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Trump follows EUROPE'S LEAD on solar panel tariff

This isn't the first time some liberals have sided with an enemy trying to destroy America and it won't be the last. The Chinese subsidized solar panels flooded the American market and killed off a slew of American enterprises including the AMONIX PLANT IN NORTH LAS VEGAS.

China Killing American Jobs by flooding the market with Cheap Solar Panels.

There is not reason why this shouldn't be totally and completely bi-partisan, but just like how that idiotic asshole Dean Heller cheered just to crow in the face of the opposition, I see some liberals now demanding that the Chinese be allowed to kill more American jobs just because they hate Trump.
 
Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
Do you wish to pay people to do useless things? Pay them well, middle class jobs, or pay then the same for useful work?

And now you are not even addressing all the middle-class jobs that solar has created and could continue to create.

Unless you want to outsource them to China. Maybe that is what you want. :shrug:

Do you apply deliberate ignorance to all your thinking????

I am addressing the point that having people paid to do useless stuff, solar power, uses them in a way that is not productive. If we had them redeployed to more useful tsaks them the world would be better.

Such hard work!!!
 
This isn't the first time some liberals have sided with an enemy trying to destroy America and it won't be the last. The Chinese subsidized solar panels flooded the American market and killed off a slew of American enterprises including the AMONIX PLANT IN NORTH LAS VEGAS.

China Killing American Jobs by flooding the market with Cheap Solar Panels.

There is not reason why this shouldn't be totally and completely bi-partisan, but just like how that idiotic asshole Dean Heller cheered just to crow in the face of the opposition, I see some liberals now demanding that the Chinese be allowed to kill more American jobs just because they hate Trump.

It is amazing that these so-call more educated liberals cannot see simple truths.
 
And now you turn to blatant racism. Beautiful. It's like you're trying to do everything except give a reasonable refutation to my points. :roll:

Here I am trying to save the lives of thousands of young blacks in the shooting drug infested galleries of Democrat run cities in the USA and give them meaningful work smashing windows so that we can employ thousands of more middle-class union glaziers to fix them up again and you have the Gaul label me a racist for my efforts towards saving young blacks:

BLACK LIVES MATTER !
 
And what that "helpful reminder" makes clear is the exorbitant cost of solar compared to fossil fuels.

Yep.

Solar. 373,807 workers for 1% of the USA electricity. Fossil fuels, 187,117 workers for 65%. Nuclear, 68,176 for 20%, and Wind is at 101,738 workers for 6%.

So... for each 1% of USA electricity, Solar takes 373,807 workers. Fossil Fuel takes 2,879 workers, Wind takes 16,956, and Nuclear takes 2,879.

I takes more than 100 times the employees in solar then it does nuclear, and over 125 times the employees as fossil fuels.

How is it going to be cheaper?

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=electricity_in_the_united_states
 
Completely agree with the first half, we fundamentally agree I just took issue with your comment about a tariff causing more jobs to be outsourced because it would be the inverse effect in that it would help make the US more competitive. I don't feel the cost the rest of society would be impacted by it would justify the amount of jobs (If any) gained.

What I don't understand is why conservatives flip-flopped so dramatically on tariffs in recent years. If they believe in the "invisible free hand of the free market," why does it need government correction? Don't they believe that reducing costs for the customer is a good thing and taxes that get passed down to the consumer are bad things?
 
What I don't understand is why conservatives flip-flopped so dramatically on tariffs in recent years. If they believe in the "invisible free hand of the free market," why does it need government correction? Don't they believe that reducing costs for the customer is a good thing and taxes that get passed down to the consumer are bad things?

You do not understand quite a bit, how does it serve US interests to demand power companies buy Chinese solar panels or give solar tax rebates to people who buy Chinese?

Drop all goverment demands, credits and subsidies and solar DIES with or without tariffs.
 
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You do not understand quite a bit, how does it serve US interests to demand power companies by Chinese solar panels or give tax rebates to people who buy Chinese?

Drop all goverment demands, credits and subsidies and solar DIES with or without tariffs.

Just to be clear, as a conservative, you do want the government to intervene with economic tools to steer the market instead of letting it run free?
 
What I don't understand is why conservatives flip-flopped so dramatically on tariffs in recent years. If they believe in the "invisible free hand of the free market," why does it need government correction? Don't they believe that reducing costs for the customer is a good thing and taxes that get passed down to the consumer are bad things?

It is the same problem with modern liberals. It has less to do with actual principles and beliefs and more to do with who proposes it. It is amazing and yet disheartening to see the hypocrisy of the vast majority of this country. In 4-8 years we will likely see this same situation brought up only the teams will flip and they will be using the exact same arguments and rhetoric that their counterparts are currently using against them. Just look at this past shutdown and reference it with the previous, or fox news in their coverage of Obama and Trump in regards to infrastructure. This is simply modern politics in America, team based rather than principles.

Edit: Of course this is a generalization, there are a few who actually stand by their beliefs.

Edit: Also, Free Markets are technically a Liberal (Libertarian)stance while Tariffs on imports are a more Nationalist stance. Trump swung much of the party from Conservation of Liberal ideals over to a more Nationalist view. This would explain a major part of the shift.
 
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Drop all goverment demands, credits and subsidies and solar DIES with or without tariffs.
I actually disagree, I think a case could be made for solar simply based on dollars.
Lets say a $20K installed system like this one,
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1891...h-solaredge-and-24-solarworld-295-watt-panels
at $13k with $7k for the install, produces 966 Kwh per month.
Between the actual electricity rate, fees and taxes, most people pay about $.10 per Kwh.
The system could generate $96 a month in savings, or $1152 per year.
An $1152 a year return on a $20K investment is roughly a 5.7% rate of return.
My current savings is not generating a 5.7% return.
Now if the current 30% tax credit were applied, the system cost would be $14 K,
and the rate of return would be 8.2%.
These are numbers that make home solar look fairly attractive.
FYI, this has nothing to do with AGW, or CO2, simply personal savings.
Switching all of your light bulbs out to LED will have a bigger bang for the buck, but the savings would be a different order of magnitude.
 
I actually disagree, I think a case could be made for solar simply based on dollars.
Lets say a $20K installed system like this one,
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1891...h-solaredge-and-24-solarworld-295-watt-panels
at $13k with $7k for the install, produces 966 Kwh per month.
Between the actual electricity rate, fees and taxes, most people pay about $.10 per Kwh.
The system could generate $96 a month in savings, or $1152 per year.
An $1152 a year return on a $20K investment is roughly a 5.7% rate of return.
My current savings is not generating a 5.7% return.
Now if the current 30% tax credit were applied, the system cost would be $14 K,
and the rate of return would be 8.2%.
These are numbers that make home solar look fairly attractive.
FYI, this has nothing to do with AGW, or CO2, simply personal savings.
Switching all of your light bulbs out to LED will have a bigger bang for the buck, but the savings would be a different order of magnitude.

It isn't a 30% tax credit, it is a 30% tax increase.
 
It isn't a 30% tax credit, it is a 30% tax increase.
No, the recent move by Trump was to impose a 30% Tariff on Chinese panels,
they are not the only makers...yet. The panels in the cite, are made in the US, Canada, and Germany,
and saw no added tariff.
The 30% tax credit is the Solar Investment tax credit (ITC)
https://www.seia.org/initiatives/solar-investment-tax-credit-itc
for people who install solar on their homes.
 
Just to be clear, as a conservative, you do want the government to intervene with economic tools to steer the market instead of letting it run free?

Just to be clear, I want government to get the hell out of telling people how to power their houses, businesses, and industries. Then let the Chinese flood the market. No one will buy their crap unless they are giving it away.
 
