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Recycling on it's way out?

holbritter

holbritter

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Recycling, Once Embraced by Businesses and Environmentalists, Now Under Siege
https://www.wsj.com/articles/recycl...-environmentalists-now-under-siege-1526209200

It's all about the money. Always has been. I don't believe it's ever been about 'the environment'.

If you are well off you can: eat all the fresh fruit and veggies you want; buy that expensive electric car and now recycle!

The most energy efficient anything, costs the most.

To live a healthy and eco friendly life, you need to be able to afford it. And that is sad.
 
holbritter said:
Recycling, Once Embraced by Businesses and Environmentalists, Now Under Siege
https://www.wsj.com/articles/recycl...-environmentalists-now-under-siege-1526209200

It's all about the money. Always has been. I don't believe it's ever been about 'the environment'.

If you are well off you can: eat all the fresh fruit and veggies you want; buy that expensive electric car and now recycle!

The most energy efficient anything, costs the most.

To live a healthy and eco friendly life, you need to be able to afford it. And that is sad.
Click to expand...

It’s a vicious cycle. If you don’t exercise, you get weak and sick, and so then you exercise less, and so then you get even more weak and sick, and down and down the spiral goes. If you don’t get an education, you get more poor, and so you have less opportunities to get an education, and so you get even more poor. Down and down the spiral goes.

It’s the same with this. That’s why there are downward spirals of poverty and upward spirals of wealth. These things build in themselves and gain a momentum all their own. If you don’t protect your environment, you lose your resources, which makes you even more poor and able to sustain your environment, which makes you even more poor, and so down and down the spiral goes. We have to do everything we can to prevent such downward spirals in the first place. They are powerful undercurrents and riptides which can lead you to disaster before you know it.
 
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There has been a downward trend in recycling for a good while. A while ago there were stories and evidence that those dumpsters at businesses marked "general trash" and "cardboard only," were emptied by the same truck on the same stop. Then the recyclers got the public to help them; glass was separated by color, clear, brown and green. Newspapers went in a separate bin, plastics in another.
Cardboard was also singled out. Then one day it was "all recyclables in the same container." We will sort it out. In the last year or so recyclables have to be separated from any plastic bags that they are brought to the facility in. They say that because of online business, we are swamped in cardboard now. We don't treat he planet well at all.......
 
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If we cant even manage recycling (and we largely can not) then how in Hell are these super expensive Save The Planet programs the geniuses keep dreaming up ever going to happen?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
If we cant even manage recycling (and we largely can not) then how in Hell are these super expensive Save The Planet programs the geniuses keep dreaming up ever going to happen?
Click to expand...

They're not going to happen. Golden Rule: The ones with the gold make the rules. Recycling isn't profitable for them. Trump is rolling back all environmental with the excuse that he is reducing regulation. Successful environmental is regulation so we're screwed. Get rid of something like property taxes or sales taxes or all the costly mandates and let those monies flow into a productive area. Local infrastructure.
/
 
It is a bit anecdotal but locally glass recycling was eliminated from the bunch about two years ago, and just this past year the line item cost for recycling has gone up anyway.

I cannot read all of the OP article as it is subscription based, but what I can tell is the industry has found even lesser expensive ways to dispose of waste and the costs associated with recycling have not kept pace.

From what I can tell from markets resources (CNBC, MarketWatch, etc.) it appears recycling has hit two road blocks. One, recycled material as a source for products has fallen in value meaning that waste management companies are getting less for that output. Two, international competition in this space has amplified the issue making it where the "cost" difference is shifted more and more to the consumer (homes and businesses paying for recycling services.) Third, (similar to Two) we have an issue with China. They still buy sorted recycled output for various production efforts and that is being watched currently with all this tariff trade war nonsense. As of recent and even though not directly caught up in a direct tariff China is buying less of this output.

If trends continue it will become an issue where there is no market value to recycling and that means the costs of doing so for environmental reasons ends up all on the consumer just to keep it.

