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Power your Full-Sized Pickup Truck from the Sun

longview said:
It is a numbers game, it would likely take 20 to 30 years to change out enough fuel vehicles with electrics
to have an impact, and the infrastructure is no where near ready to support a high level of electric vehicles.
On the other side of the coin, when the greater profits are from the refineries making their own carbon neutral fuels,
the drop in emission could happen in a few months.
Click to expand...

Sounds great. Lets do both.
 
Deuce said:
Sounds great. Lets do both.
Click to expand...
We can, people who can live with an electric vehicle would buy them if it was the best value.
So for they appear to be only a novelty item for people with disposable income.
In reality the price of the electric should be less than the gasoline powered car.
No engine, not transmission, ect.
 
longview said:
And yet, a road trip is something that most cars are called on to do at some point.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering why you clipped all of my advantages out of your reply. I suppose it's because your trite disadvantage wouldn't stand up to them. Here's the advantages repeated ---

1. Regenerative Braking - this free energy, recaptured by electric vehicles is 100% lost with gas-powered vehicles. Financial and ecological value!
2. No point-of-source pollution. As you drive through cities with out-of-compliance EPA air quality, you are not exacerbating the problem.
3. Depending on the source of the electricity, you could be low-carbon or carbon-free.
4. Electric vehicles can get you there faster, with all-legal means - better acceleration to speed limit. It's not a lot of time in one trip, but over multiple trips, multiple days, it adds up.

I'm only discussing "driving" advantages, and I have left out the financial advantages - maintenance, etc.
 
longview said:
We can, people who can live with an electric vehicle would buy them if it was the best value.
So for they appear to be only a novelty item for people with disposable income.
In reality the price of the electric should be less than the gasoline powered car.
No engine, not transmission, ect.
Click to expand...

Until they can get the charging times down to the practicality we currently enjoy with normal cars will never be there, the public won't buy them as anything other than a virtue signalling of their moral superiority over the rest of us prolls who live in the real world

Limits of cost infrastructure and practicality will see the electric car as a novelty item affordable to only more affluent liberal elites. I suspect thats a part of the agenda
 
Media_Truth said:
I'm wondering why you clipped all of my advantages out of your reply. I suppose it's because your trite disadvantage wouldn't stand up to them. Here's the advantages repeated ---

1. Regenerative Braking - this free energy, recaptured by electric vehicles is 100% lost with gas-powered vehicles. Financial and ecological value!
2. No point-of-source pollution. As you drive through cities with out-of-compliance EPA air quality, you are not exacerbating the problem.
3. Depending on the source of the electricity, you could be low-carbon or carbon-free.
4. Electric vehicles can get you there faster, with all-legal means - better acceleration to speed limit. It's not a lot of time in one trip, but over multiple trips, multiple days, it adds up.

I'm only discussing "driving" advantages, and I have left out the financial advantages - maintenance, etc.
Click to expand...

1. How often do you hit your brakes on a road trip, a tiny percentage of the time.
2. You seem to think we have a CO2 problem, I do not.
3. Again, You seem to think we have a CO2 problem, I do not.
4. Higher acceleration is much more an advantage in town, and any time saved would be eaten by longer recharge times.

I clipped them because the point were irrelevant to the discussion.

I remember a conversation with a coworker who bought an early Prius, because his Girlfriend lived about 200 miles away,
only to find out the high mileage numbers were for in town driving, on the road the car got much the same mileage
as any other small car.
 
flogger said:
Until they can get the charging times down to the practicality we currently enjoy with normal cars will never be there, the public won't buy them as anything other than a virtue signalling of their moral superiority over the rest of us prolls who live in the real world

Limits of cost infrastructure and practicality will see the electric car as a novelty item affordable to only more affluent liberal elites. I suspect thats a part of the agenda
Click to expand...
If the sales price reflected the possibly much simpler design, and was below the cost of the fuel cars,
people would buy them because it would meet their needs for less money.
Even if the price were the same, the lower operation cost would drive some to buy.
Where we are at now the people showing their moral superiority by being willing to pay a higher price,
are preventing the price from coming down to the point of wide acceptance.
The Truck described in this thread is said to be in the mid $80 K range, it looks like a neat truck, but not at $85K.
 
longview said:
1. How often do you hit your brakes on a road trip, a tiny percentage of the time.
Click to expand...
There are entities called traffic jams, construction delays, exit ramps and rest areas. We experience them quite often, even with highway driving. As a matter of fact, these traffic jams and construction delays are quite common, and are becoming more the rule than the exception.
longview said:
2. You seem to think we have a CO2 problem, I do not.
Click to expand...
Number 2 was not about CO2. It was about point-of-source pollution - NOX and Ozone - highways go between on large city and another, and pass through these large cities with their EPA Out-of-Compliance air quality. Electric vehicles do not contribute to point-of-source pollution.
longview;10701143773. said:
Again, You seem to think we have a CO2 problem, I do not.
4. Higher acceleration is much more an advantage in town, and any time saved would be eaten by longer recharge times.

