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Climate Change Has Run Its Course

late said:
You mean science isn't free??

Koch has thousands of "skeptics" on his payroll.

Karlstrom is a nut.
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Ahh, Billions and billions and billions in gain and profit, that's fine, KOCK!!! EVIL!!! THOUSANDS!!!!

Lol, you are the willfully ignorant these people need to keep rolling in the dough.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Your argument seems to be that mankind can have no effect whatsoever on the environment or earth, accepting the scientific fact that we can and do would be "arrogance". Real arrogance is assuming the bull**** people on the internet with no scientific experience "feel" is more valid than science.

I guess we can dump all of our trash and sludge into rivers because it would be arrogant to assume man can harm the environment.
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I didn't say that. We should be taking care of our rivers and lakes, we shouldn't be destroying our forests and wooded areas or farmlands. These thing you jump at me about have nothing to do with climate change, going to an ice age or global warming. Dumping sludge into a river isn't about to change global warming into an ice age or an ice age into global warming. Mother nature controls that. This old earth goes in cycles, longer cold spells, ice ages and short warming periods. It always has and always will regardless of what mankind thinks he can control.

Some people sure can twist things. Was I talking about climate change or polluting our rivers with sludge?
 
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Sunsettommy said:
leftist schemes
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A Carbon Tax uses the market, not regulation, to reduce carbon emissions. It's a market based response to the problem.

Socialist is meaningless in this context.

Because it's market based, it's also not particularly Left wing.

"Since the idea is, to quote Mr. Chong, a "credible, market-based, conservative" way to lower emissions, what gives?

But we're talking about substance, not optics. And conservatives have not been able to mount a substantive case against carbon taxes, because there isn't one. In fact, there is solid Canadian evidence that it is both effective and suitable to conservative values."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...n-taxes-tories-and-the-truth/article38005957/

You're a used propaganda salesman, and I am afraid your product is decades past it's sell by date.
 
Renae said:
Ahh, Billions and billions and billions in gain and profit
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It's R&D.

That particular strain of propaganda is what crooks do, accusing someone else of doing their crime.
 
Perotista said:
I didn't say that. We should be taking care of our rivers and lakes, we shouldn't be destroying our forests and wooded areas or farmlands. These thing you jump at me about have nothing to do with climate change, going to an ice age or global warming. Dumping sludge into a river isn't about to change global warming into an ice age or an ice age into global warming. Mother nature controls that. This old earth goes in cycles, longer cold spells, ice ages and short warming periods. It always has and always will regardless of what mankind thinks he can control.

Some people sure can twist things. Was I talking about climate change or polluting our rivers with sludge?
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You said it was arrogant to think man can change the environment, so I gave an example. Obviously we can change the environment and do, your reject it for partisan political reasons not because you've evaluated the science and found it lacking.
 
late said:
It's R&D.

That particular strain of propaganda is what crooks do, accusing someone else of doing their crime.
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Yeah, the millions Algore made, lots of profit in those private jets and huge homes.
 
late said:
A Carbon Tax uses the market, not regulation, to reduce carbon emissions. It's a market based response to the problem.

Socialist is meaningless in this context.

Because it's market based, it's also not particularly Left wing.

"Since the idea is, to quote Mr. Chong, a "credible, market-based, conservative" way to lower emissions, what gives?

But we're talking about substance, not optics. And conservatives have not been able to mount a substantive case against carbon taxes, because there isn't one. In fact, there is solid Canadian evidence that it is both effective and suitable to conservative values."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...n-taxes-tories-and-the-truth/article38005957/

You're a used propaganda salesman, and I am afraid your product is decades past it's sell by date.
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Carbon tax are just a scam to get money, because the pollution still happens.

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/studies/carbon-tax-primer/
 
"Run it's course"? No, it continues, despite the desperate dupes of big energy.
 
What's not a scam or an issue up for debate is we live on a space ship that is a closed system; if we **** it up … we're ****ed.

But even if there were absolutely no long term life threatening consequences to our behavior it pretty obvious that living here is better for everyone if we take care of the environment. In my life since we've gone to stricter emission standards our state capital no longer has a **** brown cloud hanging over it. Since it became fashionable to pack out what you pack in it's much nicer to go fishing in our mountain lakes. People don't run to the hospital on bad pollution days. It's pretty obvious that destroying what we have is pretty brick dumb.

Just say'n!
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You said it was arrogant to think man can change the environment, so I gave an example. Obviously we can change the environment and do, your reject it for partisan political reasons not because you've evaluated the science and found it lacking.
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I said no thing. I said mother nature is in control of the climate. CLIMATE, nothing about environment. Mother nature will decide when the next ice age occurs or if the warming trends continue. Not mankind. To think mankind can control warming periods or when ice ages will come is indeed arrogant. You go argue environment with someone else, I will stick with climate.
 
