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NOAA - Arctic Report Card -warming temperatures and melting ice

Jack Hays said:
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[h=1]NASA: Global Warming Promotes Arctic Sea Ice Growth[/h][FONT="][FONT=inherit]Guest essay by Eric Worrall According to NASA, the increased rate of thickening of sea ice in the Arctic is due to Global Warming. Wintertime Arctic Sea Ice Growth Slows Long-term Decline: NASA Dec. 7, 2018 New NASA research has found that increases in the rate at which Arctic sea ice grows in the winter…[/FONT]
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[URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/12/11/nasa-global-warming-promotes-arctic-sea-ice-growth/"]7 days ago December 11, 2018[/URL] in NASA.
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Yep.

Warming of the oceans actually cause more precipitation, hence more ice. It's the aerosols that melt the ice faster than the increased precipitation can restore it.
 
Media_Truth said:
Does Jack know how to represent an entire article, or is Jack just doing his usual cherry-picking? From Jack's linkie-winkie...

This does not mean that the ice cover is recovering, though. Just delaying its demise.

“This increase in the amount of sea ice growing in winter doesn’t overcome the large increase in melting we’ve observed in recent decades,” said Alek Petty, a sea ice scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and lead author of the study. “Overall, thickness is decreasing. Arctic sea ice is still very much in decline across all seasons and is projected to continue its decline over the coming decades. ”
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Did it ever occur to you that it is growing thinker and shrinking quicker, both, at differing times of year?
 
DaveFagan said:
They know millions of things that are going on, but collating the scale of the data is the problem. I view the Earth as a living organism, just like us, except on a scale and timeline that we have difficulty comprehending. The Earth strives for wet and green and tolerates its' parasites. We are one of the parasites. The human ego has some resistance to absorbing that fact. The Planet's harmonius parasites maintain a symbiotic relationship with the Planet, but contemproary humans are destructive. Symbiosis is out the window and hubris reigns supreme. The Planet will respond and cleanse the problem. Probably violently for humans but just volcanic and Earth shaking for the Planet.
/
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LOL So we should just continue to behave destructively because the Earth does not care? That is how you think we should use our incredible intelligence?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Yep.

Warming of the oceans actually cause more precipitation, hence more ice. It's the aerosols that melt the ice faster than the increased precipitation can restore it.
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LOL So the "aerosols" are the flame under the pot in the pic? Are you sure the jet contrails have not messed with you mind?
 
Media_Truth said:
You disagree with the word "unprecedented" that the NOAA uses? Please provide a reputable Scientific source that backs up your anti-NOAA stance.
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But you didn't read the report. You read what the pundits at NPR said. Here are the places "unprecedented" is used in the report:

A reference (page 11):

Kim, B. -M., J. -Y. Hong, S. -Y. Jun, X. Zhang, H. Kwon, S. -J. Kim, J. -H. Kim, S. -W. Kim, and H. -K. Kim, 2017: Major cause of unprecedented Arctic warming in January 2016: Critical role of Atlantic windstorm. Sci. Rep., 7, 40051, doi: 10.1038/srep40051.

Speaking of the Bearing Sea (page 40):

This redistribution of the seasonal variability of chlorophyll biomass is of particular interest because this region experienced unprecedented declines in sea ice over the winter of 2018

<snip>

In this particular instance, it is important to note that we do not observe simple overall increases in chlorophyll biomass with the unprecedented declines in Bering Sea ice in 2018
 
iguanaman said:
LOL So the "aerosols" are the flame under the pot in the pic? Are you sure the jet contrails have not messed with you mind?
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Nope. I'm interjecting another variable.

The majority of the climate scientists will agree, probably with a 99.9% consensus, that warmer waters make more precipitation to make more ice.

Scientists will also agree that the heat these ice sheets see is greater, so they are not only being created faster, but they are melting faster too.

I am simply stating a fact of undeniable science, that the change of albedo of ice from aerosols has increased the melt rate faster than anything else.
 
Media_Truth said:
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has just released their Annual Report. Is this another one of those groups that the Deniers contend are behind the Science Conspiracy?

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/12/6761...scading-effects-of-warming-ocean-temperatures

The Arctic has experienced the "most unprecedented transition in history" in terms of warming temperatures and melting ice, and those changes may be the cause of extreme weather around the globe, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's 2018 Arctic Report Card.
...
According to NOAA, the Arctic is warming at twice the rate of the rest of the globe, which is melting some of the region's oldest ice.
...
Scientists observed record low sea-ice levels in the Bering Sea, off western Alaska, during the winter when ice is supposed to accumulate, according to the report. Instead, the Bering Sea lost a section of ice the size of Idaho.
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NOAA is publishing crap again. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. There is no regular ice off western Alaska.
 
Into the Night said:
NOAA is publishing crap again. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. There is no regular ice off western Alaska.
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Will you please stop with silly arguments?
 
Tim the plumber said:
If you knew any history of the period you might be aware of the Roman fleet that patroled the Rhine and stopped the barbarians from crossing in mass. This was a little useless when the river froze and the boats were locked in place.
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You are correct. He denies history, mathematics, logic, and science.
 
Media_Truth said:
You disagree with the word "unprecedented" that the NOAA uses? Please provide a reputable Scientific source that backs up your anti-NOAA stance.
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Don't see why he should, since NOAA itself is not a reputable scientific source.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Nope. I'm interjecting another variable.

The majority of the climate scientists will agree, probably with a 99.9% consensus, that warmer waters make more precipitation to make more ice.

Scientists will also agree that the heat these ice sheets see is greater, so they are not only being created faster, but they are melting faster too.

I am simply stating a fact of undeniable science, that the change of albedo of ice from aerosols has increased the melt rate faster than anything else.
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What aerosols?
 
Into the Night said:
NOAA is publishing crap again. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. There is no regular ice off western Alaska.
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Right on cue. I predicted the NOAA would be bad-mouthed. Here's a video link to the summary. It appears you have trouble reading.

 
Lord of Planar said:
Yep.

Warming of the oceans actually cause more precipitation, hence more ice. It's the aerosols that melt the ice faster than the increased precipitation can restore it.
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Yep --- this was a statement in the link that you said "Yep" to...

“Overall, thickness is decreasing. Arctic sea ice is still very much in decline across all seasons and is projected to continue its decline over the coming decades. ”
 
Media_Truth said:
Yep --- this was a statement in the link that you said "Yep" to...

“Overall, thickness is decreasing. Arctic sea ice is still very much in decline across all seasons and is projected to continue its decline over the coming decades. ”
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So what ? It has happened dozens of times in the last 10K years it will happen dozens of times more in the next 10K. This is just the latest chapter in a shroud waving anti human guilt trip nothing more :roll:
 
Media_Truth said:
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has just released their Annual Report. Is this another one of those groups that the Deniers contend are behind the Science Conspiracy?

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/12/6761...scading-effects-of-warming-ocean-temperatures

The Arctic has experienced the "most unprecedented transition in history" in terms of warming temperatures and melting ice, and those changes may be the cause of extreme weather around the globe, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's 2018 Arctic Report Card.
...
According to NOAA, the Arctic is warming at twice the rate of the rest of the globe, which is melting some of the region's oldest ice.
...
Scientists observed record low sea-ice levels in the Bering Sea, off western Alaska, during the winter when ice is supposed to accumulate, according to the report. Instead, the Bering Sea lost a section of ice the size of Idaho.
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What caused the end of the Ice Age?
 
holbritter said:
What caused the end of the Ice Age?
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I presume that by "end of the Ice Age" you mean the warming of about 6 C over 10,000 years or so that led to the current interglacial period? This is generally thought to be due to small variations in solar insolation arising from cyclical changes in the Earth's orbit and axial inclination whose effects were amplified by positive feedbacks such as changes in ice cover and greenhouse gas concentration.

The current warming of about 1 C in 100 years is approximately 16 times as fast as the warming that marked the end of ice age conditions, so something very unusual indeed is happening to the Earth's climate!
 
Media_Truth said:
Right on cue. I predicted the NOAA would be bad-mouthed. Here's a video link to the summary. It appears you have trouble reading.

...deleted government propaganda...
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When NOAA runs it's weather stations, I have no problem with NOAA. When NOAA publishes crap, I have a problem with NOAA.

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.
 
Media_Truth said:
Yep --- this was a statement in the link that you said "Yep" to...

“Overall, thickness is decreasing. Arctic sea ice is still very much in decline across all seasons and is projected to continue its decline over the coming decades. ”
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Both Arctic and Antarctic ice extents are expanding. (Source: Natl Snow and Ice data center)
 
Surface Detail said:
I presume that by "end of the Ice Age" you mean the warming of about 6 C over 10,000 years or so that led to the current interglacial period? This is generally thought to be due to small variations in solar insolation arising from cyclical changes in the Earth's orbit and axial inclination whose effects were amplified by positive feedbacks such as changes in ice cover and greenhouse gas concentration.

The current warming of about 1 C in 100 years is approximately 16 times as fast as the warming that marked the end of ice age conditions, so something very unusual indeed is happening to the Earth's climate!
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No gas or vapor has any capability to warm the Earth. You are still ignoring the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.
 
Surface Detail said:
I presume that by "end of the Ice Age" you mean the warming of about 6 C over 10,000 years or so that led to the current interglacial period? This is generally thought to be due to small variations in solar insolation arising from cyclical changes in the Earth's orbit and axial inclination whose effects were amplified by positive feedbacks such as changes in ice cover and greenhouse gas concentration.

The current warming of about 1 C in 100 years is approximately 16 times as fast as the warming that marked the end of ice age conditions, so something very unusual indeed is happening to the Earth's climate!
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Since it's only happened once before, how do we know it's unusual? I agree that it is happening faster than the previous time, but there are also many more people on the earth now than before. That alone would change the variables. Since it's not comparable because of the amount of people and animals there are now, we don't know what a 'normal' speed of change there should be, only that it is faster than previously.
 
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