• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Our shifting magnetic field

Lord of Planar

Lord of Planar

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
66,514
Reaction score
22,170
Location
Portlandia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I'm sure that the earths magnetic field has an effect on the climate, but I don't know if it has any significant relevance. My assumption is that it would. After all, it causes the borealis in the north and south, and the magnetic south region has the largest ozone hole on the globe, it forms the shape of the Van Allen belt, it protects us from outside radiation, and so many other things. Well, the magnetic field strength and locations of the poles do change, and are notable year to year. This link I'll provide isn't about the climate, but has a couple nice animations dealing with the earth magnetic field changes.


In the past few decades, geophysicists have tried to answer that question through satellite imagery and math. They have figured out how to peer deep inside the Earth, to the edge of the molten, metallic core where the magnetic field is continually being generated. It turns out that the dipole — the orderly two-pole magnetic field our compasses respond to — is under attack from within.
​

The Magnetic Field Is Shifting. The Poles May Flip. This Could Get Bad

Now I don't pay much attention to the "This could get bad" because it is a very slow process, and we will adapt. Unless the magnetic field gets weak or disappears. If it disappears, we disappear...
 
Another doomsday hypothesis about a geomagnetic flip plays up fears about incoming solar activity. This suggestion mistakenly assumes that a pole reversal would momentarily leave Earth without the magnetic field that protects us from solar flares and coronal mass ejections from the sun. But, while Earth's magnetic field can indeed weaken and strengthen over time, there is no indication that it has ever disappeared completely. A weaker field would certainly lead to a small increase in solar radiation on Earth – as well as a beautiful display of aurora at lower latitudes - but nothing deadly. Moreover, even with a weakened magnetic field, Earth's thick atmosphere also offers protection against the sun's incoming particles.

The science shows that magnetic pole reversal is – in terms of geologic time scales – a common occurrence that happens gradually over millennia. While the conditions that cause polarity reversals are not entirely predictable – the north pole's movement could subtly change direction, for instance – there is nothing in the millions of years of geologic record to suggest that any of the 2012 doomsday scenarios connected to a pole reversal should be taken seriously. A reversal might, however, be good business for magnetic compass manufacturers.
Click to expand...

https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html


The only major, noticeable effect that’s guaranteed to occur when the polar flop is finished is that your compass needle will tell you that North is in Antarctica and South is somewhere near Canada. This will make the names of the American continents temporarily confusing (at least, on a geologic time scale) but it’ll make for a good story in classrooms.

Another interesting consequence will be that animals that use Earth’s magnetic field for navigation—including birds, salmon, and sea turtles—could get lost during their routine journeys. Eventually they will sort this out, and all other things being equal, life will go on. Lots of doomsday prophets have tried to equate geomagnetic flips with mass extinctions, but the data just aren’t there.
Click to expand...
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/earth-magnetic-field-flip-north-south-poles-science/
 
Last edited:
ecofarm said:
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html



https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/earth-magnetic-field-flip-north-south-poles-science/
Click to expand...

Yes, no doomsday. I agree. As I stated, the changing magnetic field will have an effect on the climate. I just don't know if it is significant enough to matter. Never saw any climate assessments on this aspect of the climate system. It would be interesting to look into if anyone besides myself has the inclination to.
 
At the rate we are going humans will not make it to the next flip, and I know I wont, so I really dont give a flip.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I'm sure that the earths magnetic field has an effect on the climate, but I don't know if it has any significant relevance. My assumption is that it would. After all, it causes the borealis in the north and south, and the magnetic south region has the largest ozone hole on the globe, it forms the shape of the Van Allen belt, it protects us from outside radiation, and so many other things. Well, the magnetic field strength and locations of the poles do change, and are notable year to year. This link I'll provide isn't about the climate, but has a couple nice animations dealing with the earth magnetic field changes.


In the past few decades, geophysicists have tried to answer that question through satellite imagery and math. They have figured out how to peer deep inside the Earth, to the edge of the molten, metallic core where the magnetic field is continually being generated. It turns out that the dipole — the orderly two-pole magnetic field our compasses respond to — is under attack from within.
​

The Magnetic Field Is Shifting. The Poles May Flip. This Could Get Bad

Now I don't pay much attention to the "This could get bad" because it is a very slow process, and we will adapt. Unless the magnetic field gets weak or disappears. If it disappears, we disappear...
Click to expand...

Do you actually believe this or do you think it's a hoax put on by algore and all the world's climate scientists?
 
Lord of Planar said:
I'm sure that the earths magnetic field has an effect on the climate, but I don't know if it has any significant relevance. My assumption is that it would. After all, it causes the borealis in the north and south, and the magnetic south region has the largest ozone hole on the globe, it forms the shape of the Van Allen belt, it protects us from outside radiation, and so many other things. Well, the magnetic field strength and locations of the poles do change, and are notable year to year. This link I'll provide isn't about the climate, but has a couple nice animations dealing with the earth magnetic field changes.


In the past few decades, geophysicists have tried to answer that question through satellite imagery and math. They have figured out how to peer deep inside the Earth, to the edge of the molten, metallic core where the magnetic field is continually being generated. It turns out that the dipole — the orderly two-pole magnetic field our compasses respond to — is under attack from within.
​

The Magnetic Field Is Shifting. The Poles May Flip. This Could Get Bad

Now I don't pay much attention to the "This could get bad" because it is a very slow process, and we will adapt. Unless the magnetic field gets weak or disappears. If it disappears, we disappear...
Click to expand...
Cool stuff. Thanks.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
At the rate we are going humans will not make it to the next flip, and I know I wont, so I really dont give a flip.
Click to expand...