I clipped them because the point were irrelevant to the discussion.

I remember a conversation with a coworker who bought an early Prius, because his Girlfriend lived about 200 miles away,
only to find out the high mileage numbers were for in town driving, on the road the car got much the same mileage
as any other small car.
Click to expand...

The recharge times are not the major issue you make them out to be. Most drivers take breaks for meals, overnight stays, and other reasons. It's a Nothingburger!!!
 
Media_Truth said:
There are entities called traffic jams, construction delays, exit ramps and rest areas. We experience them quite often, even with highway driving. As a matter of fact, these traffic jams and construction delays are quite common, and are becoming more the rule than the exception.

Number 2 was not about CO2. It was about point-of-source pollution - NOX and Ozone - highways go between on large city and another, and pass through these large cities with their EPA Out-of-Compliance air quality. Electric vehicles do not contribute to point-of-source pollution.


The recharge times are not the major issue you make them out to be. Most drivers take breaks for meals, overnight stays, and other reasons. It's a Nothingburger!!!
Click to expand...

I am glad you like you electric car, and happy it works for you, but that choice may not be the choice others make.
like I said, if the price were actually equal or lower than a fuel vehicle, people would be willing to put up with the change.
Since the price is quite a bit higher, why should they bother?
 
longview said:
I am glad you like you electric car, and happy it works for you, but that choice may not be the choice others make.
like I said, if the price were actually equal or lower than a fuel vehicle, people would be willing to put up with the change.
Since the price is quite a bit higher, why should they bother?
Click to expand...

I think you're confused. My new 2018 Chevy Volt was $22K, after rebates. That's less than just about every new car on the market, other than a few rattletraps. I will save a fortune by driving it, both in fuel and maintenance costs. And I will have A LOT MORE FUN!
 
longview said:
I am glad you like you electric car, and happy it works for you, but that choice may not be the choice others make.
like I said, if the price were actually equal or lower than a fuel vehicle, people would be willing to put up with the change.
Since the price is quite a bit higher, why should they bother?
Click to expand...

Here's the problem for you Oil Industry lovers. The most important factor of all - customer satisfaction!!!

Electric Car Owner Satisfaction -- 3 Surveys −

EV-Satisfaction_evobsessionDOTcom.png

And here is the 2nd problem for you Oil Industry lovers. All these people have once driven gas-powered cars. You can't say the same about the reverse. Word will get out!!!
 
And look at Norway - they love 'em in the fjords!

EV-Satisfaction-Norway.jpg
 
Once people start driving EVs, they will quickly abandon gas vehicles, because of the experience. Just like Smart Phones. I guess there's people who still have flip-top cellular phones. Gas cars - flip-top phones ---> that's a great comparison!
 
Media_Truth said:
Here's the problem for you Oil Industry lovers. The most important factor of all - customer satisfaction!!!

Electric Car Owner Satisfaction -- 3 Surveys −

View attachment 67257006

And here is the 2nd problem for you Oil Industry lovers. All these people have once driven gas-powered cars. You can't say the same about the reverse. Word will get out!!!
Click to expand...

I would love to convert my truck to electric. I say convert since I do not want a new truck. I am happy with the looks and performance of my 1960 Chevy Apache 1 ton flatbed. And I know that a real conversion to electric would outperform my small block chevy.

Heres the problem: I do not have that kind of money. I might never have that kind of money before I die. And I certainly would not have the money for a new 1 ton electric truck when they come out. SO while I seriously want that type of technology, it will probably always be out of my reach. So I will continue to use my truck until fuel prices makes it obsolete.

Now before you go all "Oil Industry lovers" I will tell you right now that is not me. Im already sold on electric motors and their crazy torque at any speed. Its just that I doubt that I will ever be able to afford it. If the buy in for conversation was just the motor, then no problem I could save up for that. But its the batteries that kill any hope of making my dream conversion.
 
Media_Truth said:
Once people start driving EVs, they will quickly abandon gas vehicles, because of the experience. Just like Smart Phones. I guess there's people who still have flip-top cellular phones. Gas cars - flip-top phones ---> that's a great comparison!
Click to expand...

I've driven a Ford EVO, a recent Prius, a Chevy Volt and a Tesla. I wasn't comfortable driving any of them. I couldn't hear the engine noise that I'm accustomed to and consider an assist for subconscious judgments when driving. Road feel wasn't there, or exaggerated from poor suspension design. Handling, either extreme understeer or mild oversteer. The top of the line Tesla was over hyped. It was not responsive for quick maneuvering, decent for a short cruise, sluggish for highway entrance merges, with poor braking that caused some swerve. I'm far more comfortable in my 8 year old Caddy for around town driving. Horrible mileage, but it is a 386hp 6 cylinder engine with AWD, goes through anything, terrific handling, quality sports suspension. What I want in a car that needs to be driven. My 39 Willys Coupe with its 63 Corvette engine is an AWD hot rod, for my vacation home driving can't be matched for fun driving by any EV. If I replace the Caddy, I'll likely buy a Bentley Coupe. I recently test drove one, a true driver's car. My wife drives a Subaru, loves it, and has also test driven the same EV's with a thumbs down response. Our electric grid is already stressed. I don't want to be the one with a vehicle that can't be depended upon during a summer blackout, or a winter loss of power.

Clam shell phones are making a comeback. People prefer the quality sound, no one is interested in stealing them, far less expensive, and people seem happier without 24/7 net connections. The kids in the family are 50/50 for desiring smart phones compared to clamshells. They find the smart phones annoying and intrusive, save their net needs for other devices easier on the eyes. An interesting shift that is effecting new smart phone sales. The more athletic kids are more concerned with the physical intrusiveness of smart phones. For them, bigger is not better. Likely the next innovation for phones will be clam shells that can project an image for viewing and manipulation. I've already seen some prototypes. No concern for cracked screens.

Old becomes new, new gets old, all so confusing.
 
OldFatGuy said:
I've driven a Ford EVO, a recent Prius, a Chevy Volt and a Tesla. I wasn't comfortable driving any of them. I couldn't hear the engine noise that I'm accustomed to and consider an assist for subconscious judgments when driving. Road feel wasn't there, or exaggerated from poor suspension design. Handling, either extreme understeer or mild oversteer. The top of the line Tesla was over hyped. It was not responsive for quick maneuvering, decent for a short cruise, sluggish for highway entrance merges, with poor braking that caused some swerve. I'm far more comfortable in my 8 year old Caddy for around town driving. Horrible mileage, but it is a 386hp 6 cylinder engine with AWD, goes through anything, terrific handling, quality sports suspension. What I want in a car that needs to be driven. My 39 Willys Coupe with its 63 Corvette engine is an AWD hot rod, for my vacation home driving can't be matched for fun driving by any EV. If I replace the Caddy, I'll likely buy a Bentley Coupe. I recently test drove one, a true driver's car. My wife drives a Subaru, loves it, and has also test driven the same EV's with a thumbs down response. Our electric grid is already stressed. I don't want to be the one with a vehicle that can't be depended upon during a summer blackout, or a winter loss of power.

Clam shell phones are making a comeback. People prefer the quality sound, no one is interested in stealing them, far less expensive, and people seem happier without 24/7 net connections. The kids in the family are 50/50 for desiring smart phones compared to clamshells. They find the smart phones annoying and intrusive, save their net needs for other devices easier on the eyes. An interesting shift that is effecting new smart phone sales. The more athletic kids are more concerned with the physical intrusiveness of smart phones. For them, bigger is not better. Likely the next innovation for phones will be clam shells that can project an image for viewing and manipulation. I've already seen some prototypes. No concern for cracked screens.

Old becomes new, new gets old, all so confusing.
Click to expand...

You're part of the 1%... I power my EV from my solar panels (and wind turbine).

