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Thread: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Quaestio View Post
    LOL! Pretty much most of the models would show something similar. I guess you don't know much about models either.

    So please please show us your calculations that with all CO2 removed from the atmosphere, the average surface temperature would "be 40 F or more".

    I doubt you'll find any textbook or papers agreeing with such an absurd un-physical value. Did you just take a wild guess?
    I understand that. They still don't factor the variables in correctly, and even claim a low level of understanding. The models are only trusted by those who fit on the first part of the DK curve. These model cannot be assumed to be accurate until all the variables involved have a very high level of understanding. D-K... The German word Dummkopf comes to mind too...

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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I understand that. They still don't factor the variables in correctly, and even claim a low level of understanding. The models are only trusted by those who fit on the first part of the DK curve. These model cannot be assumed to be accurate until all the variables involved have a very high level of understanding. D-K... The German word Dummkopf comes to mind too...
    Anonymous poster critiques a published paper yet has nowhere near the experience of the authors, reviewers or editors on the topic.

    The only way it can get stupider is for him to claim the *authors* are on the left hand side of the Dunning Kruger curve.

    Aaaand... let’s see if he can go for the hat trick and double down!
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Anonymous poster critiques a published paper yet has nowhere near the experience of the authors, reviewers or editors on the topic.

    The only way it can get stupider is for him to claim the *authors* are on the left hand side of the Dunning Kruger curve.

    Aaaand... let’s see if he can go for the hat trick and double down!
    Actually, in this case, two of the authors I know to be activists. I think they are very skilled at deception.

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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Actually, in this case, two of the authors I know to be activists. I think they are very skilled at deception.
    You ‘know’ this?

    Why?

    Because they publish stuff that you don’t agree with, even though you have virtually no basis for being able to evaluate their work?
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    ". . . To the extent GCMs are getting some features of the surface climate correct as a result of their current tuning, they are doing so with a flawed structure. If tuning to the surface added empirical precision to a valid physical representation, we would expect to see a good fit between models and observations at the point where the models predict the clearest and strongest thermodynamic response to greenhouse gases. Instead we observe a discrepancy across all runs of all models, taking the form of a warming bias at a sufficiently strong rate as to reject the hypothesis that the models are realistic. Our interpretation of the results is that the major hypothesis in contemporary climate models, namely the theoretically-based negative lapse rate feedback response to increasing greenhouse gases in the tropical troposphere, is flawed."
    Paper:


    That's completely irrelevant to the question of "what would the surface temperature be if all CO2 were removed from the atmosphere". Try to pay attention. Or how about YOU answer the question?
    "The inexperienced, the crackpots, and people like that, make guesses that are simple, but you can immediately see that they are wrong" -Richard Feynman
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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Quaestio View Post
    That's completely irrelevant to the question of "what would the surface temperature be if all CO2 were removed from the atmosphere". Try to pay attention. Or how about YOU answer the question?
    The point is that models are flawed.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I understand that. They still don't factor the variables in correctly, and even claim a low level of understanding. The models are only trusted by those who fit on the first part of the DK curve. These model cannot be assumed to be accurate until all the variables involved have a very high level of understanding. D-K... The German word Dummkopf comes to mind too...
    So you CAN'T show your calculations or explain the physical processes for your absurdly wrong answer of "about 40 F or more"?

    I think you need to give yourself a stern talking to. Here you go:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar to Lord of Planar View Post

    My God you are ignorant.
    "The inexperienced, the crackpots, and people like that, make guesses that are simple, but you can immediately see that they are wrong" -Richard Feynman
    “A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.” Bertrand Russell

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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The point is that models are flawed.
    No, The point is you can't answer the question "what would be the surface temperature of the earth if all CO2 was removed?"

    LOP accused Media Truth of getting it wrong (he wasn't) and of being "ignorant", then LOP got it wildly wrong himself and can't explain his answer. You don't actually need a model for the answer- it's physics.
    "The inexperienced, the crackpots, and people like that, make guesses that are simple, but you can immediately see that they are wrong" -Richard Feynman
    “A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.” Bertrand Russell

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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Quaestio View Post
    That's completely irrelevant to the question of "what would the surface temperature be if all CO2 were removed from the atmosphere". Try to pay attention. Or how about YOU answer the question?
    If you actually want to know the answer to "what would the surface temperature be if all CO2 were removed from the atmosphere".
    you would also have to eliminate the other variables.
    Since your citation stated,
    "After removing CO2 and the other non-condensing GHGs (but not the condensing GHG water vapor), water vapor would end up dropping by about 90% and the earth would be pretty much a snowball with an average surface temperature of around -18C to -21C. "
    you would have to strip out the water vapor and at least the CH4.
    You would also have to decide where ZERO CO2 actually is, is it 1 part per million, or 1 part per billion?
    It becomes important as it would take 10 doubling s to go from 1 ppm to near present level,
    but almost 20 doubling s to go from 1 ppb.
    No matter what the temp drop for zero CO2 is, it would have to be less than the aggregate of CO2 and the other non-condensing GHGs ,
    and include the 90% drop in water vapor described in their scenario.

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    Re: [W:1458] Atmospheric CO2 Tops 408 PPM

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    You ‘know’ this?

    Why?

    Because they publish stuff that you don’t agree with, even though you have virtually no basis for being able to evaluate their work?
    LOL! This is textbook stuff. But then again, has this self-proclaimed "expert" ever actually read any textbooks in this field?
    Last edited by Quaestio; 02-12-19 at 05:12 PM.
    "The inexperienced, the crackpots, and people like that, make guesses that are simple, but you can immediately see that they are wrong" -Richard Feynman
    “A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.” Bertrand Russell

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