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The Real Arctic Vs The Imaginary Arctic Of Climate Scientists

Threegoofs said:
FYI- here’s a guy who’s been studying Polar Bears and bear habitat for 35 years, and would’ve considered a true expert.

He is pretty definitive about the situation in the scientific literature.

Twitter
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Are you aware of the genesis of the "polar bear crisis" fable?

A few drown polar bears were sighted floating after a storm and some ignorant bureaucrats decided they "starved to death" and it was off to the races for the gullibility disabled eco-freaks Cokes in paws and all.

People who live on the sea sometimes drown in storms

Maritime mammals who swim in the seas drown in storms too

Consider the fact that with money anyone can hunt polar bears (as many as they want to shoot)

spring-hunt-polar-bear-pics-2.jpg

Hunting Polar Bear in The Arctic - Canada North Outfitting

"mmmmm lets tell them this one 'starved to death' "
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Hows that for a "climate endangered" species: WTF?

The truth is that polar bears are thriving, not all but just most just as with all wildlife populations. The Churchill population is growing and lots of eco-freaks are burning millions of tons of carbon to watch them before the "carbon pollution" from these costly arctic "eco-tourism" trips causes them all to go extinct - WTF?

Bears are like people some populations figure things out better than others.

There are thriving populations in some areas with little ice and other populations cannot handle the thickness of the ice and are having a tough time of it. That's life.

Since hunters are no longer clubbing baby seals to death on the ice, they are no longer representing competition for polar bear snacks and dead baby seals are simply yummy snacks for polar bears

Bureaucrats "study" normality because that's where the government money is and a crisis is the proverbial pot of gold at the end of their little rainbows, be it a manufactured crisis or just another normal "crisis"





 
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SirGareth said:
Are you aware of the genesis of the "polar bear crisis" fable?

A few drown polar bears were sighted floating after a storm and some ignorant bureaucrats decided they "starved to death" and it was off to the races for the gullibility disabled eco-freaks Cokes in paws and all.

People who live on the sea sometimes drown in storms

Maritime mammals who swim in the seas drown in storms too

Consider the fact that with money anyone can hunt polar bears (as many as they want to shoot)

View attachment 67229320

Hunting Polar Bear in The Arctic - Canada North Outfitting


Hows that for a "climate endangered" species: WTF?

The truth is that polar bears are thriving, not all but just most just as with all wildlife populations. The Curchill population is growing and lots of eco-freaks are burning millions of tons of carbon to watch them before the "carbon pollution" from these costly arctic "eco-tourism" causes them all to go extinct - WTF?

Bears are like people some populations figure things out better than others.

There are thriving populations in some areas with little ice and others populations cannot handle the thickness of the ice and are having a tough time of it.

Since hunters are no longer clubbing baby seals to death on the ice, they are no longer representing competition for polar bear snacks and dead baby seals are simply yummy snacks for polar bears

Bureaucrats "study" normality because that's where the government money is and a crisis is the proverbial pot of gold at the end of their little rainbows, be it a manufactured crisis or just another normal "crisis"
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I’ll stick with the guy who studied polar bears for 35 years instead of an article from a site that makes its money by finding saps to pay thousands to hunt them.

But thanks for the small insight into your irrational thought processes.
 
Threegoofs said:
I’ll stick with the guy who studied polar bears for 35 years instead of an article from a site that makes its money by finding saps to pay thousands to hunt them.

But thanks for the small insight into your irrational thought processes.
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Well there's a lot of $$$$$$ to be made either way isn't there, whether killing them or "studying" them?

BTW, I've "studied" women for over 70 years and I'm still clueless about them.

So much for "studying."

Do any of these bureaucratic parasites ever actually "do" anything?


 
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SirGareth said:


Well there's a lot of $$$$$$ to be made either way isn't there, whether killing them or "studying" them?

BTW, I've "studied" women for over 70 years and I'm still clueless about them.

So much for "studying."

Do any of these bureaucratic parasites ever actually "do" anything?
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I see you’re unfamiliar with the activities of academics and confuse them with bureaucrats.

Can’t say I’m surprised, or anything.

Nor am I surprised by your admission that you’re ‘clueless’ on areas that you say you study, since you demonstrate that with your posts.
 
Threegoofs said:
I see you’re unfamiliar with the activities of academics and confuse them with bureaucrats
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I've hired a few academics in my former role as an engineering manager and found they were not worth a pinch of crap.

After giving one (a PhD EE ) the simplest design assignment I could hand out, he had accomplished nothing after 90 days of "studying" the problem, he concluded that what I asked him to do was "impossible."

Consequently I gave the assignment to a senior engineering technician and the work, circuit board design for an ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode) multiplexer, was completed and tested in the same 90 days.

Yes I am quite familiar with "academics:" a great synonym for useless, and government employed academics are even worse than useless.

If you slop at the public trough, you are a "bureaucrat," this is true whether you clean toilets or peer into them to "study" the toilets as an "academic."



Threegoofs said:
Can’t say I’m surprised, or anything.
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Somnambulists are not surprised at anything either so I wont wake you.


