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US in energy landmark as renewables produce more electricity than coal

Bergslagstroll

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Renewables beat coal for the first time in the US during April this year.

"Clean energy such as solar and wind provided 23% of US electricity generation during the month, compared to coal’s 20%, according to the Energy Information Administration.
This represents the first time coal has been surpassed by energy sources that do not release pollution such as planet-heating gases.

April was a favorable month for renewables, with low energy demand and an uptick in wind generation. This means that coal may once again pull ahead of renewables again during 2019, although the long-term trends appear to be set."

US in energy landmark as renewables produce more electricity than coal | Environment | The Guardian

There you also are starting to see a shift among Republican politcians.

Why Republican Leaders Love Renewable Energy

Some Republican Lawmakers Break With Party on Climate Change - WSJ
 
Coal has been dying slowly for over a generation. Given 25 more years most of the mines will be closed.
 
Coal has been dying slowly for over a generation. Given 25 more years most of the mines will be closed.
History tells us that the first heat engines were used at coal mines, to pump out water.
These beasts used large amounts of coal, but coal was what they were mining.
Later steam ships and trains used coal, and much later electrical dynamos.
Coal is logistically complicated, difficult to extract, difficult to transport, and burns dirty.
I suspect that plants close to coal mines will be the last to be economically viable, but at some point
even that will not be true.
I think a possible path is to convert the large heat engines in coal plants to ether small nuclear heat sources,
or natural gas fired boilers. The plants are well situated for demand, and a heat engine is a heat engine!
 
History tells us that the first heat engines were used at coal mines, to pump out water.
These beasts used large amounts of coal, but coal was what they were mining.
Later steam ships and trains used coal, and much later electrical dynamos.
Coal is logistically complicated, difficult to extract, difficult to transport, and burns dirty.
I suspect that plants close to coal mines will be the last to be economically viable, but at some point
even that will not be true.
I think a possible path is to convert the large heat engines in coal plants to ether small nuclear heat sources,
or natural gas fired boilers. The plants are well situated for demand, and a heat engine is a heat engine!

Natural or synthetic gas have dominated new or refurbished power generators for the last couple of decades. I don't mind nuclear but smaller plants are more flexible.
 
Natural or synthetic gas have dominated new or refurbished power generators for the last couple of decades. I don't mind nuclear but smaller plants are more flexible.
The transport is certainty easier. I lived down the road from a coal plant in the 80's,
and that several hundred rail cars of coal a day is nothing to laugh about.
 
The transport is certainty easier. I lived down the road from a coal plant in the 80's,
and that several hundred rail cars of coal a day is nothing to laugh about.

Not to mention the soot and toxic gasses. It's good that the coal plant is going away.
 
Not to mention the soot and toxic gasses. It's good that the coal plant is going away.
Well it will be good that they stop using coal as the heat source.
Most of those plants are in good locations from the perspective of providing electricity,
and have all the infrastructure to do what they are designed to do.
Ether small reactors, or natural gas ,(or man made methane) could keep the plants online for decades.
 
When green energy can actually replace oil based fuels by 100% is when I'll start believing in any of the OP's articles.
 
When green energy can actually replace oil based fuels by 100% is when I'll start believing in any of the OP's articles.
That is not a possibility in the foreseeable future. Power generation could go up to 80% eventually, but even that is problematic. Transport will be petro-driven far into the future.

That said, there is no doubt coal is on the way out. You can trust that much.
 
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Hydropower is the overwhelming preponderance of the "renewable" power here. The story is written to mislead.
 
Hydropower is the overwhelming preponderance of the "renewable" power here. The story is written to mislead.

Hydroelectric power constituted less than half of the renewable power, and is pretty much static while other sources are growing rapidly. It seems that you are writing to mislead!
 
Hydroelectric power constituted less than half of the renewable power, and is pretty much static while other sources are growing rapidly. It seems that you are writing to mislead!

Hydro produces a larger share than either solar or wind, and yet was unmentioned in the article.
 
That is not a possibility in the foreseeable future. Power generation could go up to 80% eventually, but even that is problematic. Transport will be petro-driven far into the future.

That said, there is no doubt coal is on the way out. You can trust that much.

The potential of renewables have been underestimated time after time.

IEA Gets Hilariously Slammed For Obsessively Inaccurate Renewable Energy Forecasts | CleanTechnica

Also that Denmark already gets 40 percent of their electricity from wind power and in total 68 percent of their electricity from renewables.