It does not look good for recycling, outside of the political argument to keep it even if it means we all pay more to recycle.
 
holbritter said:
It's all about the money. Always has been. I don't believe it's ever been about 'the environment'.
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I think the principle was established and continues on the basis of good intentions but commercialism, greed and laziness inevitably came in and dominated. It’s partly our own faults because we’d all much rather have other people do the work rather than put in just a little effort.

holbritter said:
To live a healthy and eco friendly life, you need to be able to afford it. And that is sad.
Click to expand...
That isn’t entirely true. For a start, truly poor individuals will generally have much lower environmental impacts in the first place and so have limited scope for significant improvement. And while there are inevitably limitations for the poorer to be more environmentally friendly, there are still plenty of simple measures and habits we can use to be less wasteful in our day-to-day lives. We just generally can’t be bothered with the effort (however small) because there is no immediately apparent benefit to ourselves.
 
Recycling is serious business in my neck of the woods. The outfit that collects our trash just issued larger recycling bins to every customer. On trash day we have three different trucks that stop by. One is to pick up the brown bags of yard waste. That gets sold to those in the compost and mulch business. Another truck collects only recyclables and that gets sorted and sold to various businesses. And then the garbage truck makes the rounds. It is not uncommon to have more recyclables and yard waste than actual garbage and that is a good thing. We have trash pickers that scour the neighborhood the night before trash day looking for scrap metals. They take it to the dump and get so much per pound. It's all good.
 
Rexedgar said:
There has been a downward trend in recycling for a good while. A while ago there were stories and evidence that those dumpsters at businesses marked "general trash" and "cardboard only," were emptied by the same truck on the same stop. Then the recyclers got the public to help them; glass was separated by color, clear, brown and green. Newspapers went in a separate bin, plastics in another.
Cardboard was also singled out. Then one day it was "all recyclables in the same container." We will sort it out. In the last year or so recyclables have to be separated from any plastic bags that they are brought to the facility in. They say that because of online business, we are swamped in cardboard now. We don't treat he planet well at all.......
Click to expand...

I believe that. I hate all the boxes! Amazon Prime Now brings paper grocery bags with no excess packing. I don't know what grocery stores do. Wal-mart, if I placed the same order as with APN would come in boxes with a ton of paper and bubble wrap. Ugh.
 
I like to recycle when I can, but since China has gotten pickier, there is less that is actually supposed to go in our recycle bin (no waxed cardboard, no glass, no plastic that contained foods). Plastics not approved now still have the little triangles on the bottom. It is confusing. Plus, the haulers are threatening to add extra fees when too many of the wrong things are in the recycle bin.

On the plus side, Oregon does have a good bottle return policy, so we don't have cans and bottles thrown everywhere. And locally, Garten Services, is a big recycling company that also employs many people with disabilities.
 
OrphanSlug said:
It is a bit anecdotal but locally glass recycling was eliminated from the bunch about two years ago, and just this past year the line item cost for recycling has gone up anyway.

I cannot read all of the OP article as it is subscription based, but what I can tell is the industry has found even lesser expensive ways to dispose of waste and the costs associated with recycling have not kept pace.

From what I can tell from markets resources (CNBC, MarketWatch, etc.) it appears recycling has hit two road blocks. One, recycled material as a source for products has fallen in value meaning that waste management companies are getting less for that output. Two, international competition in this space has amplified the issue making it where the "cost" difference is shifted more and more to the consumer (homes and businesses paying for recycling services.) Third, (similar to Two) we have an issue with China. They still buy sorted recycled output for various production efforts and that is being watched currently with all this tariff trade war nonsense. As of recent and even though not directly caught up in a direct tariff China is buying less of this output.

If trends continue it will become an issue where there is no market value to recycling and that means the costs of doing so for environmental reasons ends up all on the consumer just to keep it.

It does not look good for recycling, outside of the political argument to keep it even if it means we all pay more to recycle.
Click to expand...

"We have to do something for the planet!"

Even if that something makes no sense.

That's how we roll now days...

"We're doing something!"
 
Rosie1 said:
I like to recycle when I can, but since China has gotten pickier, there is less that is actually supposed to go in our recycle bin (no waxed cardboard, no glass, no plastic that contained foods). Plastics not approved now still have the little triangles on the bottom. It is confusing. Plus, the haulers are threatening to add extra fees when too many of the wrong things are in the recycle bin.

On the plus side, Oregon does have a good bottle return policy, so we don't have cans and bottles thrown everywhere. And locally, Garten Services, is a big recycling company that also employs many people with disabilities.
Click to expand...

The rules sure do vary from place to place. I live in a burb outside of Columbus Ohio. They accept glass bottles and jars. They also collect #1 to #7 plastics. The only unacceptable items are waxed cardboard, plastic bags and greasy pizza boxes.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
If we cant even manage recycling (and we largely can not) then how in Hell are these super expensive Save The Planet programs the geniuses keep dreaming up ever going to happen?
Click to expand...

