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Thread: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

  1. #31
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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Didnt you read the title? It says coldest day in seven years. If all the manmade CO2 is causing global warming, then why are cold records still being broken?
    If you disagree with the unanimous international consensus of every single scientific organization on the entire planet in the subject, you need to figure out where you’re going wrong. Take some classes. There are good introductory textbooks on the subject you can get from Amazon.

    You sound pretty smart. Educate yourself. Willful, stubborn, and proud ignorance is not a virtue.

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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by Surface Detail View Post
    That really is an extraordinarily stupid remark.

    Just look at 3G's GISSTEMP graph. 2018: coldest year for 2 years; 2011: coldest year for 2 years; 2008: coldest year for 4 years; etc. Yet the trend of the graph is obviously upwards. That's why cold records are still being broken even though the globe is warming. (And that's before you even begin to consider local effects.)
    Is warming from the coldest point of the Holocene a bad thing?

    How cold is good?

    What is the ideal global temperature?

    If it was as warm and warmer in the past than it is now, what makes you think that the PRIMARY cause of our relatively minor warming today is the emission of CO2?

    We've warmed less than 1 degree in 2000 years. We are about as warm as we were 5000 years ago. We are about 1 degree cooler than we were 8000 years ago.

    Climate change is real, perpetual and ongoing. Man's carbon powered industrialization is recent, probably temporary and anomalous.

    A very, very large part of the CO2 adding to the atmosphere today results from outgassing from the permafrost. This is not anthropogenic.

    Something else to consider regarding outgassing is that the plants that were frozen in the permafrost once were GROWING in warm soil. Warm soil used to be warm. Think about it.

    The instrument record you seem to be possessed by represents less than 200 years in a 4.5 BILLION year planetary history. Propaganda is NOT science.
    Last edited by code1211; 08-20-19 at 06:13 AM.
    Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, ...every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right. -George Orwell

  3. #33
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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Is warming from the coldest point of the Holocene a bad thing?

    How cold is good?

    What is the ideal global temperature?

    If it was as warm and warmer in the past than it is now, what makes you think that the PRIMARY cause of our relatively minor warming today is the emission of CO2?

    We've warmed less than 1 degree in 2000 years. We are about as warm as we were 5000 years ago. We are about 1 degree cooler than we were 8000 years ago.

    Climate change is real, perpetual and ongoing. Man's carbon powered industrialization is recent, probably temporary and anomalous.

    A very, very large part of the CO2 adding to the atmosphere today results from outgassing from the permafrost. This is not anthropogenic.

    Something else to consider regarding outgassing is that the plants that were frozen in the permafrost once were GROWING in warm soil. Warm soil used to be warm. Think about it.

    The instrument record you seem to be possessed by represents less than 200 years in a 4.5 BILLION year planetary history. Propaganda is NOT science.
    These common questions and misunderstandings are all answered in good introductory textbooks on the subject. Pick one up on Amazon. There are also good courses in the topic, both online and, I am sure, offered at your local community college or university.

    Willful and stubborn ignorance is not a virtue.
    Last edited by ataraxia; 08-20-19 at 06:41 AM.

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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by Surface Detail View Post
    Reconstructed =/= recorded

    And that graph doesn't show the warming of the past 150 years or so.
    I think you are confusing the ideas of recording and measuring.

    Did you know that NASA and GISS routinely discard the data they liked yesterday and replace it with with data that they like better today?

    Kinda make ya wonder why they do this doesn't it? Kinda makes you wonder HOW they do this doesn't it?

    In 1999, the official temperature record of the most temperature measured plot of land in the Universe, the USA, was discarded and replaced with a different set of temperatures.

    Almost all temperatures that were "recorded" before 1970 were cooled and almost all temperatures that were "recorded" after 1970 were warmed. This alone, absent any real world warming, manufactured a warming trend.

    So much for "recorded" temperatures. The temperatures "recorded" in 1938 to be warmer than the temperatures "recorded" in 1998 were reversed so 1998 became warmer than 1938.

    Regardless of the temperatures "recorded", though, we know with absolute certainty that several glaciers have melted today that formed about 5000 to 7000 years ago. No instrumentation needed.

    This tells us two things regarding climate that are undeniable:

    1. We are warming now
    2. The warming we are experiencing is not unusual, not unprecedented and could be caused by things not anthropogenic.

    If the emoji head ache caused by rolling your eyes is not too grave at this point, give this a little thought:

    We have been much, much warmer during the fairly recent cycling of ice ages and interglacials while the CO2 concentration was much, much lower. If CAGW Theory is not a myth, how could this happen?
    Last edited by code1211; 08-20-19 at 06:45 AM.
    Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, ...every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right. -George Orwell

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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post


    Congratulations on not understanding basic terminology.

    When we are discussing temperatures "on record," that refers to instrumental temperature records, which date back to 1880. (The article, which I'm assuming you did not read, includes that information.) The term does not refer to earlier information derived from proxies.





    1) Word salad. Not impressive.

    2) NASA is not erasing anything. You're just displaying your ignorance.
    I see...

    You think that "recording" and "measuring" are synonyms. How sad...

    When the ignorant encounter truth that contradicts cherished dogma, they reject it.

    Sorry that English confuses you.

