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Thread: The psychology of climate change denial

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Because the consensus was proving wrong. So your current consensus belief is just as wrong. Thanks for playing.
    Until the consensus is changed among the experts working in the field, it's not wrong.

    If you want to assume that consensus is always wrong, you would have to dismiss all modern science.

    What current science do you know that is NOT the consensus of the experts working in that field?
    Last edited by ataraxia; 05-28-20 at 11:44 AM.

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Because the consensus was proving wrong. So your current consensus belief is just as wrong. Thanks for playing.
    The consensus of... whom?

    Only uneducated people have thought those things over the last few hundred years.

    Anyone educated has known that the earth isnít flat for hundreds of years.
    This may go down as the worst avoidable public health disaster in US history -Eric Topol, MD on COVID-19

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    I don't know. Could be lots of things.

    The best case scenario I can think of, and probably the most likely, is just that they are scientists working on the fringes of the field, "kicking the tires" on the theory and trying to find alternative models. No one is shutting them down, of course. Their papers are still being approved by their peers in the peer-reviewed journals in the field. So these peers are aware of their work and allowing them to continue to speak and try to make their case. So there is nothing personal against them by the scientific community.

    But those same peers have not felt that they have yet made their case. There are scientists like Shaviv and Svensmark in all sorts of disciplines, and very rarely do they succeed in making a strong enough case to create some fundamental paradigm shift and change the consensus of the scientific community. The vast majority of them end up being forgotten as the science moves on. It seems the trends on this particular subject are moving strongly in that direction. Eventually even Shaviv and Svensmark may just realize they are barking up the wrong tree and give up. That's usually the heavy probability in such situations. But hey, folks like them serve a valuable service in being the contrarian voices and making sure all criticisms are being addressed as the theory becomes solidified.

    Of course there are worse case scenarios as well: that they are just paid shills or just a little kooky. I don't know about Shaviv or Svensmark directly, but I suspect many of the "scientists" involved in climate change denial are in that camp. How do I know? Because many of them are the very same ones hired by the tobacco company to deny the smoking/cancer link back when that was a big social issue.

    Tobacco and Oil Industries Used Same Researchers to Sway Public - Scientific American
    Your link provides no evidence at all to tie any climate skeptic scientist to tobacco.
    "Above all, not too much zeal." --Prince Talleyrand

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Extremists and agenda-driven people rarely perceive themselves as such.

    If a person is pointing to AGW to explain damn near everything notable that happens in the natural world, and repetitively goes back to making sweeping unspecified proclamations that we have "a problem that requires action," then that person falls on the side of being agenda-driven.
    If that person is joined by every science agency on the planet....they are the center

    Do you think the trump run NASA is extremist?

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Your link provides no evidence at all to tie any climate skeptic scientist to tobacco.
    Tobacco and big oil have all used the same playbook, the same PR firms, and many of the same set of recirculated scientists, to try to fight any science which they perceive may hate profits. Ties are all well-documented:

    Robot Check

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Your link provides no evidence at all to tie any climate skeptic scientist to tobacco.
    But youíve seen this info before. Fred Singer? Heartland?
    This may go down as the worst avoidable public health disaster in US history -Eric Topol, MD on COVID-19

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    This is like one first grader having an opinion on quantum mechanics, and others thinking they have the background and "basic scientific education" to agree or disagree with him. Laughable. That's not to say they shouldn't think for themselves. But first they need more than a "basic education" for their opinion to count.



    People all over the world didn't think it rotates until just a few centuries ago- any time in history, any place in the whole world. Are you telling me you would have been somehow different?
    I'm telling you that I have had a suficently good education and have a suficently good aptitude to be able to understand it that I can now do something that would be astonishing 500 years ago.

    Given I have this capacity, of a basics physics education, it also gives me the ability to spot when somebody has no clue at all about physics. Like if I spouted off about BaseBall. You would immediately know that I had no clue. The same is true for physics. I know you and such as 3goofs have no clue. I know Longview has a reasonable level of understanding of the things he talks about. At least better than my understanding of them.

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
    I'm telling you that I have had a suficently good education and have a suficently good aptitude to be able to understand it that I can now do something that would be astonishing 500 years ago.

    Given I have this capacity, of a basics physics education, it also gives me the ability to spot when somebody has no clue at all about physics. Like if I spouted off about BaseBall. You would immediately know that I had no clue. The same is true for physics. I know you and such as 3goofs have no clue. I know Longview has a reasonable level of understanding of the things he talks about. At least better than my understanding of them.
    You are inordinately proud of your high school physics class.
    This may go down as the worst avoidable public health disaster in US history -Eric Topol, MD on COVID-19

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    The consensus of... whom?

    Only uneducated people have thought those things over the last few hundred years.

    Anyone educated has known that the earth isnít flat for hundreds of years.
    All consensus is not science since the early days of history to the present, but of course you dont know this since you dont know what science is.

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    Re: The psychology of climate change denial

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    All consensus is not science since the early days of history to the present, but of course you dont know this since you dont know what science is.
    This is the ONLY area of science in which you do not believe the consensus due to your politics

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