As Wind Turned Down A Notch, Solar Soared -- 2018 Renewable Energy Report Denmark | CleanTechnica

While in Norway and 1 out of 3 cars sold in the market was a zero-emission vehicle last year and 49 percent of the market including plug in hybrids.

Electric car sales grew by 40% in Norway this year - Electrek
 
Renewable energy sources can make a big impact, even on urban transport. What they cannot do is long haul freight, work in severe conditions, etc. Also, you are changing one form of pollution for another. It's progress not a panacea.
 
Hydroelectric power constituted less than half of the renewable power, and is pretty much static while other sources are growing rapidly. It seems that you are writing to mislead!

Also, I seem to recall that they don't include residential rooftop solar in any Utility numbers. There are over 3 million homes with PV systems. That probably puts renewables closer to 30%...
 
Also, I seem to recall that they don't include residential rooftop solar in any Utility numbers. There are over 3 million homes with PV systems. That probably puts renewables closer to 30%...

PV is included.

Electricity in the United States - Energy Explained, Your Guide To ... - EIA


U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) › Energy Explained › Secondary Sources › Electricity



chart showing U.S. electricity generation from renewable sources by type, 1950-2017 ... The United States uses many different energy sources and technologies to ... include gas turbines, hydro turbines, wind turbines, and solar photovoltaics.

[h=3]Renewable energy sources provide nearly 20% of U.S. electricity[/h]A variety of renewable energy sources are used to generate electricity and were the source of about 17% of total U.S. electricity generation in 2018.
Hydropower plants produced about 7% of total U.S. electricity generation and about 41% of electricity generation from renewable energy in 2018. Hydropower plants use flowing water to spin a turbine connected to a generator.
Wind energy was the source of about 7% of total U.S. electricity generation and about 39% of electricity generation from renewable energy in 2018. Wind turbines convert wind energy into electricity.
Biomass, the source of about 2% of total U.S. electricity generation in 2018, is burned directly in steam-electric power plants, or it can be converted to a gas that can be burned in steam generators, gas turbines, or internal combustion engine generators.
Solar energy provided about 2% of total U.S. electricity in 2018. Photovoltaic (PV) and solar-thermal power are the two main types of solar electricity generation technologies. PV conversion produces electricity directly from sunlight in a photovoltaic cell. Most solar-thermal power systems use steam turbines to generate electricity.
Geothermal power plants produced less than 1% of total U.S. electricity generation in 2018. Geothermal power plants use steam turbines to generate electricity.
 
PV is included.

Electricity in the United States - Energy Explained, Your Guide To ... - EIA


U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) › Energy Explained › Secondary Sources › Electricity



chart showing U.S. electricity generation from renewable sources by type, 1950-2017 ... The United States uses many different energy sources and technologies to ... include gas turbines, hydro turbines, wind turbines, and solar photovoltaics.

[h=3]Renewable energy sources provide nearly 20% of U.S. electricity[/h]A variety of renewable energy sources are used to generate electricity and were the source of about 17% of total U.S. electricity generation in 2018.
Hydropower plants produced about 7% of total U.S. electricity generation and about 41% of electricity generation from renewable energy in 2018. Hydropower plants use flowing water to spin a turbine connected to a generator.
Wind energy was the source of about 7% of total U.S. electricity generation and about 39% of electricity generation from renewable energy in 2018. Wind turbines convert wind energy into electricity.
Biomass, the source of about 2% of total U.S. electricity generation in 2018, is burned directly in steam-electric power plants, or it can be converted to a gas that can be burned in steam generators, gas turbines, or internal combustion engine generators.
Solar energy provided about 2% of total U.S. electricity in 2018. Photovoltaic (PV) and solar-thermal power are the two main types of solar electricity generation technologies. PV conversion produces electricity directly from sunlight in a photovoltaic cell. Most solar-thermal power systems use steam turbines to generate electricity.
Geothermal power plants produced less than 1% of total U.S. electricity generation in 2018. Geothermal power plants use steam turbines to generate electricity.

That's not residential PV, in the same way that they don't include residential Geothermal.
 
That's not residential PV, in the same way that they don't include residential Geothermal.

And this makes sense, from an Engineering standpoint. On PV residences, all they install is a meter that measures total KWH.

1. They don't know if the panels are on-line.
2. They don't know what KWH savings resulted from the panels.
3. In my case, I have a wind turbine and solar panels. They don't know KWH from the wind or the solar.
 