Perhaps recycling companies should take a lesson from the Disney World.

They were recycling back before others when the Park opened in 1971.

From the following:

This is a tremendous opportunity for the public to learn more about our operations and the ways in which we are protecting and enhancing the environment,” said Sr. Vice President of Government Affairs and Corporate Communications Barry Caldwell, who has been working on the project since its inception two years ago. “It’s amazing how Disney has made this happen in a fun and interactive way. It certainly furthers our goal to not only be a waste collection company, but an industry leader that is identifying new ways of reducing, reusing, and recycling materials, as well as recovering the energy in waste as a source of renewable energy.”
Eric Goodman of Walt Disney Imagineering, who headed up the creative team working on the project, said he learned a lot about trash in researching what WM does. “I believe my first thought when I got the assignment was, ‘well, here’s a story that everyone knows about because we deal with garbage everyday.’ Oh, how naïve I was,” Goodman said. “I learned that most people only know half the story – how to create garbage. We’re really good at filling trash cans and recycling bins a few times a week and dragging them down to our curb, but after that – well, I think we all believe a ‘garbage fairy’ makes the trash magically disappear. We assume the trash we see isn’t our garbage; that’s everyone else’s garbage. As I began to meet the people of Waste Management, the second half of the trash story began to become much clearer.”
The second half of the story
The “Don’t Waste It” exhibit asks guests to handle their own waste as they walk through the process of managing their trash, from collection, to recycling, to disposal at either a waste-to-energy facility or the landfill. In this case the trash is “virtual,” not real. Using what Goodman calls “the smallest, most advanced mini trash truck you could ever imagine” – a replica of a real Waste Management truck – guests are loaded up with the amount of trash equal to what they would normally create in a year. That amount is determined by a “personal trash profile” that the guests fill in before they start.
Once their mini-truck starts rolling, guests follow a route from station to station and along the way learn how their trash gets managed. They are assigned a score at the end based on the amount of recycling and energy they were able to produce. The route guests follow on their trip goes like this:
Click to expand...

Read more:
 
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We can put our plastic grocery bags in with the rest. IDK why that differs from place to place.
 
vesper said:
Recycling is serious business in my neck of the woods. The outfit that collects our trash just issued larger recycling bins to every customer. On trash day we have three different trucks that stop by. One is to pick up the brown bags of yard waste. That gets sold to those in the compost and mulch business. Another truck collects only recyclables and that gets sorted and sold to various businesses. And then the garbage truck makes the rounds. It is not uncommon to have more recyclables and yard waste than actual garbage and that is a good thing. We have trash pickers that scour the neighborhood the night before trash day looking for scrap metals. They take it to the dump and get so much per pound. It's all good.
Click to expand...

Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

Same process in my part of Ohio! :thumbs: In addition, people put furniture and things like refrigerators and bedding they're replacing with new at the curb, and the pickup truck owners love it! Whether they're keeping the furniture for their own use or selling it is unknown by me, but 10 minutes after the stuff is put at the curb, it's been loaded in a pickup truck and it's gone! :lamo
 
polgara said:
Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

Same process in my part of Ohio! :thumbs: In addition, people put furniture and things like refrigerators and bedding they're replacing with new at the curb, and the pickup truck owners love it! Whether they're keeping the furniture for their own use or selling it is unknown by me, but 10 minutes after the stuff is put at the curb, it's been loaded in a pickup truck and it's gone! :lamo
Click to expand...

Same here. Anytime something is still in working order I put a sign on it that says "still works". Our refuse company will make special pickups for appliances, furniture and electronics. Items like that if they are in working condition I donate them to Salvation Army etc. When you purchase new appliances they usually haul away the old ones but I have seen pickers looking for scrap metal load up appliances before the refuse company can pick them up. If they can make a few bucks on them more power to them.
 
vesper said:
Recycling is serious business in my neck of the woods. The outfit that collects our trash just issued larger recycling bins to every customer. On trash day we have three different trucks that stop by. One is to pick up the brown bags of yard waste. That gets sold to those in the compost and mulch business. Another truck collects only recyclables and that gets sorted and sold to various businesses. And then the garbage truck makes the rounds. It is not uncommon to have more recyclables and yard waste than actual garbage and that is a good thing. We have trash pickers that scour the neighborhood the night before trash day looking for scrap metals. They take it to the dump and get so much per pound. It's all good.
Click to expand...

That is what we have as well. We also have county facilities that accept hazardous waste (paint, used motor oil and 'unknown' chemicals) at no charge but one must haul it to them (they are only open part of the day on Tuesday and Friday here). Getting rid of old tires is still a mess but, hopefully, that may change to reduce the roadside dumping of them - our roads seem to be a prime spot for that.
 
Sasser said:
We can put our plastic grocery bags in with the rest. IDK why that differs from place to place.
Click to expand...

I recycle virtually all my plastic bags in house. A double whammy. Reuse the bag, and cut way down on plastic film and containers I would otherwise use. Plastic bags work just fine for short term freezing or reefer storage.

My county recycle policy makes no sense. They are willing to pick up recycle at the street for free, but charge ten bucks if I take it to the dump recycle bins and sort it myself. Then they complain that recycle is too expensive.
 
Recycling paper and paper like products is viable. Recycling plastics and glass isnt necessarily viable.

One of the best ways to conserve is to stop buying plastic water bottles or to simply use reusable water bottles. Much more beneficial than a recycling program.
 
OrphanSlug said:
It is a bit anecdotal but locally glass recycling was eliminated from the bunch about two years ago, and just this past year the line item cost for recycling has gone up anyway.

I cannot read all of the OP article as it is subscription based, but what I can tell is the industry has found even lesser expensive ways to dispose of waste and the costs associated with recycling have not kept pace.

From what I can tell from markets resources (CNBC, MarketWatch, etc.) it appears recycling has hit two road blocks. One, recycled material as a source for products has fallen in value meaning that waste management companies are getting less for that output. Two, international competition in this space has amplified the issue making it where the "cost" difference is shifted more and more to the consumer (homes and businesses paying for recycling services.) Third, (similar to Two) we have an issue with China. They still buy sorted recycled output for various production efforts and that is being watched currently with all this tariff trade war nonsense. As of recent and even though not directly caught up in a direct tariff China is buying less of this output.

If trends continue it will become an issue where there is no market value to recycling and that means the costs of doing so for environmental reasons ends up all on the consumer just to keep it.

It does not look good for recycling, outside of the political argument to keep it even if it means we all pay more to recycle.
Click to expand...

One of the things that might help is charging for plastic bags. They do that now in Suffolk County on Long Island, and it's starting to spread to the rest of NYS. They charge .05 cents per bag. A lot of people are bringing their own. I was just visiting this weekend, and forgot about it when I went to the pharmacy. Good thing I had a big pocketbook!
 
Corvallis, Oregon has a (no plastic bags) policy, Salem is deciding on that. It's pretty easy to just keep reusable type bags in the car (for grocery use, etc.).
 
jimbo said:
I recycle virtually all my plastic bags in house. A double whammy. Reuse the bag, and cut way down on plastic film and containers I would otherwise use. Plastic bags work just fine for short term freezing or reefer storage.
Click to expand...

So I was presented with this conundrum. I thought I should re-use my plastic grocery bags as doggy poop bags. But the doggy poop bags provided for us are bio-degradable, so,,,,,,,,,,,?
 
holbritter said:
Recycling, Once Embraced by Businesses and Environmentalists, Now Under Siege
https://www.wsj.com/articles/recycl...-environmentalists-now-under-siege-1526209200

It's all about the money. Always has been. I don't believe it's ever been about 'the environment'.

If you are well off you can: eat all the fresh fruit and veggies you want; buy that expensive electric car and now recycle!

The most energy efficient anything, costs the most.

To live a healthy and eco friendly life, you need to be able to afford it. And that is sad.
Click to expand...

Of course it was always about the money. These bureaucrats saw a money grab, dressed it up as "it's for the environment" and ran with it. Now, the program should come to an end.
 
holbritter said:
One of the things that might help is charging for plastic bags. They do that now in Suffolk County on Long Island, and it's starting to spread to the rest of NYS. They charge .05 cents per bag. A lot of people are bringing their own. I was just visiting this weekend, and forgot about it when I went to the pharmacy. Good thing I had a big pocketbook!
Click to expand...

For a while we got 10 cents off for each bag we brought but no more. I just want the paper bags back. Leave the plastic ones only for certain things that cause paper bags to get wet/break. The reusable ones have to be washed.
 
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