have really paid off. That investment in renewables have lead to economy of scale and innovation so that you have seen and continue to see a drastic drop in cost.

  10. #140
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    Re: Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    So you simple "believe" the numbers are wrong without providing any sources of your own. That the fact is that investment in renewables energy have really paid off. That investment in renewables have lead to economy of scale and innovation so that you have seen and continue to see a drastic drop in cost.
    If they have paid off, then good for them

    Now... by "paid off" do you mean they already sold enough electricity to cover all the design and planning costs, and now make enough money to pay all the employees operating and maintaining them?
    The left says the right is full of racists and bigots and have no tolerance. Nobody from the right organizes interference with gay pride parades, or other leftist events. The left however always has a group interfering with events organized by the right. Who are the tolerant ones I ask? Most certainly not the left.

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