SolarWind_Chevy_Volt_2_Pics.jpg
 
OldFatGuy said:
I've driven a Ford EVO, a recent Prius, a Chevy Volt and a Tesla. I wasn't comfortable driving any of them. I couldn't hear the engine noise that I'm accustomed to and consider an assist for subconscious judgments when driving. Road feel wasn't there, or exaggerated from poor suspension design. Handling, either extreme understeer or mild oversteer. The top of the line Tesla was over hyped. It was not responsive for quick maneuvering, decent for a short cruise, sluggish for highway entrance merges, with poor braking that caused some swerve. I'm far more comfortable in my 8 year old Caddy for around town driving. Horrible mileage, but it is a 386hp 6 cylinder engine with AWD, goes through anything, terrific handling, quality sports suspension. What I want in a car that needs to be driven. My 39 Willys Coupe with its 63 Corvette engine is an AWD hot rod, for my vacation home driving can't be matched for fun driving by any EV. If I replace the Caddy, I'll likely buy a Bentley Coupe. I recently test drove one, a true driver's car. My wife drives a Subaru, loves it, and has also test driven the same EV's with a thumbs down response. Our electric grid is already stressed. I don't want to be the one with a vehicle that can't be depended upon during a summer blackout, or a winter loss of power.

Clam shell phones are making a comeback. People prefer the quality sound, no one is interested in stealing them, far less expensive, and people seem happier without 24/7 net connections. The kids in the family are 50/50 for desiring smart phones compared to clamshells. They find the smart phones annoying and intrusive, save their net needs for other devices easier on the eyes. An interesting shift that is effecting new smart phone sales. The more athletic kids are more concerned with the physical intrusiveness of smart phones. For them, bigger is not better. Likely the next innovation for phones will be clam shells that can project an image for viewing and manipulation. I've already seen some prototypes. No concern for cracked screens.

Old becomes new, new gets old, all so confusing.
Click to expand...

I reread this post, and I question whether you really drove those cars. Nobody that truly drove a Volt or a Tesla would say this ---
"sluggish for highway entrance merges," 0-60 MPH in 3 seconds is not sluggish.
 
Media_Truth said:
I reread this post, and I question whether you really drove those cars. Nobody that truly drove a Volt or a Tesla would say this ---
"sluggish for highway entrance merges," 0-60 MPH in 3 seconds is not sluggish.
Click to expand...

Both sluggish, not up to the hype. Took me 12 seconds to hit 60 in the Tesla. Frankly, the Volt was a trash car, not comfortable and not safe at all, either. I've heard similar from many owners. Some blamed governors and auto braking systems kicking in, both software issues. Personally, I believe it is both torque timing and suspension issues. The feel isn't there. My son recently drove an Audi EV hybrid, found the merge speed more than adequate. Now you've stumbled on someone who found them sluggish. Perception is everything and mileage varies. Cars are not just transportation, they are an art unto themselves. Ask the fellow who mortgaged his house for a restored Plymouth Road Runner that did 0-60 in 13.5 seconds, but felt like a speed demon. Look, in NYC driving, during rush hour in Midtown or on the BQE, hitting 4mph in a Lamborghini is a triumph.

Unfortunately, shifting from fossil fuel engines to electric won't make that much of polluting or atmospheric carbon difference. The major culprits still being industrial output, contemporary farming, air and ship transport, etc. I still have working cup windmills supplying most of my power needs at my vacation home with exception of deep winter when burning wood stoves are essential, and extremely efficient (in combination with the great room fireplace, heating the downstairs well enough to open a window or two during the day), the balance from a geothermal well, both installed more than 30 years ago. Won't work in the city. There are a few homes heated and air-conditioned with geo thermal wells, but rare and extremely expensive for Manhattan bedrock drilling. A nice idea that also doesn't function well in the former wetlands of the outer boroughs, with their significant underground streams and rivers. Nimby is the word on noise producing windmills. Planting winter grasses produces more carbon and methane than running the two small diesel tractors we have, both modified to burn almost any lipid or alcohol based fuel, even vodka. I'm all for reducing, even eliminating pollution when possible, and when not possible, still a pipe dream for much of current human existence. Doesn't mean we surrender the battle, just facing reality. The most extensively burned source of fuel for impoverished peoples is still human nightsoil, dried and not used for fertilizer, far cheaper than any lipids, crop fibers, coal or wood. Expensive solar cells and windmills are the not answers for the poor. They are in the majority of this world we live in.
 
Media_Truth said:
I think you're confused. My new 2018 Chevy Volt was $22K, after rebates. That's less than just about every new car on the market, other than a few rattletraps. I will save a fortune by driving it, both in fuel and maintenance costs. And I will have A LOT MORE FUN!
Click to expand...
Cool! but the Truck is still listed at $85K which is higher than most trucks.
 