That's not residential PV, in the same way that they don't include residential Geothermal.

They include it.

Solar photovoltaic (PV) devices, or solar cells, change sunlight directly into electricity. Small PV cells can power calculators, watches, and other small electronic devices. Arrangements of many solar cells in PV panels and arrangements of multiple PV panels in PV arrays can produce electricity for an entire house. Some PV power plants have large arrays that cover many acres to produce electricity for thousands of homes.
 
They include it.

Solar photovoltaic (PV) devices, or solar cells, change sunlight directly into electricity. Small PV cells can power calculators, watches, and other small electronic devices. Arrangements of many solar cells in PV panels and arrangements of multiple PV panels in PV arrays can produce electricity for an entire house. Some PV power plants have large arrays that cover many acres to produce electricity for thousands of homes.

How ridiculous Jack! No link! And the paragraph doesn't even talk about that. Here's where I originally read this. If you persist in this argument, show the mathematics!

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/assumptions/pdf/renewable.pdf

The RFM considers only grid-connected central station electricity generation systems using biomass,
geothermal, conventional hydroelectricity, LFG, solar (thermal and photovoltaic), and wind as the
energy sources.

...
Only grid-connected utility-scale generation is included in the RFM. Projections for end-use
solar PV generation are included in the CDM and RDM.


Only CAPACITY of residential solar systems can be measured, but that is not actual generation. And the kind of reports that you're referencing are actual generation.
 
How ridiculous Jack! No link! And the paragraph doesn't even talk about that. Here's where I originally read this. If you persist in this argument, show the mathematics!

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/assumptions/pdf/renewable.pdf

The RFM considers only grid-connected central station electricity generation systems using biomass,
geothermal, conventional hydroelectricity, LFG, solar (thermal and photovoltaic), and wind as the
energy sources.

...
Only grid-connected utility-scale generation is included in the RFM. Projections for end-use
solar PV generation are included in the CDM and RDM.


Only CAPACITY of residential solar systems can be measured, but that is not actual generation. And the kind of reports that you're referencing are actual generation.

It's the same link as #16. It's obvious (even from your post) that the residential capacity is included in the overall estimate.
 
It's the same link as #16. It's obvious (even from your post) that the residential capacity is included in the overall estimate.

Wrong! Your buddies in the coal industry and other fossil fuel industries would have a cow, if capacities were used in renewable numbers. Large wind farms and large solar generating stations monitor actual output. Homes do not. The only way to get that data would be to access the inverter electronics, and I can testify that this is NOT done. Only the latest inverters allow owners to access total numbers.

As it is, your buddies in the fossil fuel generating industry are very happy that residential solar is not included, because it makes it appear like solar only generates 1-2% of the energy of the US. The number is probably closer to 5%. There are 127 million households in the US, and over 3 million have residential solar.

Residential wind turbines are not counted in the electricity totals either.

For heating - Residential solar thermal systems are not counted (hot water and air heating). Residential geothermal systems (cooling and heating) are not counted. Residential passive solar systems are not counted. Etc, etc...
 
Wrong! Your buddies in the coal industry and other fossil fuel industries would have a cow, if capacities were used in renewable numbers. Large wind farms and large solar generating stations monitor actual output. Homes do not. The only way to get that data would be to access the inverter electronics, and I can testify that this is NOT done. Only the latest inverters allow owners to access total numbers.

As it is, your buddies in the fossil fuel generating industry are very happy that residential solar is not included, because it makes it appear like solar only generates 1-2% of the energy of the US. The number is probably closer to 5%. There are 127 million households in the US, and over 3 million have residential solar.

Residential wind turbines are not counted in the electricity totals either.

For heating - Residential solar thermal systems are not counted (hot water and air heating). Residential geothermal systems (cooling and heating) are not counted. Residential passive solar systems are not counted. Etc, etc...

Sorry, but I don't believe you.
 
Sorry, but I don't believe you.

I decided to contact EIA, and found out that form EIA-861 is filled out annually by each Utility. Note the last question under Photovoltaic. "If Available, Enter the Electric Energy Sold Back to the Utility". "If Available" - my point is that this is seldom, if ever, available. There is one meter, and it measures total electric usage minus renewable generation. It doesn't measure the exact contribution of the PV system.

Electric PowerIndustry Report.jpg

Because of the "If Available" clause, Utilities have the option to leave this blank, and that's probably what most do... In other words - the philosophy that "no information is better than wrong information"...
 
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