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Neoliberalism has conned us into fighting climate change as individuals

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Miami, FL - - probably somewhere around 2030 at the latest.
Have you seen the latest maps of Southern Louisiana?
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Southern Louisiana is subsidence, not sea level raise, although it is from Human activity,
just not global warming.
Miami, FL, Virginia Key, is the closest active station and has a high rate of rise 4.8 mm/year over 23 years,
but almost no change in the last 4 years.
https://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/map.html#plotTab
When the Miami station was operating (1932- 1980) it showed only .7 mm/year of rise.
Up and down the eastern sea board, rate have ether slowed or reversed to falling.
I strongly suspect that the property values of Miami Beach would mean a solution could be found.
A century ago, Seattle raised large sections of the downtown area up out of the tide zone,
some areas we raised up to 30 feet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Underground
 
longview said:
Southern Louisiana is subsidence, not sea level raise, although it is from Human activity,
just not global warming.
Miami, FL, Virginia Key, is the closest active station and has a high rate of rise 4.8 mm/year over 23 years,
but almost no change in the last 4 years.
https://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/map.html#plotTab
When the Miami station was operating (1932- 1980) it showed only .7 mm/year of rise.
Up and down the eastern sea board, rate have ether slowed or reversed to falling.
I strongly suspect that the property values of Miami Beach would mean a solution could be found.
A century ago, Seattle raised large sections of the downtown area up out of the tide zone,
some areas we raised up to 30 feet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Underground
Click to expand...


re Miami, you guys might find this interesting:
https://www.miamidade.gov/greenprint/pdf/climate_action_plan.pdf

The folks living on the front lines of this stuff are already dealing with it, and planning more dealing. There are things that can be done, but there is rather expensive property down there that will probably be a lost cause.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
re Miami, you guys might find this interesting:
https://www.miamidade.gov/greenprint/pdf/climate_action_plan.pdf

The folks living on the front lines of this stuff are already dealing with it, and planning more dealing. There are things that can be done, but there is rather expensive property down there that will probably be a lost cause.
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One would think that if sea level rise were such a concern for the area, that they would have a tide station closer than Key West?
I think the value of the property is why it will not be lost, they will build it up.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
re Miami, you guys might find this interesting:
https://www.miamidade.gov/greenprint/pdf/climate_action_plan.pdf

The folks living on the front lines of this stuff are already dealing with it, and planning more dealing. There are things that can be done, but there is rather expensive property down there that will probably be a lost cause.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to be a downer, but salt water intrusion still eats the Everglades and aquifers. Probably inside 100 years.
 
ecofarm said:
I don't mean to be a downer, but salt water intrusion still eats the Everglades and aquifers. Probably inside 100 years.
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That's reality, which is sometimes a downer.

I'm not that far above the current sea level myself. I saw the water 3 feet from breaching my back yard during Irma (thanks in large part to a nor'easter that sat on us for 3 days before Irma came).
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Can a plane fly when half of it is in the shop for repairs?

I don’t think they were able to move the raptors because the planes themselves were not serviceable to fly safely.

I think this article presents a compelling argument for why the planes could not move away from the storm.

Setting The Record Straight On Why Fighter Jets Can't All Simply Fly Away To Escape Storms - The Drive
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I'll accept that, and I totally understand how finicky high maintenance fighter jet aircraft always have a natural baseline of units that are down for maintenance. How about let's look at the construction of the base itself, then.
If you're housing well over ten billion dollars worth of cutting edge stock plus a few billion more in support units, plus a few billion more in support equipment, does it make sense to have a majority of these planes located in areas where the weather systems are so destructive?

I'm talking about the consequences of the Base Realignment and Closure Act, which left most red state bases untouched while even expanding others, and which turned most blue state bases into ghost towns.

I can think of a few places in blue state territory which have almost perfect weather.
Strange that we don't seem to have very many ships or aircraft out here anymore, save for San Diego.
 
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Checkerboard Strangler said:
I'll accept that, and I totally understand how finicky high maintenance fighter jet aircraft always have a natural baseline of units that are down for maintenance. How about let's look at the construction of the base itself, then.
If you're housing well over ten billion dollars worth of cutting edge stock plus a few billion more in support units, plus a few billion more in support equipment, does it make sense to have a majority of these planes located in areas where the weather systems are so destructive?