Perotista said:
I said no thing. I said mother nature is in control of the climate. CLIMATE, nothing about environment. Mother nature will decide when the next ice age occurs or if the warming trends continue. Not mankind. To think mankind can control warming periods or when ice ages will come is indeed arrogant. You go argue environment with someone else, I will stick with climate.
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Climate and the environment are interlinked. Are you really going to sit there with a straight face and say that there is NO limit to the amount of Co2 and other gases we can pump into the atmosphere before causing a change? Its already stupid enough for you to flat out dismiss climate change, but to claim that content of the atmosphere can't be changed by us at all is laughably stupid.
 
Perotista said:
I didn't say that. We should be taking care of our rivers and lakes, we shouldn't be destroying our forests and wooded areas or farmlands. These thing you jump at me about have nothing to do with climate change, going to an ice age or global warming. Dumping sludge into a river isn't about to change global warming into an ice age or an ice age into global warming. Mother nature controls that. This old earth goes in cycles, longer cold spells, ice ages and short warming periods. It always has and always will regardless of what mankind thinks he can control.

Some people sure can twist things. Was I talking about climate change or polluting our rivers with sludge?
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But it is exactly the same. Dumping millions of tons of carbon into our atmosphere is polluting our air and screwing up our climate just like dumping chemicals and sewage into lakes and rivers screws up our rivers. We used to think rivers could not be polluted too. We were wrong and deniers are just as wrong about AGW.
 
late said:
It's amazing how plumbers are so much smarter than scientists.
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Intelligence and training are two separate things. Besides, plumbers deal with real issues that need real solutions. Scientists who play with models, are children by comparison.
 
late said:
Koch paid the Climate Sceptic (who was a real scientist) to do a review of climatology.

But because the Climate Sceptic was a scientist, when he did the actual work, he wound up agreeing with the climate scientists.

I imagine Koch stopped sending him money about that point.

Point is, you aren't a climatologist, just a guy that got suckered in by Big Oil propaganda.
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Why are you stuck on a repeat loop of partisanship?
 
Renae said:
The KOCH BOOOGEY man.

Do you know the amount of money in the Climate study realm? Since you're worried about money, suddenly it matters I guess.

Follow the Money – Natural Climate Change

The "skeptics" get pittance the AGW True believers? Billions. check out the slide show, maybe.. maybe it might open your eyes up. It's just some guy's slide... this guy:
Dr. Eric T. Karlstrom, Emeritus Professor of Geography, California State University, Stanislaus
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FYI...

This didn't load right on Firefox for me. I copied the link and loaded it in Edge.
 
Renae said:
The KOCH BOOOGEY man.

Do you know the amount of money in the Climate study realm? Since you're worried about money, suddenly it matters I guess.

Follow the Money – Natural Climate Change

The "skeptics" get pittance the AGW True believers? Billions. check out the slide show, maybe.. maybe it might open your eyes up. It's just some guy's slide... this guy:
Dr. Eric T. Karlstrom, Emeritus Professor of Geography, California State University, Stanislaus
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Yes, I keep telling people to follow the money. It still amazes me how they think a few million on the skeptic side matters compared to the billions poured out to make the public fear AGW.
 
late said:
Yeah, if it isn't a lie...
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You might take a few minutes and review the power point presentation, unless you know your confirmation bias is better than fact.
 
Lovebug said:
Since Steven F. Hayward is a political commentator and by no means an expert, perhaps we should continue being good stewards of this earth? I agree with him that we mustn't get all hysterical though, and may be that is what he is referring to when he mentions Who knows?
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Nobody is more fiercely an environmental advocate than I am. I love this beautiful planet we live on and all the people and flora and fauna that we share it with. And I seethe at those who knowingly corrupt, destroy, endanger it or compromise the aesthetic pleasures it gives us. I am all for clean water, uncontaminated soil, clean air.

And when it comes to global warming or human caused climate change stuff, I am not a denier, but I am a strong skeptic. They haven't convinced me yet that the AGW proponents are anything other than those greedy for money/peer acclaim and/or those seeking more government power/control over the people.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Climate and the environment are interlinked. Are you really going to sit there with a straight face and say that there is NO limit to the amount of Co2 and other gases we can pump into the atmosphere before causing a change? Its already stupid enough for you to flat out dismiss climate change, but to claim that content of the atmosphere can't be changed by us at all is laughably stupid.
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Not really, mother nature determines or the earth's tilt among other things whether or not we'll be headed to an ice age or continue in our warm period. Volcanoes and other things can also help. It's arrogant to think mankind controls the earth's tilt or volcanoes or what have you. You're talking apples to oranges for the sake of argument. You seem to think mankind can control mother nature or should I say the way the earth behaves or have behaved over its some 5 billion plus years. Now that is arrogant.