Just to be clear, I want government to get the hell out of telling people how to power their houses, businesses, and industries. Then let the Chinese flood the market. No one will buy their crap unless they are giving it away.

You want the government out of the economy, yet you support tariffs. You cannot have it both ways. So which will it be?
 
You want the government out of the economy, yet you support tariffs. You cannot have it both ways. So which will it be?

No tariffs as long as no one is is favored by the government, to tax credit, no subsidies, no mandates
 
No tariffs as long as no one is is favored by the government, to tax credit, no subsidies, no mandates

That's not a straight answer. That's an if-then hypothetical. Now try again: Do you or do you not support tariffs to any extent?
 
Just to be clear, I want government to get the hell out of telling people how to power their houses, businesses, and industries. Then let the Chinese flood the market. No one will buy their crap unless they are giving it away.

This is a very naive way of thinking. The Chinese do dump extremely cheap steel onto our markets. It doesn't need to be free, just extremely cheap. Do you know what that can do if we don't tariff it? It can put our businesses out of business and then we are forced to import steel. It's basically predatory pricing, but it's legal because China is a sovereign country.
 
T It's basically predatory pricing, but it's legal because China is a sovereign country.
You are correct, if a private US company used it's reserve funds to artificially make it's products cheaper, to push
it's competition out of business, it would violate the antitrust laws.
 
Now is as good a time as any for this helpful reminder:



Keep in mind that this is Forbes, which has a decidedly capitalist slant.

Chart is wrong

In 2016, 55 percent, or 1.1 million, of these employees worked in traditional coal, oil,
and gas, while almost 800,000 workers were employed in low carbon emission generation
technologies, including renewables, nuclear, and advanced/low emission natural gas.
Just under
374,000 individuals work, in whole or in part, for solar firms, with more than 260,000 of those
employees spending the majority of their time on solar. There are an additional 102,000 workers
employed at wind firms across the nation.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/01/f34/2017 US Energy and Jobs Report_0.pdf
 
It mentions it will increase prices for panels thereby reducing demand.

There are a lot of industries in the US that exist where a basic component is made in China, shipped to the US, and sales persons/installation professionals, repairmen etc in the US make a substantial % of the overall profit in that industry.

If the price of panels goes and it results in less people purchasing panels then those other parts of the supply chain suffer. Will the jobs created those tariffs offset the loss of jobs due to lower demand?

I don't know, I don't follow the solar panel sector but manufacturing solar panels is only one piece of the industry.

Also consider that China is the leader in solar, and Europe also up there, and we have oil company dick sucking republicans impeding anything green that we don't have the capabilities that they have in China and Europe. OUr companies likely need that. Do we even have any solar panel manufacturing here?
 
It is amazing that these so-call more educated liberals cannot see simple truths.

Says the people that think making a statement that something is truth without any argument to back it up is being smart LOL

Sorry, liberals on this forum every day show where the intelligence and education is, where the majority of conservatives can do is copy and paste garbage links and have on line deflections, while liberals present facts, and their reasoning, and can post more than one or two sentences.

You guys don't even try, we are embarrassed for you

What I don't understand is why conservatives flip-flopped so dramatically on tariffs in recent years. If they believe in the "invisible free hand of the free market," why does it need government correction? Don't they believe that reducing costs for the customer is a good thing and taxes that get passed down to the consumer are bad things?


We know why, they are nothing but hypocrites. They just do as Fox news tells them to, believe what they tell them to. THey are incapable of thought, honesty and consistency. If the poopyhead liberals are for something, they are trained they have to oppose that.
 

More lies made up by the advocates of renewables, what a surprise. Their lies and misrepresentations are a huge reason that the public doesn't trust information about renewables and climate change.

Also consider that China is the leader in solar, and Europe also up there, and we have oil company dick sucking republicans impeding anything green that we don't have the capabilities that they have in China and Europe. OUr companies likely need that. Do we even have any solar panel manufacturing here?

Some, but some have been put out of business by China's unfair trade practices.
 
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