Media_Truth said:
Here's the problem for you Oil Industry lovers. The most important factor of all - customer satisfaction!!!

Electric Car Owner Satisfaction -- 3 Surveys −

View attachment 67257006

And here is the 2nd problem for you Oil Industry lovers. All these people have once driven gas-powered cars. You can't say the same about the reverse. Word will get out!!!
Click to expand...

I have nothing against electric cars, and no love for the oil companies, but our infrastructure is not currently prepared
for a mass transition to electric vehicles, and there would be some lifestyle changes moving form gas to electric.
If your goal is a sustainable future and cutting total human emissions, electric vehicles is likely not the best path there.
 
longview said:
I have nothing against electric cars, and no love for the oil companies, but our infrastructure is not currently prepared
for a mass transition to electric vehicles, and there would be some lifestyle changes moving form gas to electric.
If your goal is a sustainable future and cutting total human emissions, electric vehicles is likely not the best path there.
Click to expand...

Easily adjustable infrastructure, as countries like Norway have demonstrated. Your city of Houston can close all those smelly refineries...
 
Media_Truth said:
Easily adjustable infrastructure, as countries like Norway have demonstrated. Your city of Houston can close all those smelly refineries...
Click to expand...
The refineries will not smell if they are not processing oil!
the smells are mostly from not so nice things that are part of organic oil.
 
longview said:
The refineries will not smell if they are not processing oil!
the smells are mostly from not so nice things that are part of organic oil.
Click to expand...

There is a long list of hazardous wastes associated with the refining process, including a lot of radioactive wastes... we have those same sick smells in North Denver...
 
longview said:
Cool! but the Truck is still listed at $85K which is higher than most trucks.
Click to expand...

The Toyota Tacoma price ranges from $27K to $46K. The Rivian, with the small battery system (230-mile range), comes in at $60K. The Federal Tax credit on the Rivian is $7500. My state of Colorado gives an additional $5K tax credit. Now you're down to $47,500, right in the ballpark of the Tacoma.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Both sluggish, not up to the hype. Took me 12 seconds to hit 60 in the Tesla. Frankly, the Volt was a trash car, not comfortable and not safe at all, either. I've heard similar from many owners. Some blamed governors and auto braking systems kicking in, both software issues. Personally, I believe it is both torque timing and suspension issues. The feel isn't there. My son recently drove an Audi EV hybrid, found the merge speed more than adequate. Now you've stumbled on someone who found them sluggish. Perception is everything and mileage varies. Cars are not just transportation, they are an art unto themselves. Ask the fellow who mortgaged his house for a restored Plymouth Road Runner that did 0-60 in 13.5 seconds, but felt like a speed demon. Look, in NYC driving, during rush hour in Midtown or on the BQE, hitting 4mph in a Lamborghini is a triumph.

Unfortunately, shifting from fossil fuel engines to electric won't make that much of polluting or atmospheric carbon difference. The major culprits still being industrial output, contemporary farming, air and ship transport, etc. I still have working cup windmills supplying most of my power needs at my vacation home with exception of deep winter when burning wood stoves are essential, and extremely efficient (in combination with the great room fireplace, heating the downstairs well enough to open a window or two during the day), the balance from a geothermal well, both installed more than 30 years ago. Won't work in the city. There are a few homes heated and air-conditioned with geo thermal wells, but rare and extremely expensive for Manhattan bedrock drilling. A nice idea that also doesn't function well in the former wetlands of the outer boroughs, with their significant underground streams and rivers. Nimby is the word on noise producing windmills. Planting winter grasses produces more carbon and methane than running the two small diesel tractors we have, both modified to burn almost any lipid or alcohol based fuel, even vodka. I'm all for reducing, even eliminating pollution when possible, and when not possible, still a pipe dream for much of current human existence. Doesn't mean we surrender the battle, just facing reality. The most extensively burned source of fuel for impoverished peoples is still human nightsoil, dried and not used for fertilizer, far cheaper than any lipids, crop fibers, coal or wood. Expensive solar cells and windmills are the not answers for the poor. They are in the majority of this world we live in.
Click to expand...

This post is all over the map, mostly off-topic. Your analysis of electric vehicles seems extremely dishonest. Not sure why you would have such a hard-on against them, but there is definitely some alternative agenda at work. I think you're lying out your teeth.
 
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