The earth isn't a hotel room where one can set the temperature via air conditioning or heating. The earth has a mind of its own. There are scientific causes for sure as to why the earth behaves or enters a certain cycle or phase such as another ice age or another warming trend. Mankind can't control those cycles. It's rather simple.

Now mankind can control what he dumps into a river or clear cutting the rain forest down which vegetation eats up your CO2. Having a third or less vegetation than a couple of hundred years ago on this planet probably has more to do with the higher CO2 than emissions. Cutting down trees and eliminating vegetation certainly is man's doing. No argument there. But controlling the earth's natural cycles, I don't think so.
 
iguanaman said:
But it is exactly the same. Dumping millions of tons of carbon into our atmosphere is polluting our air and screwing up our climate just like dumping chemicals and sewage into lakes and rivers screws up our rivers. We used to think rivers could not be polluted too. We were wrong and deniers are just as wrong about AGW.
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Are you another that thinks mankind can control the natural cycles of this earth? I don't think so. When this earth is ready to move from its present warm period into another ice age it will do so regardless of what mankind tries to do about it or thinks he can do about it. See my post #45 for a more indepth view
 
Perotista said:
Not really, mother nature determines or the earth's tilt among other things whether or not we'll be headed to an ice age or continue in our warm period. Volcanoes and other things can also help. It's arrogant to think mankind controls the earth's tilt or volcanoes or what have you. You're talking apples to oranges for the sake of argument. You seem to think mankind can control mother nature or should I say the way the earth behaves or have behaved over its some 5 billion plus years. Now that is arrogant.

The earth isn't a hotel room where one can set the temperature via air conditioning or heating. The earth has a mind of its own. There are scientific causes for sure as to why the earth behaves or enters a certain cycle or phase such as another ice age or another warming trend. Mankind can't control those cycles. It's rather simple.

Now mankind can control what he dumps into a river or clear cutting the rain forest down which vegetation eats up your CO2. Having a third or less vegetation than a couple of hundred years ago on this planet probably has more to do with the higher CO2 than emissions. Cutting down trees and eliminating vegetation certainly is man's doing. No argument there. But controlling the earth's natural cycles, I don't think so.
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Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

Well said! Excellent points made in your post! :applaud
 
late said:
A Carbon Tax uses the market, not regulation, to reduce carbon emissions. It's a market based response to the problem.

Socialist is meaningless in this context.

Because it's market based, it's also not particularly Left wing.

"Since the idea is, to quote Mr. Chong, a "credible, market-based, conservative" way to lower emissions, what gives?

But we're talking about substance, not optics. And conservatives have not been able to mount a substantive case against carbon taxes, because there isn't one. In fact, there is solid Canadian evidence that it is both effective and suitable to conservative values."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...n-taxes-tories-and-the-truth/article38005957/

You're a used propaganda salesman, and I am afraid your product is decades past it's sell by date.
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Only democrats and Socialists promoted them in the beginning, while the marketplace find ways to get around the crap which is why Capitalist America is winning while socialist nations of Europe struggles to keep up with their own ideology are losing.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Nobody is more fiercely an environmental advocate than I am. I love this beautiful planet we live on and all the people and flora and fauna that we share it with. And I seethe at those who knowingly corrupt, destroy, endanger it or compromise the aesthetic pleasures it gives us. I am all for clean water, uncontaminated soil, clean air.

And when it comes to global warming or human caused climate change stuff, I am not a denier, but I am a strong skeptic. They haven't convinced me yet that the AGW proponents are anything other than those greedy for money/peer acclaim and/or those seeking more government power/control over the people.
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Nothing to add, just thought it worth saying again.
 
Perotista said:
Are you another that thinks mankind can control the natural cycles of this earth? I don't think so. When this earth is ready to move from its present warm period into another ice age it will do so regardless of what mankind tries to do about it or thinks he can do about it. See my post #45 for a more indepth view
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There is nothing "natural" about digging up millions of tons of sequestered carbon and dumping it into the air. Adding all that carbon is like putting blankets around the Earth. It is not rocket science but it certainly is a "inconvenient truth". Are you a spoiled child that wants to eat all the ice cream? Grow up. We do not own the Earth, and it was not put here for our convenience. Like water pollution we must be good stewards or pay the consequences.
 
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