    How NOAA/NASA Doctored Temperature Data To Get Record Warm Years | PSI Intl
    Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, ...every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right. -George Orwell

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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    These common questions and misunderstandings are all answered in good introductory textbooks on the subject. Pick one up on Amazon. There are also good courses in the topic, both online and, I am sure, offered at your local community college or university.

    Willful and stubborn ignorance is not a virtue.
    You neglected to answer any question that I asked.

    Can you point out the error in any assertion that I made?

    Why is the first move of so many to END discussion rather than explore thoughts?
    Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, ...every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right. -George Orwell

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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    You neglected to answer any question that I asked.

    Can you point out the error in any assertion that I made?

    Why is the first move of so many to END discussion rather than explore thoughts?
    Because I am no expert on the subject. And neither are you. This is like two first graders trying to teach each other physics.

    If you’re interested in a topic and don’t agree with the experts on it, you need to go get yourself educated, see what it is you’re not understanding, where are you are going wrong in your thinking, and remedy it- not ask my thoughts on it.

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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    I see...

    You think that "recording" and "measuring" are synonyms. How sad...


    No, the sad thing here is your deliberate choice not to understand basic scientific terms.


    Oh look, a conspiracy theorist denier website. Hard pass.
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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    If you disagree with the unanimous international consensus of every single scientific organization on the entire planet in the subject, you need to figure out where you’re going wrong. Take some classes. There are good introductory textbooks on the subject you can get from Amazon.

    You sound pretty smart. Educate yourself. Willful, stubborn, and proud ignorance is not a virtue.
    LOL unanimous consensus my butt. Appeal to authority fallacy is more like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surface Detail View Post
    Oh, for Heaven's sake. It's like talking to a 3-year old. I was illustrating the obvious fact that you can have record lows during a warming trend, even on a global scale. On local scales, much longer records are possible due to the greater variability. Really, it is hard to understand how this isn't all completely obvious to an adult of normal intelligence!
    False, the cold records mean the warming trend is natural.

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    Re: Early 2019 UK weather: coldest day in seven years as mercury drops to -14.4C

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Did you know that NASA and GISS routinely discard the data they liked yesterday and replace it with with data that they like better today?
    Please, spare us your lies, kthx.


    Almost all temperatures that were "recorded" before 1970 were cooled and almost all temperatures that were "recorded" after 1970 were warmed. This alone, absent any real world warming, manufactured a warming trend.
    1) Lose the scare quotes. Those temperatures were in fact recorded, using instruments. Again! We distinguish this from proxy measurements.

    2) You have it backwards. Earlier instrumental temperature measurements were adjusted higher, and more recent adjustments are minimal. And of course, both the raw data, adjusted data, and adjustment methodologies are all publicly available. This is the exact opposite of what you'd want to do, if you were engineering some Top Sekrit Conspiracy to Fake Warming!!!

    Adjusted - Raw Temp Data.jpg


    This tells us two things regarding climate that are undeniable:

    1. We are warming now
    Tell that to your fellow deniers, kthx.


    2. The warming we are experiencing is not unusual, not unprecedented and could be caused by things not anthropogenic.
    Epic fail. The warming we are experiencing is unusual and unprecedented, which is one of the numerous reasons why we know it is anthropic in origin.

    For example, it took around 6,000 years for temperatures to rise 3.5C at the end of the last Ice Age. In comparison, temperatures have risen about 0.85C since 1880. For the *cough* record, that means temperatures are rising ten times faster during the Industrial Era than at the end of the last Ice Age. Unsurprisingly, both were caused by increases in CO2. Hmmmmm.

    Oh, and temperatures were falling for a few thousand years, before shooting up rapidly at the start of the Common Era. Hmmmm.

    Global Temp Common Era.jpg


    We have been much, much warmer during the fairly recent cycling of ice ages and interglacials while the CO2 concentration was much, much lower. If CAGW Theory is not a myth, how could this happen?
    And that deserves another eyeroll

    The planet hasn't been this warm in 120,000 years -- and hasn't had this much CO2 in the atmosphere in 900,000 years or more. (By the way, that means we've already locked in significant amounts of warming.) And again, CO2 concentrations did increase before temperatures at the end of the last Ice Age:

    Ice Age Warming.jpg


    And hey, guess what? No, guess! Okay, I'll tell you. 120,000 years ago, there weren't 7 billion humans on the planet, nearly half of whom live in coastal areas, which are highly vulnerable to climate change -- as is most of our agricultural capacity. Not to mention that areas not on the coast are still subject to more frequent and worse droughts; larger and more intense heat waves; more frequent and worse forest fires; more erratic storms with higher volumes of precipitation... the list goes on.

    (We should also note that it is entirely plausible that those significantly gradual changes in climate did, in fact, disrupt hominid and human development; e.g. it most likely encouraged thousands of years of migration from Africa to Asia around 120,000 years ago.)

    So yeah. Climate change is due to human activity. What we are experiencing now is not normal. It's already having a negative impact on the planet, and will only get worse. And if we don't act now, it's going to be even worse in the future. We know this. There is no genuine doubt about it anymore.
    "Everyone should listen to me all the time about everything." - Rosa Diaz

    "When the mistakes fall disproportionately on one side, it is no respect for the notion of truth to pretend that everything is even." - Lee McIntyre

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