Threegoofs said:
Nor am I surprised by your admission that you’re ‘clueless’ on areas that you say you study, since you demonstrate that with your posts.
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Admitting ignorance is the first step in acquiring wisdom, trading on their ignorance is the hallmark of academia and their global warming scam is the mother lode of all steaming piles of ignorance.
 
Threegoofs said:
bd21141d32ba66cadcb8fc33a5c91bce.jpg
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Too bad you have no counterpoint to the post.

Meanwhile want to read about how many times scientists and eco loonies make those silly no summer ice predictions?

Snicker.......
 
Threegoofs said:
Yeah, silly.

0dce5173fd058cd21c56432243e6867f.jpg
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Seen that many time, but I see that people like you like to DEFLECT from my comment:


Meanwhile want to read about how many times scientists and eco loonies make those silly no summer ice predictions?
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It is apparent that you don't know.
 
Sunsettommy said:
Too bad you have no counterpoint to the post.

Meanwhile want to read about how many times scientists and eco loonies make those silly no summer ice predictions?

Snicker.......
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He said it all with that picture.

Disaster movies are fiction. So are the dire predictions of AGW...
 
Threegoofs said:
You do the math.

fb21132fac088f614a644c3bef59c264.jpg
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Your ignorance goes on and on, here is a short sample of how far off the mark arctic scientists have been:

Ice-Free Arctic Forecasts

Scientist Jay Wally thinks (2007) that it will be nearly ice free in 2012

Scientist Mark Serrezze thinks (2007) it WILL be ice free by 2012

DR. Maslowski thinks (2007) it will be ice free by 2013

Pseudoscientist All Gore thinks (2009) it will be free of ice by 2014

Scientist Wadhams thinks (2013) it could be ice free by 2015

Loudmouth Beckwith thinks in March 2013 that it will be ice free a few months later.

LINK
 
Lord of Planar said:
He said it all with that picture.

Disaster movies are fiction. So are the dire predictions of AGW...
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Have already posted a comment showing a few published papers and Dr. Meier presentation, all showing evidence of little to no summer ice for long periods of time in the early part of the Holocene to the MWP time. They ignore it...., with the usual reaction from warmists.

Meanwhile they ignore or resisted years of large Antarctica sea ice expansion, since it didn't meet the holy IPCC predictions.

Sad.
 
Sunsettommy said:
Your ignorance goes on and on, here is a short sample of how far off the mark arctic scientists have been:

Ice-Free Arctic Forecasts

Scientist Jay Wally thinks (2007) that it will be nearly ice free in 2012

Scientist Mark Serrezze thinks (2007) it WILL be ice free by 2012

DR. Maslowski thinks (2007) it will be ice free by 2013

Pseudoscientist All Gore thinks (2009) it will be free of ice by 2014

Scientist Wadhams thinks (2013) it could be ice free by 2015

Loudmouth Beckwith thinks in March 2013 that it will be ice free a few months later.

LINK
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So you don’t have actual predictions from published journals, just speculative guesses.

You realize that the issue is not IF the Arctic will be ice free...but WHEN, right?
 
Threegoofs said:
So you don’t have actual predictions from published journals, just speculative guesses.

You realize that the issue is not IF the Arctic will be ice free...but WHEN, right?
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No, the issue is whether that will be any sort of trouble.
 
Threegoofs said:
That’s pretty well understood.

By normal people, that is.
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Then you can specify exactly what trouble it would be for the Arctic ocean to be ice free.

I'll head off the obviuosly wrong bit about polar bears since that study you don't like says that it was ice free 6,000 years ago. And they managed.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Then you can specify exactly what trouble it would be for the Arctic ocean to be ice free.

I'll head off the obviuosly wrong bit about polar bears since that study you don't like says that it was ice free 6,000 years ago. And they managed.
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That’s OK. I’ve learned it’s worthless to bring information like that to you. You’ll just deny the obvious factual information exists, much like the whole Greenland thing.

You’re not worth the time.
 
Threegoofs said:
That’s OK. I’ve learned it’s worthless to bring information like that to you. You’ll just deny the obvious factual information exists, much like the whole Greenland thing.

You’re not worth the time.
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I serve up an ideal opportunity for you to exound your message of why we must act and you run away.

Is that due to you being intimidated by me or not having anything to say when challenged?
 
Tim the plumber said:
I serve up an ideal opportunity for you to exound your message of why we must act and you run away.

Is that due to you being intimidated by me or not having anything to say when challenged?
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I thought my post was clear.
 
Nickyjo said:
Is this guy a scientist? If so, or if he has done lots of studies in the field, he should write an article on his findings, get it peer reviewed and published, then testify before the various national and international committees that deal with the issue. I am sure that NASA and other bodies would consider his work if properly reviewed. On the Artic, I heard that the Northwest Passage was clear of ice in 2008 and again in 2016.