I'm banking on 25 more years. You?
 
calamity said:
I'm banking on 25 more years. You?
Click to expand...

15 tops, and the last ones will not be fun, but thanks ever so much for asking and reminding me how close the grim reaper is.

minzdr.gif
 
Hawkeye10 said:
15 tops, and the last ones will not be fun, but thanks ever so much for asking and reminding me how close the grim reaper is.

minzdr.gif
Click to expand...

I hear ya. I'm hoping for 30, with maybe 20 more working, at least part time. But, every day from here on is really just a gift. :(
 
Lord of Planar said:
LOL...

The flip if it happens again won't be for a very long time. We will all be dead.
Click to expand...

Oh, of that I am quite sure. I just got to thinking what I had left. :(
 
calamity said:
I hear ya. I'm hoping for 30, with maybe 20 more working, at least part time. But, every day from here on is really just a gift. :(
Click to expand...

You know I think I might be getting morbid because I keep finding myself eating something great or ****ing something great and I think "I need to really enjoy this, because I dont know how many more times I am going to get to do this".

On the one hand I am having a really good time....

On the other this does not sound healthy.

I might need help.

trenchcoat.gif
 
Last edited:
Hawkeye10 said:
You know I think I might be getting morbid because I keep finding myself eating something great or ****ing something great and I think "I need to really enjoy this, because I dont know how many more times I am going to get to do this".

On the one hand I am having a really good time....

On the other this does not sound healthy.

I might need help.

trenchcoat.gif
Click to expand...

In my case, I've grown to really enjoy work...only because I know my time left in the career is rapidly coming to an end.
 
calamity said:
Oh, of that I am quite sure. I just got to thinking what I had left. :(
Click to expand...

Well, My father is still doing pretty good in his 80's. I hope to see 2050 in reasonable health.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Well, My father is still doing pretty good in his 80's. I hope to see 2050 in reasonable health.
Click to expand...

Mine is 76, and doing well too. But, I'm not betting on one day past 80 for myself. Although, I certainly will take them, if available.
 
On a serious note, where the magnetic pole resides may cause the climate to be different than if the magnetic pole was elsewhere. Does anyone agree or disagree with this?
 
Lord of Planar said:
On a serious note, where the magnetic pole resides may cause the climate to be different than if the magnetic pole was elsewhere. Does anyone agree or disagree with this?
Click to expand...

The obvious thing to do would be to look back at paleoclimate proxies and see if there is any correlation with movements and/or reversals of the magnetic poles. A scientific opinion requires evidence of some sort, otherwise it's just conjecture.
 
Last edited:
Lord of Planar said:
On a serious note, where the magnetic pole resides may cause the climate to be different than if the magnetic pole was elsewhere. Does anyone agree or disagree with this?
Click to expand...

I don't see how it could effect climate. Do you have any mechanism in mind for how it would cause a difference?
 
Surface Detail said:
The obvious thing to do would be to look back at paleoclimate proxies and see if there is any correlation with movements and/or reversals of the magnetic poles. A scientific opinion requires evidence of some sort, otherwise it's just conjecture.
Click to expand...

I would have to do quite a bit of looking for papers. Don't know that I have the time. I was hoping someone would have more time that I to help look for relevant findings. To correlate regional earth changes, and know where the poles were in the distant past could be rather difficult, maybe impossible.

What if the interglacial periods actually follow when the poles are aligned near the rotational poles, and the closer they align, the warmer it gets?

Just a what if. I don't have the means if testing such an idea, that may be completely wrong anyway.
 
spud_meister said:
I don't see how it could effect climate. Do you have any mechanism in mind for how it would cause a difference?
Click to expand...

For one, the same mechanism that causes the polar ozone holes, and borealises. The radiant energy that passes at the poles is more intense in the high energy photons.
 
Lord of Planar said:
For one, the same mechanism that causes the polar ozone holes, and borealises. The radiant energy that passes at the poles is more intense in the high energy photons.
Click to expand...

The aurora's are caused by particles deflecting off the magnetosphere. The magnetosphere will still be there even if the polarity is reversed. Holes in the ozone layers are caused by CFC's breaking O[SUB]3[/SUB] into O[SUB]2[/SUB], increased solar radiation reaching earth is an effect, not a cause.
 
spud_meister said:
The aurora's are caused by particles deflecting off the magnetosphere. The magnetosphere will still be there even if the polarity is reversed. Holes in the ozone layers are caused by CFC's breaking O[SUB]3[/SUB] into O[SUB]2[/SUB], increased solar radiation reaching earth is an effect, not a cause.
Click to expand...

I'm not speaking of a reversal, but how far away the magnetic poles are from the rotational poles. Yes, CFC's change the size of the polar holes, but they are there anyway.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I'm not speaking of a reversal, but how far away the magnetic poles are from the rotational poles.
Click to expand...

Other than change the location of the auroras, what would that do to climate?

Yes, CFC's change the size of the polar holes, but they are there anyway.
Click to expand...

Ok. So how would a shifting magnetic field effect them?
 
spud_meister said:
Other than change the location of the auroras, what would that do to climate?



Ok. So how would a shifting magnetic field effect them?
Click to expand...

The position where the energetic particles have less resistance striking the earth. Over sea, ice, and land.

Like I said, I don't know how significant this would be. It might be significant, or have no relevance. I'm just not one to rule out an idea untested.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom