• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

March 2019 is the second hottest March on Record

longview said:
Why would getting back to 1980's levels be part of the equation I described?
The mentioned superimposed warming is still there!
Click to expand...

Maybe he likes 80's music more?
 
longview said:
Why would getting back to 1980's levels be part of the equation I described?
The mentioned superimposed warming is still there!
Click to expand...

You guys are always the ones stating that CO2 isn't responsible for most of the warming. The warming has followed CO2 more closely than any other variable. With atmospheric CO2 continuing to rise, and deniers such as yourself doing nothing about it, more warming is inevitable. And yet, NONSENSE posts about cooling continue to be inputted by deniers on this forum.
 
Media_Truth said:
You guys are always the ones stating that CO2 isn't responsible for most of the warming. The warming has followed CO2 more closely than any other variable. With atmospheric CO2 continuing to rise, and deniers such as yourself doing nothing about it, more warming is inevitable. And yet, NONSENSE posts about cooling continue to be inputted by deniers on this forum.
Click to expand...

I know of not a single poster here that 'denies' that the climate changes. What is very much in question is the automatically assumed human culpability for that.
 
Media_Truth said:
You guys are always the ones stating that CO2 isn't responsible for most of the warming. The warming has followed CO2 more closely than any other variable. With atmospheric CO2 continuing to rise, and deniers such as yourself doing nothing about it, more warming is inevitable. And yet, NONSENSE posts about cooling continue to be inputted by deniers on this forum.
Click to expand...

You will need to cite where I said co2 was not responsible much of the observed warming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
longview said:
You will need to cite where I said co2 was not responsible much of the observed warming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

"MOST" - read my post. If you truly believe that CO2 is responsible for MOST of the warming, simply state it here, and I will gladly retract my statement.
 
Media_Truth said:
"MOST" - read my post. If you truly believe that CO2 is responsible for MOST of the warming, simply state it here, and I will gladly retract my statement.
Click to expand...
I have no issues with that!
If the CO2 forcing is what is claimed at 3.71 Wm-2 for 2XCO2, then the CO2 contribution to the observed .9 C of warming is .61 C.
Last time I checked .61 C is more than 50% of .9 C!
That still does not mean that I view warming from CO2 with concern!
Without the large positive feedbacks required to raise the 1.1 C of forcing warming to 3 C of ECS, AGW will not amount to anything of concern.
 
longview said:
I have no issues with that!
If the CO2 forcing is what is claimed at 3.71 Wm-2 for 2XCO2, then the CO2 contribution to the observed .9 C of warming is .61 C.
Last time I checked .61 C is more than 50% of .9 C!
That still does not mean that I view warming from CO2 with concern!
Without the large positive feedbacks required to raise the 1.1 C of forcing warming to 3 C of ECS, AGW will not amount to anything of concern.
Click to expand...

Large positive feedbacks are inevitable. The oceans are the largest heat sinks on the planets. Melting ice is exposing permafrost which is releasing methane - an even more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. These feedbacks can in NO WAY be negative feedbacks.
 
Media_Truth said:
Large positive feedbacks are inevitable. The oceans are the largest heat sinks on the planets. Melting ice is exposing permafrost which is releasing methane - an even more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. These feedbacks can in NO WAY be negative feedbacks.
Click to expand...
You say inevitable, like it is a matter of faith, yet the feedbacks you speak of have been happening
almost continuously for the last 12,000 years, and so are part and parcel of the observed data.
Also feedbacks can be both positive and negative, increases in water vapor can lead to increased cloud cover,
that reflects the higher energy light before it ever gets to the surface.
Think about it for a second, if it is overcast for several days in a row, does the average temperature increase or decrease?
The nights do not get as cold, but the days also do not get as warm!
As for methane, the American Chemical Society, says that a change in methane levels from
375 ppb to 675 ppb, resulted in forcing of ≈ 0.3 W·m–2.
Climate Sensitivity - American Chemical Society
For the increase of CH4 from about 375 to about 675 ppb, ΔFCH4 ≈ 0.3 W·m–2
Click to expand...
If methane is indeed 28 times a more potent a greenhouse gas as CO2, then the increase of CH4
from 1800 to now of 727 ppb to 1866.4 ppb, (2.56 times)should be the same as increasing CO2
from 280 ppm to (2.56 X 28 X 280 ppm)=20,070 ppm, but that would simply not fit with the observed warming,
but let's do the math anyway to see how ridiculous it looks!
If CH4's CO2-eq, increased from 280 ppm to 20,070ppm, then the forcing would be
(5.35 X ln (20070/280)X .3)=6.85 C, since we have only seen .9 C of total warming, the 6.85 C is likely off the table
for consideration!
Also CH4 breaks down into CO2 fairly quickly,
Understanding Global Warming Potentials | Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Emissions | US EPA
CH4 emitted today lasts about a decade on average, which is much less time than CO2.
Click to expand...
so the increase in CH4 from 727ppb to 1866 ppb, will within a decade look like a CO2 increase of about 1.1 ppm.
 
longview said:
You say inevitable, like it is a matter of faith, yet the feedbacks you speak of have been happening
almost continuously for the last 12,000 years, and so are part and parcel of the observed data.
Also feedbacks can be both positive and negative, increases in water vapor can lead to increased cloud cover,
that reflects the higher energy light before it ever gets to the surface.
Think about it for a second, if it is overcast for several days in a row, does the average temperature increase or decrease?
The nights do not get as cold, but the days also do not get as warm!
As for methane, the American Chemical Society, says that a change in methane levels from
375 ppb to 675 ppb, resulted in forcing of ≈ 0.3 W·m–2.
Climate Sensitivity - American Chemical Society

If methane is indeed 28 times a more potent a greenhouse gas as CO2, then the increase of CH4
from 1800 to now of 727 ppb to 1866.4 ppb, (2.56 times)should be the same as increasing CO2
from 280 ppm to (2.56 X 28 X 280 ppm)=20,070 ppm, but that would simply not fit with the observed warming,
but let's do the math anyway to see how ridiculous it looks!
If CH4's CO2-eq, increased from 280 ppm to 20,070ppm, then the forcing would be
(5.35 X ln (20070/280)X .3)=6.85 C, since we have only seen .9 C of total warming, the 6.85 C is likely off the table
for consideration!
Also CH4 breaks down into CO2 fairly quickly,
Understanding Global Warming Potentials | Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Emissions | US EPA

so the increase in CH4 from 727ppb to 1866 ppb, will within a decade look like a CO2 increase of about 1.1 ppm.
Click to expand...

Know what else the ACS says?

Global Climate Change - American Chemical Society

The American Chemical Society (ACS) acknowledges that climate change is real, is serious and has been influenced by anthropogenic activity. Unmitigated climate change will lead to increases in extreme weather events and will cause significant sea level rise, causing property damage and population displacement. It also will continue to degrade ecosystems and natural resources, affecting food and water availability and human health, further burdening economies and societies. Continued uncontrolled GHG emissions will accelerate and compound the effects and risks of climate change well into the future.
Click to expand...
 
Media_Truth said:
Large positive feedbacks are inevitable. The oceans are the largest heat sinks on the planets. Melting ice is exposing permafrost which is releasing methane - an even more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. These feedbacks can in NO WAY be negative feedbacks.
Click to expand...

Your wording is in error.

CH4 is not a more "potent" greenhouse gas than CO2. Yes, it has a greater RE and GWP, but those numbers are suited for the agenda. Not reality.

We have been over this before. I find it pathetic that people still don't understand.

CO2 is about five times more potent than CH4 in the same quantity. The only reason why RE and GWP are higher numbers, is because of the instantaneous slope they are on the forcing curve. It's a nonlinear response, and ignorant people get the wrong idea.

You truly don't understand these sciences when you say CH4 is more potent just because the RE and GWP are greater.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom