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Thread: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    A good article talking about what I have been advocating for several years.

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Case View Post
    CO2 is up almost 45% since 1850 so according to you, temperature should
    be up about 1.3°C. It's not, so when is this going to begin to happen?
    That is an interesting point, If 2XCO2 caused an ECS of 3C after all the perturbation were equalized,
    then the formula would X times ln(2)=3C, so 3C/ln(2) would equal X, or 4.32.
    Since Hansen says 60% of ECS should be seen between 20 to 50 years, (37.5 Years),
    we should at least see (4.32 X ln(341/280)X .6= .51 C of the predicted 3C.
    If on the other hand the latency of ECS is only the 10 years found in some research,
    then the number should be 4.32 X ln(383/280)=1.35 C.

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Just wonderin'. Has AGW climate change been proven? Why do these 'scientists' of the OP and the OP believe in AGW climate change, for example?
    "Elitism is not just for the rich and powerful. Elitism is everywhere. The cry of the 'Nouveau-elite' is: You can't be racist but I can be racist. You can't be sexist but I can be sexist. You can't be fascist but I can act like a fascist and fascism only happens on the right." 01/09/19

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    That is an interesting point, If 2XCO2 caused an ECS of 3C after all the perturbation were equalized,
    then the formula would X times ln(2)=3C, so 3C/ln(2) would equal X, or 4.32.
    Since Hansen says 60% of ECS should be seen between 20 to 50 years, (37.5 Years),
    we should at least see (4.32 X ln(341/280)X .6= .51 C of the predicted 3C.
    If on the other hand the latency of ECS is only the 10 years found in some research,
    then the number should be 4.32 X ln(383/280)=1.35 C.
    Yes, the latency of CO2 is actually much shorter. The idea of the decades comes from from heating of the ocean surface water. It appears they forgot to factor in that the greenhouse spectra is fully absorbed in the water within a few microns of the surface skin, and a few microns are constantly evaporated as well. I suspect only about 20% to 25% of the IR flux adds to ocean heating as the majority of it adds to evaporation.

    I'm not sure how the dynamic math works on that, but I seem to recall over a minute of time, 60% of the penetration depth is evaporated. This equates to 22.2% of the heat flux absorbed, with 77.8% of it added to the evaporated H2O, and not warming the sea surface.

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Surface Detail View Post
    Well, it's already begun to happen! The global temperature has already risen by about 1°C since 1850. Bear in mind, though, that the temperature rise lags behind the CO2 rise due to the thermal inertia of the Earth - those oceans take a long time to warm.

    That's why we call the figure that I mentioned the equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS), i.e. the sensitivity of the climate once equilibrium has been reached. It represents the temperature that the Earth would eventually reach if the CO2 level were doubled and then kept at that value.
    You guys have been at this since 1988, and it doesn't look like
    it's happening.

    Oh yes, you said, " those oceans take a long time to warm."

    The opening sentence of the executive summary for Chapter
    Five of the IPCC's AR4 Report says:

    The oceans are warming. Over the period 1961 to 2003,
    global ocean temperature has risen by 0.10°C from the
    surface to a depth of 700 m.

    The IPCC really expects us to believe that they can measure
    0.10 not 0.11 or 0.09 degrees but 0.10 degrees over a 42 year
    period. My B.S. meter goes off scale when I read that sort of thing.
    Dr. James Hansen testified before Congress 31 years ago, and nearly all of the predictions and
    things said to be caused by "Global Warming/Climate Change" have turned out to be wrong.

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Case View Post
    You guys have been at this since 1988, and it doesn't look like
    it's happening.

    Oh yes, you said, " those oceans take a long time to warm."

    The opening sentence of the executive summary for Chapter
    Five of the IPCC's AR4 Report says:

    The oceans are warming. Over the period 1961 to 2003,
    global ocean temperature has risen by 0.10°C from the
    surface to a depth of 700 m.

    The IPCC really expects us to believe that they can measure
    0.10 not 0.11 or 0.09 degrees but 0.10 degrees over a 42 year
    period. My B.S. meter goes off scale when I read that sort of thing.
    It's all a game of statistics.

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Case View Post
    You guys have been at this since 1988, and it doesn't look like
    it's happening.

    Oh yes, you said, " those oceans take a long time to warm."

    The opening sentence of the executive summary for Chapter
    Five of the IPCC's AR4 Report says:

    The oceans are warming. Over the period 1961 to 2003,
    global ocean temperature has risen by 0.10°C from the
    surface to a depth of 700 m.

    The IPCC really expects us to believe that they can measure
    0.10 not 0.11 or 0.09 degrees but 0.10 degrees over a 42 year
    period. My B.S. meter goes off scale when I read that sort of thing.
    Once again, the global surface temperature has indeed risen by about 1°C since pre-industrial times. And the oceans do indeed take a long time to warm. I don't think anyone disputes that. And no, personal incredulity is not a valid form of argument

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Climate Politics
    An Open Letter to the Editor of The Times (UK)

    By Mike Jonas In your editorial “The Political Climate” in The Times, 20 May 2019, you discussed the Australian election result in the context of climate. The commentary was all one way – damning of Scott Morrison and the winning Liberal-National coalition: …Australia has just endured its hottest ever summer and storms and dengue fever…
    "Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one." --Marcus Aurelius

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Just wonderin'. Has AGW climate change been proven? Why do these 'scientists' of the OP and the OP believe in AGW climate change, for example?
    It is rather an open ended question.
    Yes adding CO2 to the atmosphere can cause some warming, that actual amount has not repeatable scientific test to validate the level.
    Test conducted in the early 1900's by Angstrom, showed that the energy passing though a column of CO2 did not change with changes in the level of CO2,
    but that could be a result of technical limitations.
    Modern spectrum analysis, says that CO2 in a container would quickly become saturated, and transparent to the energy passing through.
    Even if CO2 did what is claimed, it would be of no concern, as the largest amount of the predicted warming is not from the CO2 itself, but from the amplified feedbacks,
    and there is even less scientific support for those feedbacks existing.

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    Re: Deniers are about to lose the Argument

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    It is rather an open ended question.
    Yes adding CO2 to the atmosphere can cause some warming, that actual amount has not repeatable scientific test to validate the level.
    Test conducted in the early 1900's by Angstrom, showed that the energy passing though a column of CO2 did not change with changes in the level of CO2,
    but that could be a result of technical limitations.
    Modern spectrum analysis, says that CO2 in a container would quickly become saturated, and transparent to the energy passing through.
    Even if CO2 did what is claimed, it would be of no concern, as the largest amount of the predicted warming is not from the CO2 itself, but from the amplified feedbacks,
    and there is even less scientific support for those feedbacks existing.
    Why do 'environmentalists' stake the entirety of their monitoring/slowing down climate change on monitoring CO2 in the 'sphere when AGW climate change is unverified? I see no science, there...When CO2 is less than 5% of all greenhouse gases in the 'sphere? When greenhouse gases reside in places other than the 'sphere?

    This makes me wonder if 'environmentalists' are alarmed by climate change.
    Last edited by cabse5; 05-26-19 at 10:14 AM.
    "Elitism is not just for the rich and powerful. Elitism is everywhere. The cry of the 'Nouveau-elite' is: You can't be racist but I can be racist. You can't be sexist but I can be sexist. You can't be fascist but I can act like a fascist and fascism only happens on the right." 01/09/19

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