I'm talking about the consequences of the Base Realignment and Closure Act, which left most red state bases untouched while even expanding others, and which turned most blue state bases into ghost towns.

I can think of a few places in blue state territory which have almost perfect weather.
Strange that we don't seem to have very many ships or aircraft out here anymore, save for San Diego.
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but the coastal fighter wings are there to quickly scramble if something is detected coming in.
I am near Ellington, and they train all the time, usually 3 fighters in a row taking off,

When they scramble, it is a pair of fighters.
I have heard that after they pass the coast they can go supersonic, so the closer to the coast
the faster they can get to what they need to investigate.
 
Northern Light said:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-into-fighting-climate-change-as-individuals



It's time to wake up to the fact that climate change denialism is being supported and funded by the major oligarchs running the global capitalist show. Once you put this into proper perspective, it's obvious why there is reluctance to change: it means having to dismantle our current capitalist paradigm.

Now, I'm not suggesting we do away with capitalism entirely, but that the consumer model and the growth model are not sustainable within a finite system. We must shift our economic way of life toward a resource economy. The world's ecology MUST be factored into input costs and those costs must be distributed wisely. The fiduciary responsibility of the economy has to be shifted away from making obscene profits (money isn't real) and toward thinking about the future of the planet, and not just thinking about what THIS generation can get.

At the very least, we need to start having this conversation. It doesn't mean you're a communist because you start pointing out that global capitalism is destroying the planet and humanity's future. It means that you are assessing flaws in a system and those flaws need addressing.

No more waste, no more excess. We either make this transition willingly or we do it while we face our own peril. The people running this show don't care because they have their bunkers and private oases away from the rest of us who are going to feel the burn in a perhaps fatal way.

It's time to make transparent the very source of our problems: the corporate oligarchs. Sure, every day people are responsible for changing their lives, but the people planning the economy and manipulating government to keep this dinosaur model in place are the ones who should be outed. They obstruct democracy, they rape and pillage, they horde resources, and they pit humans against one another in a competitive model that is leaving future generations a dismal legacy. It must end.
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Climate, changes. AGW is the modern day Eugenics. Same "science by committee" same refusal to allow questioning, same political gain and monetary gain... Same concepts, different venue.
 
longview said:
I may be wrong, but the coastal fighter wings are there to quickly scramble if something is detected coming in.
I am near Ellington, and they train all the time, usually 3 fighters in a row taking off,

When they scramble, it is a pair of fighters.
I have heard that after they pass the coast they can go supersonic, so the closer to the coast
the faster they can get to what they need to investigate.
Click to expand...

Well I guess Los Angeles is expendable (LOL) but San Diego will always be safe.
 
longview said:
I may be wrong, but the coastal fighter wings are there to quickly scramble if something is detected coming in.
I am near Ellington, and they train all the time, usually 3 fighters in a row taking off,

When they scramble, it is a pair of fighters.
I have heard that after they pass the coast they can go supersonic, so the closer to the coast
the faster they can get to what they need to investigate.
Click to expand...

WAY back in the day, We'd have 4 ships of Phantoms, 500 feet in the pattern all day and sometimes all night. Like 100 fighters in the air at a time over the base.
 
Renae said:
Climate, changes. AGW is the modern day Eugenics. Same "science by committee" same refusal to allow questioning, same political gain and monetary gain... Same concepts, different venue.
Click to expand...

There's no monetary gain to be made by defaming capitalism, which is why denialists keep spinning their wheels. The whole climate science denial industry is built upon think tanks that are funded by the oligarchs and big companies who want to keep this reckless economic system in place for their own personal gain. They are psychopaths.

The debate over AGW is moot anyway because we are destroying the planet in hundreds of other proven ways that are still because of capitalism: strip mining, deforestation, particulate pollution, plastics, etc. The list is endless but the perpetrators are all the same.
 
Renae said:
WAY back in the day, We'd have 4 ships of Phantoms, 500 feet in the pattern all day and sometimes all night. Like 100 fighters in the air at a time over the base.
Click to expand...

A friend in college grew up on a San Antonio Air Base, and said something like that.
He said your brain could drown out the noise (most of the time)
Thankfully Ellington is most training on the weekends.
 
longview said:
A friend in college grew up on a San Antonio Air Base, and said something like that.
He said your brain could drown out the noise (most of the time)
Thankfully Ellington is most training on the weekends.
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IT IS NOT NOISE!!! That's the Sound of Freedom.
 
Northern Light said:
It's time to wake up to the fact that climate change denialism is being supported and funded by the major oligarchs running the global capitalist show. Once you put this into proper perspective, it's obvious why there is reluctance to change: it means having to dismantle our current capitalist paradigm.
Click to expand...

Of course it is. It's their reaction to wanting to harm their viability. It's human nature.

Why do you want to harm others?
 
Lord of Planar said:
I guess you are ignorant to what your preferred method would do to us.
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Can you form a coherent argument that I can actually respond to or are you just going to keep alluding to one through personal attacks?
 
Northern Light said:
Can you form a coherent argument that I can actually respond to or are you just going to keep alluding to one through personal attacks?
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Have you considered what your position would do to people's retirement accounts? I value my retirement account.
 
Renae said:
Climate, changes. AGW is the modern day Eugenics. Same "science by committee" same refusal to allow questioning, same political gain and monetary gain... Same concepts, different venue.
Click to expand...

Even assuming you're right, that does not negate the article's contention that under the threat of climate change people have been convinced to change their lifestyle, while changes which would have a greater effect on the claimed causes are not done by the corporations they would impact financially.

In short, the article is pointing out hypocrisy in Neoliberalism.
 
The Mark said:
Even assuming you're right, that does not negate the article's contention that under the threat of climate change people have been convinced to change their lifestyle, while changes which would have a greater effect on the claimed causes are not done by the corporations they would impact financially.

In short, the article is pointing out hypocrisy in Neoliberalism.
Click to expand...

Points out sheeple are stupid. I have LED lights in my home, not to save the environment, but because it made sense economically to make that change. We ALMOST bought a Prius, not to save the earth but because we liked the vehicle.
 
Renae said:
Points out sheeple are stupid. I have LED lights in my home, not to save the environment, but because it made sense economically to make that change. We ALMOST bought a Prius, not to save the earth but because we liked the vehicle.
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To me, it also points out that we need to do away with Neoliberalism.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Have you considered what your position would do to people's retirement accounts? I value my retirement account.
Click to expand...

Why would it harm your retirement account? Can you elaborate?
 
Northern Light said:
There's no monetary gain to be made by defaming capitalism,
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No, but there IS an attempt to grab power.
Northern Light said:
which is why denialists keep spinning their wheels.
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It is the Church of Global Warming (and you) that denies science and mathematics. It denies the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law, and denies statistical mathematics.
Northern Light said:
The whole climate science denial industry is built upon think tanks that are funded by the oligarchs and big companies who want to keep this reckless economic system in place for their own personal gain.
Click to expand...
Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming wants to create oligarchies to manage 'global warming', a term they can't even define. There is nothing evil about companies, big or small. They produce products and services the market desires.
Northern Light said:
They are psychopaths.
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Killing customers is bad for business. No company kills its customers and stays in business.
Northern Light said:
The debate over AGW is moot anyway because we are destroying the planet in hundreds of other proven ways
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Vague.This is a void argument. Meaningless.
Northern Light said:
that are still because of capitalism:
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Capitalism doesn't destroy anything. It is the only system that creates wealth. Socialism can only exist by stealing wealth.
Northern Light said:
strip mining,
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Does not destroy the Earth.
Northern Light said:
deforestation,
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Does not destroy the Earth. In the United States, we actually have more trees than ever before, thanks to companies like Weyerhauser. and Georgia-Pacific. They are farmers. They plant trees because they harvest them later for various products. That doesn't include the smaller private farmers.
Northern Light said:
particulate pollution,
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Soot does not destroy the Earth. It is a waste of fuel, but that is all. In the United States, soot is no longer a problem in cars, coal plants, oil fired plants, or natural gas plants. Socialist countries like China are putting out soot because there is no incentive to improve it.
Northern Light said:
plastics,
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Do not destroy the Earth.
Northern Light said:
etc. The list is endless but the perpetrators are all the same.
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Void argument again. The 'perpetrators' are all the same because YOU specifically chose oil products to denigrate (with the exception of the wood products industry).
 
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