But what's your point? Should we reverse the course of several decades and burn more coal? Eliminate mileage or pollution standards and bring smog back to LA? Even if climate change is not caused by human activity, most of the recommended steps I have heard of to deal with it seem to be good for other purposes.
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Tony Heller has a degree in Geology and a Master in Electrical Engineering, who is a world class Computer expert who was the debugger God for Intel, who has testified in favor of the Air and Clean water act in the 1970's before a senate subcommittee. Worked for two years as a Forest Ranger trying to educate and defend the wilderness, currently fighting the City of Boulder from destroying a wilderness area for development, which has been kept at the TOP of his blog list roll for any one who visit his blog. He post a lot of Photo's of the area showing WHY they should be left alone for wildlife which is quite easy to spot from many bird species, Deer, wildflowers and more he has seen.

He deliberately lives a low CO2 lifestyle, rarely using a car, doesn't use AC during the summer and rides his bike to work and stores.

He worked for NCAR making those climate based charts for them.

No he is on record as a strong supporter of the Clean air and Water act, who defends it by testifying to maintain it before government committee's.

"peer review" publishing is not the only way to discuss or research science, which by the way has a lot of problems anyway as too many papers later get exposed as being junk or fraudulent.

Do try to debate on what he says or leave it alone, stop making deflections saying he isn't going through proper channels, which is silly as science advances a lot without even publishing papers at all.
 
Tim the plumber said:
It was. You ran away/Did not want to explain why the Arctic ocean being free of ice would be bad.
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They try hard to ignore that it was ice free or nearly so, much LOWER than now for thousands of years in the early Interglacial time frame. The last time it did this was during the MWP time frame.

Yet no indication that it was catastrophic to the planet, Polar Bears,Ringed Seals are still with us.

It is part of their dishonestly that I see in them every day.
 
Sunsettommy said:
Tony Heller has a degree in Geology and a Master in Electrical Engineering, who is a world class Computer expert who was the debugger God for Intel, who has testified in favor of the Air and Clean water act in the 1970's before a senate subcommittee. Worked for two years as a Forest Ranger trying to educate and defend the wilderness, currently fighting the City of Boulder from destroying a wilderness area for development, which has been kept at the TOP of his blog list roll for any one who visit his blog. He post a lot of Photo's of the area showing WHY they should be left alone for wildlife which is quite easy to spot from many bird species, Deer, wildflowers and more he has seen.

He deliberately lives a low CO2 lifestyle, rarely using a car, doesn't use AC during the summer and rides his bike to work and stores.

He worked for NCAR making those climate based charts for them.

No he is on record as a strong supporter of the Clean air and Water act, who defends it by testifying to maintain it before government committee's.

"peer review" publishing is not the only way to discuss or research science, which by the way has a lot of problems anyway as too many papers later get exposed as being junk or fraudulent.

Do try to debate on what he says or leave it alone, stop making deflections saying he isn't going through proper channels, which is silly as science advances a lot without even publishing papers at all.
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I think you misunderstood my point. What I was questioning, or rather seeking information about, was the strategy of those who wish to influence policy makers to change course from actions based on the belief in the allegedly mistaken science.
 
Nickyjo said:
I think you misunderstood my point. What I was questioning, or rather seeking information about, was the strategy of those who wish to influence policy makers to change course from actions based on the belief in the allegedly mistaken science.
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I understood it a long time ago, but as you just demonstrate, you think it is one way. When in reality we live in a world where we have free speech that allows debate on any topic. That people are free to influence others with their argument that hopefully are credible and factual.

Warmists too often denigrate the authors of papers or presentations, that is to honestly make a cogent critical assessment on what they say. Which goes beyond personal qualifications that may not even matter in what credibility they have. Instead as I have see many time already in my first 3 days here seen a lot of personal attacks on people and or websites, all the while ignoring what they stated in the articles they publish.

That is why I was defending Tony who DOES have a science background who does allow a debate at his forum, while he pursues what he thinks is really going on. But too many times there he just get attacked with name calling and sneering statements about his writings. It is why many end up getting banned such as David Appel who acted like a jerk in his last days there.
 
Sunsettommy said:
I understood it a long time ago, but as you just demonstrate, you think it is one way. When in reality we live in a world where we have free speech that allows debate on any topic. That people are free to influence others with their argument that hopefully are credible and factual.

Warmists too often denigrate the authors of papers or presentations, that is to honestly make a cogent critical assessment on what they say. Which goes beyond personal qualifications that may not even matter in what credibility they have. Instead as I have see many time already in my first 3 days here seen a lot of personal attacks on people and or websites, all the while ignoring what they stated in the articles they publish.

That is why I was defending Tony who DOES have a science background who does allow a debate at his forum, while he pursues what he thinks is really going on. But too many times there he just get attacked with name calling and sneering statements about his writings. It is why many end up getting banned such as David Appel who acted like a jerk in his last days there.
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Sorry, but I don’t understand at all. I was seeking information on where the “skeptical” movement (or whatever is the best description) is placing its energy to resist the “warmists.” The latter have used international conferences and organizations to promote awareness and policies that they believe will help address the problem. The former have another problem to address, the supposed agreement of a majority of scientists and the acquiesence of various powers that be to the dominant, if faulty, analysis. If I agree with the skeptics, where do I contribute, go to volunteer, etc. Sen Inhof and talk radio don’t seem like a plan.
 
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